Separate names with a comma.
We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics.
NOTE: This notice may be closed.
Discussion in 'Japan' started by Scoober, Aug 17, 2020.
Had a look at the location, is that train line under the properties?
Yes just have to drill a shaft to get you own shinkansen station!
I think you might feel some regular rumbles every time a shink goes through!
This is not a bad one for 8m. Built in 2011 but empty since 2017 so basically only 6 years old. Slap bang in the middle for distance to Madarao, Nozawa and Togari. 9 minutes by car to Iiyama station. The big plus is that you don't have to clear the snow off the roof. Large block though (must be a field at the back) so you'd need someone to keep the grass down.
Haha, about 80% route of new Shinkansen between Tokyo and Osaka under construction now is underground (it will run at 500km/h and it will be only about an hour between Tokyo and Osaka). Some experts were saying that JR choose the routes which have stable geological features, so in a way, your property being on a Shinkansen route might mean your property is where the ground condition is good
I think that map is a bit misleading as, so far as I can tell, it does not go to Nagano city. And if this article is correct it will be quite a while beofre it opens:
I think this gives a better map
All the names in the map are prefectures, not cities (so Nagano means Nagano Prefecture, not Nagano city).
As to the governor of Shizuoka Prefecture, it is widely said he wants JR to make a Shinkansen station at Shizuoka Airport, so he keeps insisting "We won't let JR to dig our land (unless JR will make a new Shikansen station for us)". Anyway, it won't be delayed much in that most Japanese people are against the governor.
I'll write about Shimukappu village this time. Shimukappu village is a village where there is Tomamu. Tomamu is a very well organized four season resort. In Japan, there are 1,741 cities and villages. Among all 1,741 cities and villages, Shimukappu is having the biggest population growth. Actually, they've had the biggest population growth in 3 years in a raw. Since Tomamu was bought by a Chinese company, Tomamu and the village has been becoming international. And now, Shimukappu village has the highest foreigner's ratio. The image below says, the number of foreigners were 56 in 2013, it grew up to 329 in 2018 and the growth rate is 487.50%. 22.69% of the people in Shimukappu were foreigners in 2018. So, 2020 before COVID-19 hit may have been nearly 30%.
In Tomamu resort, there is an apartment that consist of 305 rooms. It seems only 2 out of 305 rooms are for sale now and it means it's easy to resell, I guess. Both of the two rooms are 12.5 million Yen, a lot more expensive than Yuzawa's ones, but you can use it for Airbnb, etc(they clean the rooms on behalf of you, of course it will cost, not for free, though), you can resell it easily. Then, owning an apartment in Tomamu can be better for some people. That said, I know nothing about real estate market around Tomamu, so you should research by yourself.
The link : http://fudosan.cbiz.ne.jp/detailPage/sale/1074/318/?allsup=on&prop=1&area=asahikawa&rdt=off
All videos below are from Tomamu's official Youtube channel.
Near our lodge in Urabandai Highland, this 46 year old 6LDK family use house was for sale at about 12 million Yen last year. Now it was renovated and opened as an Airbnb lodge. It's surrounded by beautiful lakes and it's between Nekoma and Gran Deco. The highland is very snowy, so it's nicely covered with deep snow in winter. I think seeing such Airbnb lodges can give you some ideas of renovating a family use house to become an Airbnb lodge.
This link has 48 pictures of the Airbnb lodge. It was a family use house. Sometimes those pictures help me get new ideas.
This video was filmed this summer near our lodge. Where they are hiking is used for snowshoe hiking tours too in winter.
In Japan, official land prices are released twice every year. The newest land prices were released yesterday. The land prices are the land prices as of July 1st, so they are the land prices after COVID-19. Japan's land price dropped for the first time in the last 5 years because of COVID-19. However, Niseko's land price (Hirafu Zaka) has risen by 29.2% even amid COVID-19. The growth rate of Niseko (Hairafu Zaka) is the third. No.1 and No.2 growth rates are the lands in Okinawa (Southernmost island prefecture of Japan).
Same apartment inside Tomamu, but a bit more expensive.
Is there a link to the official land prices?
Echoland in Hakuba was in the winner's circle to as I understand it.
Is this what you're after?
Thanks so much! mmm another distraction from what I am meant to be doing. lol!
There are 3 official land prices in Japan, 路線価, 公示地価 and 基準地価, but they are for taxation, and it's not telling us how much the actual land you are interested in is now. It can tell us the land price of the area is rising / dropping recently though.
Great info here, thank you to everyone who contributed so far.
In Urabandai highland, there are numerous lakes and ponds. I noticed a 6LDK house by one of lakes that can be used as small lodge business is for sale now. The 29 year old 6LDK house is by Lake Sohara (the lake below).
It's 15 million Yen now (I'd say the price is negotiable). It's just between Nekoma and Gran Deco (Alts Bandai, Inawashiro, Minowa, etc are also short drive).
和室 = Japanese room. 洋室 = Western room.
Lake Sohara in summer
When it comes to 基準地価 (one of the official land prices disclosed this week), the land price of Hakuba village rose by 15.4% compared to last year, which is very impressive, considering COVID-19. And, it's the first time for Hakuba's land price to rise since 1991 (so, the first time in 29 years). Local media are reporting investment from Asia such as China and Singapore have been increasing not only Australia. Local media are reporting the number of foreign tourists are small because of COVID-19 but investment to Hakuba hasn't slowed down.
Yes, Echoland's land price has risen by 30,3%, which is the 4th biggest growth rate after a land in Kutchan (Niseko region). 1st = a land in Okinawa pref. 2nd = a land in Okinawa pref. 3rd = a land in Kutchan (Niseko region) and 4th = Echoland (= a land in Hakuba village).
I can see so many great opportunities to pick up a good value lodge in an area that hasn't blown up with tourists yet, ideally an area with multiple resorts close by, but most importantly one good resort within short walk, must be popular with Japanese in weekends so less chance of shutting down.
Most lodges in these areas don't even have websites, at least not in english, so a big plus is having the lodge even with basic SEO at the top of the google list. Airbnb etc too, probably the lodge would be the only one on there in english. One thing these hotel booking websites do is push those searching to nearby spots if the area they search is fully booked. Having a famous resort not too far would help people find you.
From my research, in an upcoming area, it would be 99.9% essential to have a bilingual local to help with the setup and ongoing support if not already Japanese speaking. If done correctly, owners should be able to provide personalised services from transport to ski rentals and meals (or to stay sane, drop guests at a nearby local spot, they can taxi back). Working with local guides/instructors to provide packages at better prices, more unique and 'Japanese experience' than the already famous resorts for foreigners.
If it works, obviously a lot of work, as in 7 days a week, 6am until late. If the business fails, with a small investment, skiing uncrowded powder all winter is the worst case scenario, and snow clearing.
Every thing you are saying Jacksong is pretty much on the ball and was my way of thinking 15 years ago. The only thing that I would add to that is you do not want to invest in a property that is possibly going to depreciate in price. I was quite confident in the Hakuba product and bought a solid building in what is evident by recent stats as one of the fastest growing areas in all of Japan. There are many quality lodges available throughout Japan but location is ordinary. With the growth of Hakuba as an international destination comes with it a sense of community where foreigners are very welcome to reside. That is not the case everywhere. In my daughters class at school there are 20% mixed kids. This is rare in Japan.
location, location, location (or just stick with holidays imo)
Perfect day here in Hakuba. Off to climb mount Jigatake at 2666 mts. Wagging the day with my daughter. Pics tomorrow
A bit more about the new land prices in and around Hakuba village (one of official land prices released this week), the land price of Otari ( = the village where there are Hakuba Cortina, etc) dropped by 1.74%. The land price around Hakuba station, the land price of Iimori station (near Hakuba Goryu), etc haven't risen. It seems the lands between Happo One and Hakuba 47 have have risen quite a lot (by 15 - 30%).
You often say "location location location". I'd say it's a very basic fact that everyone knows. The reality is, they can really buy the best location properties?. I doubt many people here can do. If there are a lot of ski lodges very short walk to ski slopes (or short drive), most people will choose them to stay at, not lodges which are 20 min drive to ski slopes. Plus, if you want to own "good properties in good locations" in Niseko, Hakuba, etc, there are English speaking websites, which are a lot better than this thread, so you don't need this thread basically.
For "serious" lodge business and capital gain, location is quite important. However, Type A lodges are costly basically. I'd say the minimum price is 30 - 40 million Yen. If a person can invest 30 - 40 million Yen in a property abroad, I guess he / she has 60 - 80 million Yen in his / her bank account already. Not many people on this forum have that amount of cash, I guess.
For vacation use (family use) + minimum business, location doesn't matter much and the cheap price is more important. I've been posting information about Type B properties. Cheap usually means foreigners haven't invested much there yet. In that sense, you might win first-mover advantage. Some Japanese people whose English are a lot worse than mine are organizing backcountry tours in Tohoku in recent years. If you can organize the same tours, etc, you might be able to earn in that there aren't fluent English speaking guides.
As the snow in Hakuba has been a mixed bag in recent seasons, I wonder if it's a worry for the owners there? Up north in Honshu I believe is colder and could offer more snow security in the upcoming years?
I can think of a few ski resorts where there is only one foreign owned lodge at a resort at the base of the lifts that seem to be doing well. I guess it was a big risk at first and maybe took a while to establish?
If you buy where you are surrounded by neighbours, I can see there can definitely be issues. Even in well known resorts this can happen I'm sure. could buying a standalone lodge with a bit of land/privacy benefit?
I think in the last 2 or 3 years there are more and more people renting cars and venturing away from the famous resorts. It's a great thing, I hope more ski resorts in Japan can stay open.
I wonder, if you buy a decent property for cheap and you can fill the rooms for even half the season, surely it would not take too many years to pay the place off? Living near a quieter group of resorts will give a great lifestyle option for a skier who enjoys quiet slopes and is prepared to dive into Japanese countryside life. Perhaps someone who has already visited Japan many times and enjoys to be away from the famous resorts.
If going for investment property, It may be a bit late for somewhere like Hakuba (close to a resort) as you mentioned the price increase is one of the highest in Japan? Would need a lot more capital to start something compared to 15 years ago.
I can see why people like Hakuba to live, especially as a year round with family, international community. It's also so beautiful. However, as places become more westernised, travellers returning to Japan are noticeably starting to look at new options which brings back the feeling places like Hakuba or Niseko offered before they became more international.
I think there are really good options for someone brave who wants a mix of ski/lifestyle and has a bit of money to spare, someone who finds a place they love and wants to ski there for a few months a year, and believes other people may like to visit that area with perhaps the chance of more popularity in the future. Or just go on holidays like you say.
All the talk in this thread is food for thought , but as I have stated here previously just because you get a cheap building in decent condition doesn't give you a bank cheque to success .
The amount of work looking after guests is huge . If you are not a people person able to relate to all guests in a VERY SMALL WINDOW of time in a season , the returns are not worth the amount of hours you invest weekly .
I have seen some lodges bought cheaply by expats , and to be honest I don't know how they could actually charge the prices they do .
Of course there are other operators that work on scale which spreads the risk , but this thread is about buying a cheap property and running a lodge yourself .
This 3LDK lodge at the base of Appi Kogen ski resort is for sale at 11 million Yen now. The lodge was registered onto a real estate agency's website yesterday, so it's a very new information. Because advanced skiers / snowboarders are coming to Hachimantai, a Chinese company bought Appi and an international school (which will have quite a lot of rich Asian kids) is opening in 2022, I feel it's getting more difficult to find very cheap properties at the base of Appi Kogen. 3LDK = 11 million Yen is the cheapest lodge that I can find now. The image below was filmed last month (2020 September). It is 30 years old. Season tickets are given to all lodge owners there, so you'll get season tickets for free.
This is a video that a Japanese lodge owner in Appi Kogen uploaded. Many of the guests are from abroad (I can differentiate Japanese and the other Asian people, not always, though)
As I repeatedly said, the properties that I've been posting here are not for capital gain, but I assume it's very easy to resell the property and you might get some capital gain (who knows), considering it's already very difficult to find a 3LDK lodge around 10 million Yen at the base of Appi Kogen.
There are English speaking real estate agencies. They are basically targeting at (very) rich foreigners. This one in Myoko is 120 million Yen. The link https://www.solidrealestatejapan.com/properties/incredible-ski-resort-hotel-onsen-myoko-ikenotaira/
I think original question was not about running a lodge but just buying a house to have fun with? Ski yourself, share with family and friends etc
With the whole WFH situation this might become more popular too.. Nothing really beats have an hour as lifts open before starting your meeting/work.
I have a question though, what about just buying a derelict place, demolishing it and having one of those house construction companies build you a place from a catalog?
In Hakuba somewhere close to the lakes would be cool, could come in summer for a week or two. Mountains, swimming, fishing etc
Personally if I ever did something like that I think I would try to do it in Nozawa. Such a fun town to spend few weeks in and Haus St Anton is probably my favourite restaurant ever in any ski/resort town anywhere
It is definitely an option. The main reason is cost and hassle. It can be 2 million yen for example to demolish a typical old wooden house as I believe Ramenman mentioned earlier. If it's concrete it will be much more expensive.
Let's just say the property + land is 3 million yen, then you pay 2 million to demolish, you have an empty lot for 5 million, then it costs 15 million+ I have no idea on a prefab home price, but guessing it would be more expensive. Depending where you buy, that 20 million could get you a decent mid sized lodge or architecturally designed cabin that is built with high quality wood (although probably not great insulation). This type of property probably cost at least 5 times the asking price to build originally, and to rebuild a similar property would be even more expensive today, plus most likely it's a one off with potentially a lot of character compared to a prefab. Do a minimum reno then move in it straight away.
I think the demolish/rebuild is great option for a family who live year round in a place and plan to stay long term. Everything is nice and new. If it's just to use for a short season, an older place with renovation is much better value. Can make do with some of the old features and next to no hassle.
I'm curious about this, on one hand you say the returns aren't worth the hours put in, but on the other hand, you say you're not sure how expats charge such high prices. Maybe they need to charge higher prices to make it worth it for the hours invested?
For sure, you would hope someone investing in hospitality would have a passion for it, not just a grumpy guy who wants to ski all day. Worse case scenario for those who have a bit of spare cash to spend, you get to ski for 3 months a year and you get to own a decent lodge at a great ski resort in Japan. Can you see potential in an investment, or self-run lodge in some resorts like Appi as Ramenman mentioned above? for around $150,000 AUD it's not a huge risk for some people. I think the key is to buy in a place you love, then it's not a burden to visit your own place if the business side does not work out as planned. In 10 years so much can change, ski resorts can go from backwater in debt to big $ chinese owned and busy with foreign visitors like Madarao. Seems like Appi already has new investment in the resort.
I think that one is sold. It's a quality building but had quite an odd and chequered history.
Good luck getting in there at a decent price now. You're at least 6 years too late.
Something like this ?
There can also be issues rebuilding something the size of the existing building if you demolish. Sometimes the allowed building to land ratio has been changed. This is one reason some places are not demolished but renovated instead. But some renos are effectively a complete rebuild
Looks like a great project, Where is it?
Edit: Just found it on google, beautiful location, good luck with it.
Here in Japan, the population of 15 years - 65 years old are called 生産年齢人口 = working age population. The image below is the working age population growth ranking (between 2015 and 2020). Among all 1,741 areas of Japan, Shimukappu village has the biggest growth rate of 53.86% (=Green) thanks to Tomamu. The second is also a ski resort village = Akaigawa village, where there is Kiroro. A Thai company bought Kiroro and they've been investing quite a lot. Thanks to Kiroro, the working age population of Akaigawa village has grown by 25.04% (=Blue) and the growth rate is the second highest of 1,741 areas of Japan. Most other areas belong to mega cities such as Tokyo and Osaka except some popular ski resort villages in Hokkaido. Rusutsu village is the fourth with 19.52% growth rate. Kutchan (a village in Niseko region) is 13th (the growth rate is 11.49%, less than half of Akaigawa).
Hokkaido is a very unique island especially if seen from 2 billion Asian people. In East Asia + ASEAN, there are two climate groups. Group A : Hot and Humid = ASEAN countries, southern China, Taiwan, etc. Group B: Cold and Dry = Northern China, Mongolia, Korean Peninsula, etc. Cool summer + cold winter + abundant water all year around is very unique seen from the 2 billion people living in the region (East Asia + ASEAN). It has Kiroro, it's close to Sapporo, Otaru, Niseko, Rusutsu, etc as well and it's been reported that Asian companies & people are buying lands there. So, properties there will be easy to resell and you might expect some capital gain (but who knows). This house is in Akaigawa village and it was renovated last month, so the condition is very good. It has a mini farm too. 19.8 million Yen.
The link : https://www.athome.co.jp/kodate/6968539813/
Kiroro's official promotion video of 2020 - 2021 season (By "Mint tours")
A video filmed at Kiroro / in Akaigawa village during 2019 - 2020 season
Yu Kiroro (a luxury ski in ski out condominium which opened last year)
I love to see how it willl look after a full renovation. These are before and after a full renovation
As I mentioned in this thread last month, there are some properties that can not be rebuilt but can be renovated. It happens because of two reasons (or might be more reasons). Reason A : Related laws have changed and you can't rebuild it or build a new property in the land any longer. Reason B : The land has been newly registered as a prefectural / national park. Those properties can be hidden gems in that those properties tend to be insanely cheap even if the location is great. As I wrote in this thread last month, Lodge Noel inside Ishiuchi Maruyama (Yuzawa) is for sale only at 3 million Yen. Under a current law, you can NOT build a lodge in the land any longer, however, you can renovate it. For some people, properties like Lodge Noel can be ideal, IMO.
A new chondola at Ishiuchi Maruyama.
In the same area (about 5 min drive to Oku Shiga Kogen), hundreds of lots for lodges were made. Most of them are unused without any properties on, which means, I assume the bubble economy burst & ski boom ended before investments came there. The lands there are "almost" for free. This is the lot map. The biggest number is 436, so 436 lots were made there?. A Hong Kong based company bought Oku Shiga Kogen last October (or November). Some Chinese will buy the lands there?
Some houses / lodges there are for sale. This is one of them. 6.5 million Yen (I'd say it's negotiable and less than 5 million is possible). The property is very rare in that it's at 1,500m asl. It's one of the highest altitude properties on Japanese ski resort mountains that you can buy. About 5 min drive to Oku Shiga Kogen (About 15 min walk)
The link : https://www.sys-ken.co.jp/fudosan/sel/detail_21041.aspx
Bit of coin spent on that reno
Ramenman are the annual ownership fees at Shiga still really expensive as I recall they are? I cant remember off the top of my head what they were but when we were looking over there I do recall it being quite expensive.
I think it depends on which land of Shiga Kogen you are mentioning. As to the land above (Oku Shiga Kogen's lots for sale), they are cheap. According to the real estate agency, the annual land management fee is 44,000 Yen. There are a few other small fees called 地代 = 5,777 Yen per year and 消防負担費 = 9,000 Yen per year. So, the total annual fee is 44,000 + 5,777 + 9,000 = 58,777 Yen.
Near the lodge, this ski-in ski-out 2LDK house is for sale at 6 million Yen now. It's a ski-in ski-out (1 min walk to a lift station of Kijimadaira ski resort). The condition is good, no need for renovation at all. It's inside Kijimadaira ski resort and it means it's very close to a few other ski resorts on Mt.Kosha (the mountain has or had 5 ski resorts) too. It's roughly 20 min drive to Nozawa Onsen, 20 min drive to Ryuo, 30 min drive to Madarao, 40 min drive to Shiga Kogen and 40 min drive to Myoko.
The link : https://reson-ltd.co.jp/database/database.cgi?cmd=dp&num=856&Tfile=Data
Kijimadaira ski resort is relatively big with the vertical of 700+ meters. However, not sure if they can survive. I mean, there are too many ski resorts in the region and Kijimadaira is not a special ski resort for the region, which means, it's more likely to get closed(I've seen a lot of ski resorts have survived because they are "special" ski resorts for the local villages). Even if the ski resort gets closed, Nozawa, Madarao, Ryuo, Shiga Kogen, Myoko, etc are "relatively" close, so the location is good if you can get a good condition house at 5 million Yen (it's 6 million Yen, but the owner saying 6 million Yen means you should try to get it at 5 million Yen or cheaper)
Someone start a new thread, with title/subject they want, and tell me the Post #'s that you want moved.
Content moved to the new thread:
Public auction is one of the cheapest ways to buy properties in Japan. Near our lodge in Urabandai Highland, I've noticed a very new house is on a public auction now. It's a 4 years old house. I remember a Japanese major home builder "Daiwa House" were building and selling houses there and it's one of the houses. If I remember correctly, it was about 30+ million Yen. Now, it's only 4.91 million Yen. It's almost new but only 4.91 million Yen!
The link : https://xn--55q36pba3495a.com/auction/173988.html
Better hope that dam never bursts or overflows.
Just clicked on the Google map on the page and it put the location outside of this obviously abandoned hotel
And it's 3 min walking distance to this new pricey hotel too (it's about 70,000 Yen per night) https://hotelliaalto.com/