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Resource Japan Snow Country Realestate 2020 to 2070

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Scoober, Aug 17, 2020.

  1. 2ESki

    2ESki Addicted

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    Video won't play :(
     
  2. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh, really, which video?. Some videos on Youtube won't play in some countries. It won't play in Australia:confused:??
     
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  3. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    It seems it's only 7.9 million Yen now(= about 100K AUD), it was 8.9 million Yen when I first noticed it was for sale and when the Youtube video was made(the video says 8.9 million Yen but the website has got updated and now it's 7.9 million Yen). Because of COVID-19 or something?, it has got even cheaper now.
     
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  4. 2ESki

    2ESki Addicted

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    That video :rolleyes:
     
  5. mannyk

    mannyk One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Video is playing for me..
    Dont stop showing videos, always love to see videos from Japan..Thank you for your input as usual..
     
  6. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I forgot to mention. In the end of the video, the real estate agency guy starts walking from the house to Panorama ski resort. It's only 100+ meters from the house to one of the bottom lift stations. So, it's nearly ski-in ski-out house. Red = The house. Yellow = One of the bottom lift stations.




    And it's about 40 min drive from Morioka station.






    And it's about 2.5km from Shimokura ski resort. I like Shimokura.




    These are terrain maps of Panorama and Shimokura. The region's (=Hachimantai) tree line is low, so even in relatively low altitude, trees are nicely sparse for tree skiing. Several years ago, none of the region had official treerun courses but the ski resorts in the region started opening official treerun courses in recent years. Shimokura is one of them. "Fun", "Drop" and "Cruise" are the new official treerun courses. The region is full of suitable natural terrains for powder tree skiing (if you are into backcountry, you'll highly rate the region).
    [​IMG]

    This was filmed at Shimokura ski resort. It was filmed on January 2nd, 2015. January 2nd is a bit too early for the best tree skiing condition but still this big amount of snow. Official treerun courses opened in 2019 = very new, so I couldn't find a good treerun video there, but if you like powder treerun, you'll like Shimokura.


    In "Latest ski & tourism news" thread, I wrote about one of backcountry routes of Shimokura. The video in the "QUOTE" was filmed in March. Early - mid March has still good snow condition in Hachimantai region (or northern Tohoku in general)



    Random backcountry videos filmed very near the house.






    Filmed on March 19th. Late March is still good.






    And 24 mins to Appi Kogen ski resort. 7.9 million Yen (100K AUD), cheap, I think;)
     
  7. Crispy013

    Crispy013 One of Us

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    Loooved Shimokura. Tree runs quite similar In feel to Rusutsu.
     
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  8. David-eTO

    David-eTO Early Days

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    Eventually both resorts are earning a lot of consensus.


    This is an article that appeared last week on mountainwatch.com that gives good reviews to both.
     
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  9. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    From the mountainwatch.com/japan/hachimantai/ article Shimokura is where the good skiing is with Panorama's modest 12 degree average pitch being good for beginners. Note there is a free shuttle bus between the resorts. I am getting more and more interested in acquiring a winter home in Japan in an area not yet too popular with foreigners...like me! Morioka and the Iwate region also look good for green season times. Time to start proper research. The 3 month tourist visa would be fine as long as we could get them reliably but not being able to buy and store a car would be inconvenient. With little Japanese speaking ability and less reading ability (i.e. reading Japanese) Iwhen I get serious about finding an area and property, I will need a consultant to help to suggest how to go about it. Meanwhile I will read what members have kindly posted and lobby my wife.
    Edit: terrain map removed. @Ramenman had already posted it above.
     
    #109 Goski, Aug 26, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  10. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    Interesting. When I opened this page I got a malware warning re content on the mountainwatch site.
     
  11. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator

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    ping @Richard
     
  12. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept Administrator

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    Goski's post above yours is pulling in the map image from mountainwatch. That's what's likely triggering it. The mountainwatch domain must have got Own3d by hackers.. The image is not the problem - just don't visit mountainwatch until it's sorted
     
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  13. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

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    No worries Richard. I knew it wasn't ski.com.au. As I said, the warning stated it was coming from mountainwatch.
     
  14. Chux-sw

    Chux-sw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Malwarebytes is reporting a Trojan at mountainwatch
     
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  15. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This channel is very good to understand buying a veeeery cheap abandoned house from an Akiya Bank and renovate it.


    It's the same house = the abandoned house which he bought under renovation.



    The other videos (his channel) : https://www.youtube.com/c/TokyoLlama/videos






    Wood houses, especially Japanese traditional houses are very reformable. Akiya Banks have veeeery cheap abandoned old Japanese style wood houses. Some people buy one at 3 million Yen (or less) and reform & renovate it to a very nice house. It's cheaper than you think and the process is fun. But if you can't understand Japanese, it is not easy in that the designers and carpenters might not understand what you really want. Here is some examples.



     
    #115 Ramenman, Aug 27, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  16. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think we need to start the Japanese version of realestate.com.au!
     
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  17. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Sorry! Damn hackers. I use Avast on my laptop but not on my chromebook. I'll stay away from mountainwatch for now. :nerd:
     
  18. TACKIE

    TACKIE One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have previously watch the entire series from TokyoLlama. He even states that the idea of ever getting back the amount of money pumped into the building is next to zero. Its a "labour of love". Beautiful house though.
     
  19. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah don't buy in Japan expecting make capital gains like we do in Aus.
     
  20. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think that's why buying a used house is better than building a new home in Japan unless you live there forever. People here love building new homes and 40 million Yen new house can be 20 million Yen after 10 years (only half price) while a used 20 million Yen house can be 15 million+ Yen when you sell it. A used house is "already used", so when you buy one, it is usually already nicely discounted and it won't be discounted further (much) when you resell it (it depends on the condition, though).
     
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  21. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    It used to be something we struggled to get our heads around, however friends who only entered the property market over the last decade all tell the same story of never having made a single cent in property (WA). Never thought I’d see the day that Aus followed Japan on that!
     
  22. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    Once again I will repeat myself. Location Location Location. There has been significant capital gains in several places in the last few years, more so than many/any places in Aus. As a simple example land prices in Echoland have tripled in the last 3 years based on recent sales.
     
  23. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    So houses in Japan are like cars in Australia, depreciating quickly in the early years ad generally then decline slowly in value with age? Except the more recent ones in areas that Aussies are frequenting perhaps where build quality can be high and Aussies are conditioned to pay lots for real estate and expect prices to constantly increase. Are Niseko, Hakuba and Kutchan real estate bubbles that will burst, particularly if early 2021 is a bust for OS visitors to Japan?
     
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  24. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    That's very true.

    The land price of Niseko (Kutchan) has become 10 times in the last 5 years or so. But you should not forget majority people here are not likely to be able to buy good location properties. The lands whose prices are very likely to rise in the future are usually already a bit too expensive (a bit too risky) for majority people. So, I try to find cheap ones which can be affordable for "majority people".
     
  25. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Is that value now at risk with the damned pandemic's impacts @Lucky Pete ?
     
  26. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I'm a "majority person". With all the 80's boom apartment buildings at Naeba, I'd expect some bargains could be found there and it offers Kagura resort skiing too with Kagura's backcountry options and the town of Yuzawa close by.
     
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  27. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    You are right. It really is a case of supply and demand. We have also seen prices increase where we are in Japan. At Madarao the new resort owners bought everything that was cheap and in a good location.

    I look at all the property we have owned in Aus over the years. Those in an inner city location have increased significantly. Where we live now has hardly changed in value and would cost about 3 times what we paid for it to rebuild but is the 2nd nicest house we have ever lived in. So sometimes it is about lifestyle choices not making money.
     
  28. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Depends how long and how deep the impacts Goski.
     
  29. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you are buying just for your own use the condos at Naeba can be great value. But some people have been caught out buying them and thinking they can do short term rentals.
     
  30. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes. Just like cars in Aus with a few exceptions. Or maybe the exceptions are more like buying classics that increase in value over time.

    We have friends who bought in Niseko in 2005. They have done very well. But this is an exception.

    In the Hakuba area values went down after the Olympics and they are now rising again. It would be interesting to see a graph of values over time adjusted for inflation. Though inflation in Japan is not the same as in Aus.
     
  31. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    @LMB Where is your small block of 6 i.e. which ski area, not the actual address (just enquiring, not stalking!)
     
  32. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Upper Hirafu

    And value wise, we bought off the back of the GFC when many people who were leveraged got called in. We were fortunate to have not long before sold a commercial property which meant we could do the deal in cash.

    The value after 5-6 yrs had close to doubled because we had bought at such a low point. However what the impact of coronavirus and the economic fallout of coronavirus will be is anyone’s guess.
     
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  33. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    And we all hope not into 2022! When the Aussies can all come back the demand should restart the capital gains. Might be a few property owners under financial stress wh have to sell which could provide a lower entry point for anone placed to know about them and buy them. It's the commercial accom businesses that will suffer more of course.
     
  34. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    See my edit above
     
  35. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    What do you think the next area to take off will be? I was reading that Furano is getting more OS investment now that Niseko and Kutchan have gone up so much. For me I am more interested in a quieter Honshu area that has enough going on in it so that it won't have ski lifts and village amenities closing in the medium term.
     
  36. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Let me explain my basic stance here.

    I'm not showing used properties for capital gain, but I'm just showing ski related properties so that "average people here" can enjoy a ski lodge owner's life as a "life time hobby". Owning a small lodge in a snowy ski resort region is very interesting in many ways (for people like me). It's not for capital gain but as a life time hobby. A person loves cars, and he / she has two cars. One is a 5 million Yen Lexus (It's Toyota's luxury brand) for his / her family use and another is a used 5 - 10 million Yen sports car as a life time hobby. He / she won't expect capital gain from the used sports car but he / she owns it just to enjoy driving the car in race circuits. My stance is the ski version. I'll keep showing cheap lodges in ski regions. It's cheap, but if you can't afford to buy Lexus, this thread might not be for you unfortunately.
     
  37. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes, I get that it would only be for owners plus owner-accompanied guests (who would be free to chip in for their exoenses). Away from the mega Prince Hotel complex there wasn't much going on in 2018, just a couple of very quiet bars and one newly built restaurant with no village shuttle bus to the ski area due to most buildings being the apartment blocks with owners with cars. I stayed in one of the buildings with a Japanese family then a few nights. in their tiny studio apartment. When they left to go back to Tokyo I moved to the Mikunisozu ryokan where I was the only guest for 2 out of 3 nights and 1 of 3 guests for the third night. This was in early February, don't know how they turn a profit. If Naeba became more popular with Aussies a coffee shop / bar business could do well with little competition....until it gets more popular of course and bars pop up everywhere. I shoud see what apartments in their apartment building are going for. He bought his for about 10K in the early 2000s and annual fews were about 2k from memory. I remember being very surprised at the purchase price which may well be even less now. I'd want something bigger than their single room apartment, with at least one separate bedroom.
     
  38. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    IMO it is already to late to buy in Furano.

    There are lots of possibilities. The criteria I would use are:
    • Average and range of winter temp. If you don't like it really cold stick with Honshu.
    • Annual snow fall and length of season. Some places you can still do Easter
    • Is it for you or for a business?
    • How close to the slopes do you want to be? Ski in ski out, walking distance, drive to several resorts.
    • Access to the area - is there a shinkansen or toll road from Tokyo?
    • What are the local resorts like? Do they suit you? Are you allowed to ski off piste? e.g. Listel at Inawashira is flat then steep. We only went there because it has a FIS level moguls comp. Grand Ecco has a longer season but you are not allowed to go out of bounds. It is in a national park and no tree thinning is allowed.
    • Are you comfortable being the only westerner?
    • How close is a big town/city?
    • who owns the resorts in the area?
    • Other resources in the area?
    Perhaps look on Snow Japan to see which resorts suit your needs and go from there.

    When I bought my 1st place if I knew what I know now I would have bought a condo at Naeba.
     
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  39. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    There are bigger ones and ones in other areas. People I know ski at Naspa and own 3 bedroom condos.
     
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  40. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Another term that is often used is a "lifestyle investment property" @Ramenman where the return on the investment is the enjoyment of using the property, knowing that it is not expected to increase in capital value. Which is just what you are showing us, which I appreciate very much. It is great to see what is on offer in the different areas for a family/group of friends to buy and enjoy. Not forgetting maybe using it some years in the Green Season when my wife and I work less or retire.
     
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  41. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    It would be for me and my family and my wife likes to ski but doesn't want it very cold so Honshu is better for us plus it offers more non-snow places to visit. I preferred Kagura to Naeba for skiing but it's easy to get to Kagura with a car and still easy enough without one if staying in Naeba. Only about 700 yen for a bus ride to the Tashiro ropeway and of course the Dragondola is there. I will take a closer look at Naeba and also Yuzawa. If the capital investment is low for a reasonably sized condo then it's not much risk in return for years of enjoyment. One with a view of the weekend fireworks would be a bonus.
     
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  42. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

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    I dont see that growth continuing at that rate but am still (measured) bullish, particularly as we are seeing large investments even this year. As an example there is a huge new house (residential) being built over 8 blocks of land in Misarano. I would think cost would be north of $US2.5M. Besides one other large house built many years ago that's a 1st. So a good sign and I would think one of many to come.

    As I understand it there are also lot of transactions happening this summer and Japanese money is also coming back into town too. There are some people, mainly Tokyo gaijin, coming up thinking they will score bargains because of C19 but if that happens it will be next spring. Many others are looking to buy up here as its close to Tokyo etc and with global travel looking like it will struggle for the mid term they are looking closer to 'home'.

    Our builder is also fully committed well into next year and is getting a lot of inquiries although its all about firm orders. So definitely some positive signs but those that are over committed will feel pain but most of those properties are in poor condition in our experience due to a lack of ongoing maintenance etc.

    We continue to buy/sell as we see opportunities but maintain low gearing and are about to start a reno on a one bedroom apartment and small retail shop. I wouldnt be doing that if I didnt see the upside :)
     
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  43. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you don't mind joint ownership with your ski mates or family members, you can enjoy a ski lodge owner's life more easily. For example, this 26 year old good condition lodge with 5 bed rooms in Hachimantai (near Shimokura ski resort, etc) is 12 million Yen now (it was 14 million Yen last year). I think if you have your own room in the lodge, you can feel it's your lodge even if you own jointly with a few other people. If you own the lodge with 2 other ski mates / family members, 3 bed rooms are owner's rooms and two bed rooms are for guests. 12 million Yen / 3 = 4 million Yen per person, cheap. Each owner stays in the lodge for about 4 weeks, then you can keep the lodge open from Christmas to mid March, while earning some from the guest rooms. You can earn some from the guests and I think you can resell the 12 million Yen property at least 8 million Yen after using 10 years. So actual "capital loss" is 12 - 8 = 4 million Yen or less, and it means the capital loss per person is less than 1.5 million Yen (if you buy it with 2 other people). I'm suggesting owning a ski lodge "as a life time hobby", but you can still make the lodge profitable if you can attract some guests by use of the 2 guest rooms (the lodge has 5 bed rooms, but supposing 3 of them are owner's rooms)
    [​IMG]













     

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  44. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator

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    Sounds like the rationale for a small "invitation only" ski club.

    ;)
     
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  45. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Maybe we need a ski.com.au Japan ski lodge!!
     
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  46. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I was thinking Naeba would be a good place.
     
  47. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have actually floated this several times. Lots of talk and no action by anyone but me.
     
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  48. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Moderator

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    I think you need to start with a core group who already enjoy each other's company in a social context and have a similar snow sports interest (eg, family oriented club, competition focused, catered & managed or self managed etc).
     
  49. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Some people mentioned Yuzawa. Yuzawa region has quite many cheap lodges / houses for sale now. If you want to make the initial cost as cheap as possible. This kind of lodges would be good. This lodge with 3 bed rooms very near Naeba ski resort is only 2 million Yen. There is a reason. In the same area, there are a lot of ski lodges. You can own the lodges but you can't own the lands there, so each lodge owner needs to pay nearly 0.3 million Yen every year. That said, the first year, you only need 2.3 million Yen = 30K AUD. From the second year till you sell it, you pay 4K AUD for the land, clearing snow, etc per year. I'd say even if you get bored after 5 years, you can resell the lodge at around 2 million Yen. So, capital loss is minimum and in that sense, buying that kind of lodge at first might be good "to learn lodge business".
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    The link : https://www.homes.co.jp/other/b-15500001212/
     
    m2711c and Scoober like this.
  50. mannyk

    mannyk One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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