1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Japan 2013/2014 epic planning thread!

Discussion in 'Japan' started by tr+h, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. MarkGC

    MarkGC One of Youse Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    1,690
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    Just to make matters more difficult, have a look at Naeba, big hotel at base with an interlinked resort (Kagura) by way fo a 5.5km gondola. Also easier access that shink gets you closer than the Nagano one does.

    That's our plan for this year anyway...
     
    #151 MarkGC, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  2. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Well I get cabin fever with Shiga after six or seven days but as I said I have to stick to groomers.

    Percentages sound right. You can stay put in Shiga. Word of warning tho the food can be a bit expensive because the choice of restaurants is limited compared to, say, Hakuba.



     
  3. Tobey

    Tobey Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for throwing a spanner in the works [​IMG]

    I like the idea of it being a purpose built ski resort and how close to tokyo it is...

    Will keep on researching!
     
    #153 Tobey, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  4. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,802
    Likes Received:
    9,255
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Can't say I have ever done it myself but don't think it should be a problem especially if travelling in unreserved car and doing it on the same day. Only the seat reservations specify date/time and they are on a separate piece of paper anyway.

    Otherwise if not sure just buy a ticket to the first destination and another when required for the final one.
     
    #154 Heinz, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  5. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Don't you surrender your ticket at the turnstile?
     
  6. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    That's MarkGC for ya. He really wants you to be the guinea pig and go there and find out everything for us.

    [​IMG]
     
    #156 JoeKing, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  7. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Anyone hedging bets of accom price hikes in light of the weak Yen?

    Can we/should we name and shame them?

    Or do you think it's acceptable for them to cash in on what's been an awful recession.

    In two minds. What do you think?
     
  8. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,802
    Likes Received:
    9,255
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Thinking, trying to recall... I've normally had a JR pass so not used the turnstiles much. I think for a completed journey, you could be right. In this case it wouldn't be completed though so you should get it back.

    But on consideration it may be safer in any case to get separate tickets - cost should be the same. Either get both at ticket office at starting point explaining plan or just buy individually from vending machine when required.
     
    #158 Heinz, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  9. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    But the reason I posted is because I remember getting into strife by not collecting my ticket -as- I made my way through the turnstile.

    I would speculate that the ticket is printed there your progress and would still allow further travel if you paid for that journey. On the same day of course.

    Don't know.

    Paging Sandy.
     
  10. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    Both Hakuba & Myoko require bus/car. Hakuba has drop off/pick up with some hotels, which makes it easy. Nozawa has no such problem.
    The idea that Nozawa is only good for a a short add on for a couple of days is not correct IMO. There is a lot of terrain that you discover the longer you are there. And it often gets HUGE amounts of snow that doesn't generally hit Hakuba unless it's at Cortina. Myoko often gets even more.
     
    #160 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  11. MarkGC

    MarkGC One of Youse Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    1,690
    Location:
    Northern NSW
    More than happy to take on that job [​IMG]

    I assume ski.com will raise some sort of levy, which will be used for my research. Then only snow gods like Sandy, Heinz and Carveman would be able to question my advice. [​IMG]
     
    #161 MarkGC, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  12. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense!!!
    The local Japanese wouldn't even know that the Aussie $ is strengthening, to even think about putting prices up. There is no inflation here in Japan, so this just won't happen.....
     
    #162 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  13. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    You location is essential at Hakuba if you don't have a car.
    I usually suggest the cluster of hotels near the Sakka end of Happo. It's near the Happo Sakka lifts, and it's the start of a shuttle bus run to 47 & Iwatake, so you get a seat.
     
    #163 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  14. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,802
    Likes Received:
    9,255
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Yes, I think that would be the case. You should have got the ticket back.

    But the more I think about, I think Mark is better off just getting individual tickets for each leg.
     
    #164 Heinz, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  15. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    I think I understand.

    But the Aussie lodge owners and other proprietors over there...

    Would be nice to be re-assured. That's all I'm really asking. Got a ski partner who would not like to discover he's been cheated, tis all.

    But you're probably right. Paranoia. Good, healthy paranoia.
     
    #165 JoeKing, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  16. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Yep. That way you're covered if you happen to get monstered by the goons on the train.
     
    #166 JoeKing, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  17. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    That map is probably misleading you. You can see all those lifts at the bottom, but they are actually FOUR base areas, spread across maybe 3km. From the Olympic sign to the nearest lift is up hill and about 1km.

    47 & Goryu and really two parts of the same mountain. Happo One is huge, and probably just a bit bigger than Nozawa. None of them area similar to each other.
     
    #167 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  18. loklok

    loklok One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,287
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Perth, far from the snow
    When we were in Niseko this January, there was a mix up with our Pension accommodation, so we ended up re-booking at the last minute in Udelka apartment. This sleeps about 10, so it might be too pricey for you. But it was *very* comfortable, full kitchen, multiple bathrooms, etc. As has been mentioned before, the lower village in Hirafu is very convenient. CLose to shops, close to restaurants, bars, and of course the classic "Yukoro" Onsen. Niseko village has plenty of souvenir shops, and the adjacent Kutchan town can offer you a slice of Japanese life (walk around, see the Sake brewery, the museum, the shops & restaurants - even a sordid pachinko parlour).

    As for the snow around Niseko - others will sell that better than I.
     
    #168 loklok, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  19. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    The areas around the Prince Hotel (Prince west is cheaper!! [​IMG] ) has the longest runs, apart from the run off above the top of the egg shaped gondola(Off Higashidateyama down to Takamagahara Mammoth. If you're a skier, then the Prince end all the way out to the end at Okushigakogen has the best powder IMO. And in any case, if you're there during the week when Shiga's practically deserted, you'll find powder just about anywhere is there's been a dump.
     
    #169 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  20. Olgreg

    Olgreg One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,651
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    Location:
    Dolans Bay
    Only problem with lower Hirafu village is getting on the shuttle in the mornings, esp with kids. The early ones fill up on the first few stops and walking uphill on snow on ice as a family is painful. Mid to higher village is better.
     
  21. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    Shiga doesn't have longer runs than Happo or 47, for example. You can do Happo top to bottom (about 1100m vert), but the biggest continuous drop at Shiga is about 600m.

    However, it ticks most of your ski in/out boxes at the Prince.
    I wouldn't say 30% advanced, maybe a bit less.
     
    #171 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  22. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    Naeba has the same Prince Hotel ease as Shiga Kogen. Easier to get to, but more crowds on the weekend. Nice though.
     
    #172 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  23. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Yep. I agonise about which of the two to stay. For some reason I settle on the East because I trust the ski hire, the gondola on a crap day is good for getting organised after a long night boozing on the crap wine. (yes, really)

    And the bubble chair lift near the hotel is good also.

    I'm not convinced that the West is that much cheaper though.
     
    #173 JoeKing, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  24. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    This is true. If you stay at the Prince at Shiga, you've got a 10 min walk to find other places to eat, or pay 4000 yen for the Prince buffet.
    The Prince at Naeba has more in hotel eating options at cheaper prices.
     
    #174 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  25. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    No. The "awful recession" is not that awful, and has been the same for a long time in Japan, so there is no change [​IMG]
     
    #175 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  26. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Good to know. Hey, how 'bout a TR on Naeba since it's so obscure, mate?
     
    #176 JoeKing, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  27. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Yeah. I cringed at using that word for want of a better word.
     
    #177 JoeKing, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  28. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    If you buy individual tickets for each leg, it costs more.

    If I recall correctly, go to the JR travel office, and tell them you will stop off along the way, and they will give you one fare ticket, and different express seat tickets, which costs the same as traveling in one hit. Also, iirc, you get an extra discount if you travel more than 500km. ALSO, go into the View Plaza travel centre, as they will have special JR train & accomm deals.
     
    #178 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  29. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    72,779
    Likes Received:
    16,614
    Location:
    wollongong
    prices havent changed in the last nine years I've been going
     
    #179 Donza, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  30. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    I was getting (from the Shiga Prince Hotel website), 2 nights twin share for 25,000 (about 6250yen pppn). No food.
     
    #180 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  31. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,802
    Likes Received:
    9,255
    Location:
    Adelaide
    and not much for a couple of decades prior to that.
     
    #181 Heinz, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  32. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    I had 7 nights @ $1500 /w breaky. Paid when Yen was 78.

    [​IMG]
     
    #182 JoeKing, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  33. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    Have a look at wikiski, and I've post info on both:

    http://wikiski.com/wiki/index.php/Kagura
    http://wikiski.com/wiki/index.php/Naeba

    I should update some of that.... for example, the peak chair at Kagura doesn't open until the last week in February.
     
    #183 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  34. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    Hmmmm..... Prince East is exy!!! [​IMG]
     
    #184 Sandy, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  35. JoeKing

    JoeKing Old n' Thrusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    24,319
    Likes Received:
    11,605
    Location:
    a galaxy far, far away.
    Hey buddy, I'm worth it!
     
  36. Tobey

    Tobey Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    #186 Tobey, Apr 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  37. mauricem

    mauricem Addicted

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    700
    Likes Received:
    206
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast

    Prince prices change pretty quickly, 11,000yen per room was on offer for a while but they bump it up for weekends holidays even on week long bookings.

    Hotel Kuhls was a good option at Ichinose, we were the only westerners there for a week. Reasonable rate for full board and they did a free transfer from Nozawa and discounted our bill at checkout time.

    A couple of nights up at Yokoteyama staying at the bakery is a worthwhile experience, its at 2300m and a very unique place, transfers up the hill via skidoo was a blast.
     
    #187 mauricem, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  38. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    It was something like 11,000yen week days, 14,000 weekend.
    Prices(to book them) were stable right through Dec/Jan, if they were available.
     
    #188 Sandy, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  39. tr+h

    tr+h One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Perth,wa
    Can someone tell me if there is any truth to the rumor that locals who make bookings at hotels or resorts get better deals than Aussies booking from home?

    And why can't I make any hotel bookings for January yet?
     
  40. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    25,802
    Likes Received:
    9,255
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Many Japanese hotel booking sites only allow booking a couple of months in advance.
     
    #190 Heinz, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  41. BobGnarly

    BobGnarly One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2012
    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    2,064
    Location:
    Nagano
    There is lots of truth to that, and yes its generally maximum 3 months in advance for bookings
     
    #191 BobGnarly, Apr 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  42. smitty484

    smitty484 Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    21,994
    Likes Received:
    1,327
    Location:
    London, previously Brisbane
    depends how the bookings are done. if through aussie travel agent, costs are usually higher than if you can book directly with owners.
     
  43. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,095
    Likes Received:
    2,422
    Location:
    赤倉
    Basically the booking system is different, especially if you are wanting to book that far ahead. Many hotels won't take bookings for January until October or even November. The Japanese, both owners and visitors, are used to doing things this way. In the bigger cities it's less problematic. As for cheaper, not always. When we travel to other parts of Japan both my wife and I look into prices. Sometimes I get a cheaper price, sometimes my wife does. I'd say it works about 70/30 in my favour.
     
  44. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    72,779
    Likes Received:
    16,614
    Location:
    wollongong
    Aussie travel agents.. Will pass on price increases..always
    yet they will not pass on price decreases.

    Due to Forex variances.
     
  45. conradskis

    conradskis One of Us

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,237
    Likes Received:
    32
    Yes, I don't think it's bias by the hotels, but depends on who you're purchasing through.

    As mentioned above Japanese hotels normally don't officially open their bookings more than a couple of months ahead. However their rooms are often available through third-party agents. And sometimes if you contact the hotel directly they will be prepared to reserve a room for you even if their online booking system does not indicate that one is available.

    Before a recent trip to Japan I wanted to reserve a room in a Kyoto hotel a few months in advance. The hotel site indicated no availability; a variety of online agents indicated availability with prices from about $120 to over $300 for a night. I contacted the hotel directly and they were happy to reserve a room for about $100/night. Nothing to do with being a local, just going through the cheapest channel.
     
  46. tr+h

    tr+h One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    377
    Location:
    Perth,wa
    I have had a look and I can book through Expedia 7months out, where I can't on the hotels own website. Just have to wait 2 months and then I will start booking
     
  47. blutek

    blutek One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Messages:
    2,179
    Likes Received:
    315
    Location:
    central coast
    The Japanese language version of hotel booking websites (eg: Rakuten) often have a lot more plans available than the English version for the same hotels. Some of these plans may be cheaper, but are difficult for us to use, therefore we may not get the best rate.
     
    #197 blutek, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2013
  48. Pat42

    Pat42 One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes Received:
    587
    Anyone have any opinion as to Myoko versus Naeba/Kagura, trying to decide which one to go to after nozawa.

    Myoko seems to offer up more resorts and maybe more snow, but also im assuming will have more aussies than naeba/kagura. Terrain also doesnt seem to be that steep at myoko?

    Naeba looks nice and steep but prob not be able to ride it due to strict patrol? Kagura seems to have less strict patrol but seems flatter, also would prob have less westerners.

    Both seem to have pretty good backcountry options.

    Would love to hear from someone who has been to both.

    Rabbids trip report makes both of them sound pretty good!
     
  49. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 1998
    Messages:
    65,084
    Likes Received:
    13,042
    Location:
    Yokohama, Japan, Melb. Expat.
    First question, how do you intend to get from Nozawa to Naeba ? It would take maybe 4-5 hours, while you could leave Nozawa at 8am and be at Myoko by 9am.

    I've been to both, more at Kagura than Myoko
     
  50. Pat42

    Pat42 One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2008
    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes Received:
    587
    We will have a car, which i am guessing would be pretty pointless in naeba/kagura and more usefull in myoko for accessing other resorts.