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Resource Japan Snow Country Realestate 2020 to 2070

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Scoober, Aug 17, 2020.

  1. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Would a real estate developer not be completely open and honest about all aspects of living in their developments (tic). I agree that knowing what winter is like where the house is would be very important. It's a quarter of the year after all. Does look like a lovely area in green season.
     
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  2. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    When it comes to Daiwa House's properties, they clear snow on behalf of you. They have a lodge for staff in the center of each of their development areas, making the staff stay. The staff are like concierges supporting the people living there. They have 14 similar projects in Japan. 3 of them are close to our properties, so I saw them clearing snow often. The image below is the plots they have in Hachimantai's project (in front of Mt.Iwate). There are about 400 lands and Red ones are for sale now. Anyway, no one buys a property in a ski region without visiting the site in winter:p Edit: By the way, the 4.8 million Yen house is NOT inside Daiwa House's development area, but very close.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. skichanger

    skichanger A Local

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    I must be no one.
     
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  4. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Haha, I should have written "Almost":p I think there are two exceptions. If you are living abroad, choosing a season to visit might not be easy. And if you get interested in May, you might not be able to wait till winter because somebody might buy the property before winter.

    Edit: Another exceptional case is, if you are very rich, you can fail.
     
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  5. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This week, NHK was reporting that Oku-Tama region has been getting popular. People renovate Japanese old houses in Okutama and open as Ryokans. Even amid this Corona era = 2020 winter, those Ryokans are booked out now. NHK say it's mainly people in their 30's and 40's working in Central Tokyo who are booking those Ryokans. I think it's a good sign for ski resort villages that relatively young Japanese people have started rating rural mountain side villages highly recently. I mean, Oku-Tama is the westernmost area of Tokyo being surrounded by mountains (the tallest mountain of Tokyo is about 2000m). What average ski resort villages have and Oku-Tama has are similar. 1:Beautiful mountain sceneries. 2:Good to hike. 3:Good mountain streams for trout & Ayu fishing. 4:Farming experiences(there must be some more). The differences are, Oku-Tama has a better accessiblity from Tokyo while Oku-Tama doesn't have a ski resort. The image below is the map of Tokyo Prefecture and 奥多摩 is Oku-Tama. By the way, Oku of Oku-Tama and Oku of Oku-Shiga Kogen are the same. The Kanji 奥 = Oku means like "Deep" or "Further away". Oku-Tama is further away from Central Tokyo, so it was named Oku-Tama and Oku-Shiga Kogen is far seen from Yudanaka village, so it was named Oku-Shiga Kogen.
    [​IMG]


    This is one of Ryokans in Oku-Tama region which is popular recently(it used to be a house and it was renovated to open as a Ryokan). NHK was reporting the population of the village is only 700 with mainly old people, and they were worrying that the village might disappear from maps. However, they've been working jointly and they've started seeing bright sides such as young people are coming both as tourists and to work in the tourism industry in the village. The Ryokan is in Kosuge village. Kosuge village is on the border of Tokyo Pref and Yamanashi Pref. Even if it's in Yamanashi Pref side officially, we call the region "Oku-Tama".



    About Oku-Tama region.



    By the way, Oku-Tama is where I learnt mountain stream fishing for mainly trouts (rainbow trout, and some other trouts) and Ayu. This was filmed in Oku-Tama.
     
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  6. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is a property uploaded onto Yuzawa village's Akiya Bank a week ago (December 18th, 2020). It's been used for a lodging business now, 10 bed rooms, (partially) renovated in 2016 and 2017 and only 550m to Naeba. The price 5 million Yen sounds super cheap. It's been used for a lodging business and it means the lodge has related licenses(lodging business license, restaurant license, etc), which is another good point. "Almost" no need to renovate (the condition is good). I don't understand why this property can be available at only 5 million Yen:eek:!
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    It's only 550m to Naeba ski resort.



    The link : https://livelife.town.yuzawa.lg.jp/2020/12/18/011/

    Edit: The official website of Yuzawa village's Akiya Bank surely says it's 5 million Yen, but it's too good to be true. The owner wants 50 million Yen, but somehow typo happened:confused:?
     
    #756 Ramenman, Dec 25, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2020
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  7. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Nice Ryokan. I look forward to doing some Spring or autumn touring around the rural areas with my wife in the next few years.
     
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  8. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wasn't sure where to post this, but if you are looking to buy in Japan, it appears there are currently large snow drifts forming to each side of the groomed runs in this town (as at 10:30pm EST)
    https://www.stv.jp/cameraimg/asahikawa_L.jpg
     
  9. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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  10. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is the newest bus service map named "Snow Bus" of Asahikawa. The tourist destinations in the image below = Snow Bus is running now. Some amount of people don't like to drive abroad, especially on snowy roads(If you own a property here, not visiting here as a tourist, you will need to drive, though). Asahikawa airport was renewed 1 or 2 years ago in the wake of rapidly increasing number of tourists from abroad (especially from Asia) and more international flights were coming to Asahikawa by COVID-19 hit. After COVID-19 time, a lot of them will start coming again (I assume). Flying in Asahikawa, skiing at Kamui, Pippu and Asahidake. Some might visit the popular Asahiyama zoo, then leave Asahikawa to ski at Furano, Tomamu and Sahoro. https://www.taisetsu-kamui.jp/snowbus/
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Asaikawa city is the capital of Kamikawa Sub-Prefecture, so it's a relatively big but nicely compact at the same time and I like it. Asahikawa is a capital of Sub-Prefecture, so the downtown has enough attractions but there are cheap enough properties only within 30min walk away from the downtown and it's only 20 min drive from the downtown to Asahikawa airport. This property (the link below) is about 30 min walk to Asahikawa station = the downtown. Nicely renovated and look almost new. It's 11.99 million Yen(about 12 million Yen). It's almost new (=fully renovated), 4SLDK and walking distance to the downtown of the capital of Sub-Prefacture, then I'd say 12 million Yen is reasonable. You can buy a used house at 5 million Yen and renovate by use of 5 million Yen and it might be cheaper, but considering the troublesome processes, it can be better to buy an already renovated house. Considering the location and the condition, it's a property you can relatively easily resell.

    The link of the property : https://suumo.jp/chukoikkodate/hokkaido_/sc_asahikawa/nc_91838575/
    [​IMG]

    By the way, this is about Ibaraki Airport. We own a property near Ibaraki Airport. Ibaraki to Sapporo (the domestic flight ticket) is available at 9000 Yen or even less and it's cheaper than a Shinkansen ticket between Tokyo and Osaka (not always, though). I wish it will start flying between Ibaraki and Asahikawa:p.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I know it's off topic but I was looking at properties of Central Hokkaido for my personal interest and checked the locations by use of google map. Then, I happened to find a stray cat in a picture of Pippu station in google map (Pippu station is a station near Pippu ski resort and it's very close to Asahikawa as well). The record low temperature of Asahikawa city is -41C (according to JMA). -41C, such short-haired cats can survive:eek:?.
     
    #762 Ramenman, Dec 28, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
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  13. hotsaki

    hotsaki One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Cool for cats.
     
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  14. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Now the property has been discounted to 4.98 million Yen (It was 7.5 million Yen when I first wrote)
     
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  15. Jonkl

    Jonkl Hard Yards

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    You provide such great insight into the possibly owning a ryokan or ski lodge in Japan, thank you for your contribution.
    Obviously in winter you can expect decent income, but what about during summer time in those ski mountain region, would it be sustainable, who or for what reasons would they stay at a lodge or Ryokan (for example, a lodge at the base of Furano ski field)?

    Genuinely interested in possibly owning one and moving to Japan permanently, if the business is sustainable.

    Cheers
     
  16. Hyst

    Hyst Enjoyer Ski Pass: Gold

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    Try to look around in the green season:

    https://www.shigakogen.gr.jp/green/index.html

    Have to look at a different marked.

    or look at other outdoor companies summer programs. (some foreigneres)

    Hope you have been following this thread for a long time - then you will know the difficulties.

    best first step - get married there! (but not sufficient) :D

    understand Japan. (I have not really yet - but I had never intentions to live there).
     
  17. Jonkl

    Jonkl Hard Yards

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    I haven't been following this thread at all, but the thought just came to my mind after recently seeing a video of a family in HK migrated to Japan after applying a kind of business purpose resident visa, which requires you to start a business there and have a business address, for a sum of around $200k AUD

    We always have some sort of a dream of owning a ski lodge or Ryokan in Aus or in Japan sometime in our life..haha
     
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  18. Hyst

    Hyst Enjoyer Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, I know. If only I could convince my wife I would have a small cheap ski apartment in Nagano area and stay during winter. No business -
     
  19. Jonkl

    Jonkl Hard Yards

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    Curious, how much would it cost you?
     
  20. Hyst

    Hyst Enjoyer Ski Pass: Gold

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  21. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    Any business plan should be predicated on the basis of winter trade only. Now, you might be able to build business outside of winter, but do not base any trust in that. That is just cream if it happens.

    You can of course move to an area like Hakuba or Niseko where there are some green season activities in place. However you'll pay a premium because of that.

    To make the business sustainable you have to work hard. A lot people think you a buy a lodge, whack up a shingle and website, get some bookings, give your guests some breakfast in the morning, ski all day and have a few drinks with guests at night. Easy peasy - dream lifestyle. Nothing could be further from the truth!
     
  22. Jacksong

    Jacksong Addicted

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    Good advice from M_G.

    If thinking year round business, location becomes even more important. What may be great location in winter, even ski-in ski-out could be unpopular for guests in summer if far from summer activities/restaurants etc.
     
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  23. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have never recommended here that people would start "a serious business" by buying a property in a ski resort village. I think it's better to start "as a hobby" (by spending the amount of money you can lose).

    That said, if you want guests in green season as well, you must target Asian people, especially from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore and South Korea. They account for 80% or even more of international tourists to Japan. For them, travelling Japan is very easy and cheap. For example, for people living in Hong Kong, Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore, Beijing and Shanghai, it can be cheaper to fly to Japan than people in Tohoku region travel to Kyoto by use of two Shinkansen lines (Tohoku Shinkansen + Tokaido Shikansen). So, Asian people we see in ski resorts in winter are actually coming to Japan in green season as well.

    We see increasing number of tourists from Asia in Aizu region in green season. The accessibility from Tokyo is relatively good + Onsen + Cycling + Sake brewery tour + Sakura + Autumn color + Fruit picking tour + Hiking, etc. What makes it difficult is, more popular as a ski resort means more ski lodges in the region and you must compete with many other lodges. Here in Aizu region, most owners can't speak English much while majority of tourists from Asia can speak English "more or less", so if you have a lodge business and you can provide them the information they need in English, they might choose your lodge.
     
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  24. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    You can pretty much forget snowboarding/skiing until spring if you you own a small lodge and are running it as a business, especially in the 1st 5 years. Seen many a person made that mistake.
     
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  25. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    This x 1000. So many people come in with rose coloured glasses. I think after this season there might be a few foreign lodge owners who will find themselves in somewhat of a dilemma.
     
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  26. Jacksong

    Jacksong Addicted

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    There will always be windows to go and ski, unless trying to run the place with no staff! You need staff..
     
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  27. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just an example,

    I often see a foreign family of four (Father, Mather, Child A and Child B) skiing in Japan. Child A grows up and marry. If you are Child A, now you have 5 working adults who like skiing (including your wife or husband). For 5 working adults, I'd say 8 to 10 million Yen is very cheap (2 million Yen or less per person). 10 million Yen is very enough to buy a 4 or 5LDK house and renovate it in a rural ski resort village. At first, it's only family and friend use. In the near future, your parents will retire and they can stay in the lodge throughout winter. I assume retired people don't need to earn seriously. 1 million Yen per winter is too small to make a living for a working generation, but for retired people, even 0.5 million Yen is enough. So, they can enjoy a minimum lodge business while they enjoy skiing as well. Unless you buy a very wrong property, you can resell it after using the lodge for 10 - 15 years.


    Even in Myoko, Madarao, etc, serious business use lodges are available at 30 million Yen (or less) , and you might think it's cheap. However, to operate a serious ski lodge, you'll need at least two people. And, earning enough amount of money for two people in working generation is not easy and that's why those serious used ski lodges are that cheap now.
     
    #777 Ramenman, Jan 14, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
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  28. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It seems some properties that I showed here have been already sold. For example, the one below has been sold. I thought the house = 4 million Yen is very good (too cheap). Some lodges I showed here have been discounted further too. So, some information I showed here in the past is not the latest.

     
  29. elSpike

    elSpike I am a Meat Popsicle Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is very accurate. We have so many deals through the spring/summer on low cost airlines for in-region travel. We almost flew to Tokyo just for a concert a couple of years ago. Two people SIN->NRT return was $300 all in. SIN-HKG was regularly ~$50.

    Writing about this has made me sad. Stupid Covid.
     
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  30. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is a Hokkaido's local tv channel reporting how much properties in Rusutsu village are in the video (they are 10 to 30 times more expensive than the properties I've been showing here:p)
     
  31. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've shown some apartment rooms inside Tomamu resort for sale. This video is a good video to understand what it is like to live there(all parts of the video were filmed "inside" Tomamu resort).
     
  32. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And Niseko
     
  33. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman A Local

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    Ski what cut up crap , or chopped blue groomers ?
    It's not Europe or Nth America where if there isn't powder , you can ski nice steep terrain
    I probably sound like a knob , but for the money you would make for the season , the hours you put in , that kind of skiing isn't worth it .
     
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  34. Jacksong

    Jacksong Addicted

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    I know lodge owners in Japan who can often get first lifts because they pay staff to do the morning check-outs/guest services.

    They moved to Japan to ski and own a lodge. That is what they do.

    If you live in a ski resort long enough you know where to find untouched snow for days after snowfall anyway.
     
  35. Nozawaman

    Nozawaman A Local

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    Well I will tell you now , those owners aren't going to be successful with their lodge business , and we are talking about lifestyle properties here .
    I have seen a huge influx of the people you mention . Paying people just dilutes whatever money you make ( if they are really making money ) . Lodges are hands on business , and yes you can have helpers but at the end of the day like any SMALL BUSINESS you need to be there when it opens and when it closes IMO .
     
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  36. skichanger

    skichanger A Local

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    Reading that you are often at Madarao I wonder who you know.

    To a large extent I agree with @Nozawaman Our biggest issue is finding staff. If we could find Japanese staff it might be easier but even the resorts struggle.
     
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