1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Resource Japan Snow Country Realestate 2020 to 2070

Discussion in 'Japan' started by Scoober, Aug 17, 2020.

  1. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    Dropping out in the middle can be the biggest loser.

    For example, there are 5 owners. 15 million Yen lodge. 3 million Yen per person.

    Owner A drops out first. Owner B, C, D and E pay 0.5 million Yen respectively (2 million Yen in total) . Owner A receives 2 million Yen, so his / her loss is 1 million Yen.

    Owner B drops out second. He / she receives 2 million Yen, but he / she already paid 0.5 million Yen when owner A dropped out. So, Owner B's loss is 1.5 million Yen (Owner C, D, E pay another 0.67 million Yen respectively for Owner B to receive 2 million Yen).

    Owner C says "I want to drop out". If Owner D and E think "We can't pay any more", Owner C, D and E resell the property together. If somebody buys the lodge at 12 million Yen. The capital loss is 3 million Yen, but 3 people share the 12 million Yen = Owner C, D and E can receive 4 million Yen respectively. Owner C, D and E respectively paid 3 million Yen when they bought the lodge, 0.5 million Yen when Owner A dropped out and 0.67 million Yen when Owner B dropped out. So what they paid respectively was 4.17 million Yen (3 mllion Yen + 0.5 million Yen + 0.67 million Yen). So their capital loss is 4.17 - 4 = only 0.17 million Yen. So, the biggest loser is Owner B.

    Our rules are actually not that simple, though.

    Speaking of our case, we are close friends from university, so we haven't had any conflicts(have owned it about 7 years). 2 of of them who dropped out got married, and they bought and opened their own ski lodge. So, their drop out was not because they lost interest in skiing, but the joint ownership made them more interested in ski lodge business(or in having their own family use lodge). With a lot smaller financial burden (smaller risk) and a lot smaller labor, they can learn ski lodge business. In that sense, joint ownership is not bad (even if not good)
     
    M_G, Asama and cold wombat like this.
  2. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Location:
    Melburn
    1,000,000 JPY for an apartment that sleeps 5 in Yuzawa? Did I read that correctly? That's $12,000 AUD (plus the $4,000 AUD per annum in fees)...

    Where do I sign up? I'm thinking of becoming an economic refugee from Victoria.

    Question: What happens when you buy it, then a few years down the track you want out? If you can't sell it are you forced to keep paying the fees until someone buys it? Can you abandon it for $0?
     
  3. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    That's the biggest issue, and it can be a big issue for some Japanese people. Let me explain,

    Here in Japan, there is no way to waive the ownership of real estates. So, you can only sell it or donate to someone. If you own the apartment, you need to keep paying the maintenance fees. But actually, a lot of people who bought apartments in Yuzawa haven't paid the maintenance fees because they haven't used the apartments for long (because they lost interest in skiing or they just bought the apartments for capital gain during the bubble economy era).

    Then after 25 years, a related problem appeared. The initial owners = the people who bought the apartments around 1990 died. In Japanese laws, if you want to inherit, you need to inherit the debt as well. So, a person is living with his father in the house his farther owns, then his father dies and he gets to notice that his father owns an apartment in Yuzawa but hasn't paid the maintenance fees for 20 years. 0.2+ million Yen per year * 20 years = 4 - 5 million Yen. Then, he has to decide if he inherits both his father's house and the debt or waive both the house and debt. Actually, you can sometimes buy Yuzawa's apartments at 1 Yen because for the people who are no longer using those apartments, selling at 1 Yen is a lot better than paying 0.2 - 0.3 million Yen per year.

    That said, for the people who are actually using those apartments, it can be a good buy. Initial cost is super cheap, and they can keep living there if they pay only 0.3 million Yen per year. And actually, those used apartments are popular among some families (some Japanese couples are uploading videos and they like the apartments).
     
  4. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,035
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Location:
    Melburn
    So if the owner that bought it in 1990 died and nobody from their family inherits it, does it end up in an Akiya bank? What happens there?
     
  5. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    There are court auctions.
     
    cold wombat and Ramenman like this.
  6. mannyk

    mannyk One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    935
    Location:
    Gold coast
    I understand that you are not permitted to air b&b or let out as a holiday apt. But...if you were able to do so, wouldnt that make them more appealing to purchasers and help keep their value. I certainly would be happy to air B&B one of those apartments so close to the train station In yuzawa.
    I read that only people listed on the apt as owners are permitted to stay.
    As a option I could list myself and 2 adult sons as owners, Does that make it available to us all?
    That could make it worth while.?? = $20 per week each. If fees were $3000 P/A
    Sorry theres a few questions here..
     
  7. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    By the way, if 20 to 30+ min drive is okay for you, even Niseko is cheap. For example, this family use lodge is very near one of Niseko's golf courses and it's about 20 or 30+ min drive to ski slopes of Niseko and Rusutsu. It's a 18 year old lodge and the condition doesn't look bad (you can see pictures in the link below) and it's only 9.8 million Yen. I think those lodges are ideal for retired couples who want to stay in Niseko for 3 months every winter (or even in green season because Hokkaido is great in green season as well). You can even see the beautiful Mt.Yotei from the lodge everyday:p
    [​IMG]

    The link : https://www.nisekocountry.com/detailtatemono88.html
     
    #207 Ramenman, Aug 29, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2020
  8. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    You can own an apartment jointly with your family (or even with the people who are not your family members). Plus, even if you are the sole owner, I'd say you can let your children stay at the apartment "as a common sense" even when you are not in Japan (but not your friends). Anyway, if you are seriously interested, you should visit the agency with an interpreter / expert and ask about a lot of things you need to know before buying, especially about two common maintenance fees called "管理費" and "修繕費" (they make the annual cost of 0.3 million Yen).

    The worst case is, when you want to sell it, nobody tries to buy it even if it's 1 Yen (and even Yuzawa village don't want to receive the donation). But you are an Australian person living outside Japan and you don't have another property in Japan, so it won't make a big problem for you (I guess). I mean, Japanese inheritance law is only applied to properties inside Japan (I think so), which means, it won't affect your children. It can be a big problem for me. For example, my parents own more than 4 real estates inside Japan. My siblings and I will inherit them in the future. If my father owns an apartment in Yuzawa and hasn't paid the maintenance fees for 20 years, after he dies, we have to pay 4 or 5 million Yen. As I mentioned in one of previous posts, due to Japanese inheritance law, we can only inherit all properties and debt or inherit nothing. If we want to inherit his real estates (including ski lodges), we have to inherit the 4 or 5 million Yen debt as well.

    If the person doesn't own another property inside Japan, it won't be a big problem (in my opinion). Anyway, I'm not a specialist, so don't believe me too much. Just hire an expert / interpreter and visit the real estate agency.
     
    cold wombat likes this.
  9. mannyk

    mannyk One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    935
    Location:
    Gold coast
    Thankyou.. great information. Be a few years before I make a decision on real estate. However this has been good for future activities. We would love to spend 3 months of the year. Be a good investment if I spend min 3 months of the year in Japan.
    I wonder if you left a debt on a property if immigration may not let you back in the country
     
  10. fennekeg

    fennekeg One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    449
    Location:
    Delft
    One thing I haven't seen mentioned here is getting a real estate agent that speaks English. I follow one on Twitter (don't know if I'm allowed to advertize his name here), an American who's been living in Tokyo for years and is an an official real estate agent there (passed the Japanese exam). Don't know if there are more?
     
    skichanger likes this.
  11. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    I don’t see why you cannot share this. It would be useful.

    couple of things people should also know, real estate agent commissions are regulated. There is usually a commission for both the buying and selling agent, a bit like USA. Only licensed RE agents can be paid a commission. So when someone asks for a % for introducing you to an agent, what they are doing is illegal. Consulting fees fir things like translators are fine.

    unlike Australia secret commissions seem to ve allowed and are common practice.
     
  12. Lucky Pete

    Lucky Pete One of Us

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    1,282
    Location:
    Hakuba
    Another thing worth knowing is that real estate agents here can legally buy and sell property in their own name, in fact its likely to be a key income stream for some agents although not all do this. I always ask who the vendor is, you'll be surprised how often its the agent who is flipping places. Our apartment building was a case in point. In some instances they were the ones to initially value the places too. You can fill in the dots....

    Here's a link that details the purchase costs put together by Sakura, a local real estate agency we use.

    http://www.srehakuba.com/tips/flow.html
     
    Scoober, M_G and skichanger like this.
  13. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    I didn’t know about the RE agents flipping properties No idea what the rules in Aus are.

    It is slwys good to know this sort of info.
     
  14. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    By the way, some apartments let you start lodge business (such as Airbnb). Here is the example,

    At first, people who own the apartments tend to be against the apartments being used for Airbnb, etc because they don't want a lot of tourists to make noises around where they live. As time goes by, the apartments are getting less popular and not many people are living there = not many people are paying the maintenance fees. As a result, those apartments can't spend enough for cleaning, renovation, etc. Then, they start thinking "accepting Airbnb is better if they pay maintenance fees". Actually, some apartments in Yuzawa village let you start Airbnb business (and I guess more apartments will follow in the future)

    This is the video (it's an apartment in Yuzawa village which has started letting people use the rooms for Airbnb)
     
    Born2skii and Hyst like this.
  15. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    It would be worth knowing how “strata” in Japan works. I know there are management companies. Do they make the decisions ir do the condo owners?
     
  16. Hyst

    Hyst Enjoyer Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Good with a nice Japanese bath! :clap:
     
    Ramenman likes this.
  17. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
  18. M_G

    M_G M_G_ = Make skiing great again Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,244
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    Location:
    上越妙高
    Also on a very basic level, if a big majority of owners are not paying fees and then there is a problem with the building or ongoing maintenance who is going to pay for it?

    You'd have to go into something like this with the idea that if you, 1) decided you didn't want it anymore, or 2) maintenance fees became too expensive, or 3) you were excluded from accessing the property (such as now with COVID), then you would prepared to take the financial hit and walk away.
     
    Lucky Pete and skichanger like this.
  19. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    It is far more complex than it at first appears. One has to ask if it really is such a good deal why aren’t lots of people doing this? That doesn’t mean it is not a good option for everyone. It just means do your research and make sure it is a good fit for you. I know several people who own condos and it does work for then.
     
    Asama likes this.
  20. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    It seems the smallest rooms of the apartment are sold at about 0.9 - 1 million Yen. You can use it for Airbnb as well. Then, If I were you, I would definitely choose it than 1 Yen apartment that you can't use for Airbnb. You can use it for Airbnb, which means, I assume you, your children, your friends, anyone can stay there and you can earn some too. Plus, it'll make it easier for you to resell it.

    https://mansion-market.com/mansions/detail/78715

    https://www.angel-g.co.jp/minpaku/english/index.html

    http://www.angel-r.com/pdf/housemanual_airbnb_English.pdf
     
    mannyk likes this.
  21. Asama

    Asama Addicted

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    NW Gunma, Japan 1100m asl
    Even if people *are* paying fees, how the money gets used can still be the source of endless fighting and politics.
    That's what happened at one place local to me (not Yuzawa but a similar setup to the apartments mentioned in here). Ostensibly a nice building in far better condition than some of the monoliths in Yuzawa.

    I don't really understand anything about apartment ownership but somehow I imagine it to be a minefield. You own something insofar as you are obliged to pay taxes/fees on it, but the building itself remains outside of your control. When the building reaches the end of its life, what happens? (←this is a genuine question as I'm sure there is a framework for this) Owning land (a bit of earth's surface) that you can do what you want with sounds so much simpler than owning a bit of space X storeys up in the air... to my simple mind anyway.
     
    M_G likes this.
  22. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    This is an issue everywhere there are high rise. And in Sydney we have also had the issue of the places that had structural damage. I might go look up what has happened with those.

    I have never owned strata property so I have no idea what happens at building end of life. I do own a community title property in NSW, which is like strata but with torrens title land with in a common area. Roads, street lighting, community buildings are shared responsabiliites. Also these are state legislation in Aus so every state is different. mmm how much is this a minefield in Japan? Perhaps the people who own these types of property in Niseko might know @LMB
     
    Asama likes this.
  23. mannyk

    mannyk One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    2,268
    Likes Received:
    935
    Location:
    Gold coast
    House or unit sounds like a mine field if you are not living in the dwelling..
    Unit.... with issues as you mentioned above, stuck with fixed running costs with out income....
    House.... land clearing and up keep.
    The cheap costs of original purchase of either gets my attention, the reality is a bit less tempting.
    Unless one day we look back and say " wow we should have bought back in 2020, look at the prices now!!"
     
  24. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    There are laws for it. If the 80% owners vote for rebuilding or demolishing to sell the land, it will be rebuilt or demolished. The owners who vote for rebuilding / demolishing to sell the land pay the costs and owners who are against the plan, they'll get some money (according to the current value of the apartment room they own).

    But either rebuilding / demolishing can be very costly, so the reality is that apartments are ending as "ghost towns" unless they are located in very good places (for example, if they are close to stations in big cities like Tokyo, there must be some companies which want to build new apartments there).
     
  25. Asama

    Asama Addicted

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    NW Gunma, Japan 1100m asl
    Had to look up "strata property" - it seems to be an Australian concept that has spread.

    Found this page re: the situation in Japan: https://www.athome.co.jp/contents/words/term_863/#:~:text=区分所有建物を建て替えることを決める決議をいう。&text=このため、区分所有法,建替え決議である。

    Specifically when it comes to rebuilding a jointly owned apartment building when repair costs exceed building costs:
    - The agreement of 80% of the parties with "voting rights" is needed in order to rebuild a building.
    - All owners need to be informed (what happens where the owners can't be traced? I think this is common in properties bought up 30 years ago in the bubble era whose owners have since died/lost all interest).
    - It seems like owners not interested in rebuilding are obliged to sell their portion to those who are (I'm a bit vague on this point).

    If agreement isn't reached, I suspect the building just slowly falls to pieces from neglect. That seems a likely outcome for a building that isn't lived in and whose owners aren't particularly invested.

    Do you remember a couple of years ago there was a fuss in the news about investors buying up apartments in Tokyo and letting them on Airbnb to (mostly Chinese) tourists who weren't aware of the rules and upset the full time residents by piling corridors full of rubbish etc? I think this and lobbying from the hotel industry led to a change in the 民泊 (renting out your own apartment to tourists) rules to some obscure condition that you can only let out your apartment if the tourists are going to stay more than 7 nights or something like that... on the surface it looked like an attempt to exclude Airbnb from the Japanese market and protect the conventional hotel industry, but any idea what happened with that in the end?

    Edit: synchronised posting w/ ramenman = basically the same info!
     
    Ramenman likes this.
  26. Asama

    Asama Addicted

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    NW Gunma, Japan 1100m asl
    Old English article on this issue - seems like a transparent attempt to make Airbnb unviable to me!

    https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20180615/p2a/00m/0na/028000c#:~:text=A new law regulating short,get in on the action.
     
  27. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    2 years ago there was new legislation relating to short term lettings. It caused a lot of problems and there are some posts on in other threads on here about it. For me personally it was a bit of a nightmare. Even though I have hotel licenses for both my properties, and thus unaffected by this legislation, Airbnb delisted me (and everyone else in Japan) and it took me 4 months to get it sorted out.

    Initially getting the Minpaku license was very difficult because no-one knew the rules, well the rules had not been written. Now it is easier.
     
    m2711c and Asama like this.
  28. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    I think the Tokyo's apartment case and the Yuzawa's apartment case are two very different cases. Speaking of Yuzawa's case, the owners were "desperate" to have more people utilizing the apartment so that they will be able to keep gaining enough maintenance fees and make the most of the apartment rooms which they are no longer using. So, majority owners support the plan of accepting Airbnb, etc.

    Edit:
    Oh, the last post was my 4,000th post:eek:. 4,000 posts in 6.5 yearso_O
     
    dr80, m2711c, Budgiesmuggler and 7 others like this.
  29. Asama

    Asama Addicted

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    NW Gunma, Japan 1100m asl
    owners = management company?
    I actually meant to ask, does the management company ultimately own the building, or simply force all residents to enter a contract?

    I agree definitely a different situation to Tokyo, as so few people living there full time anyway, and the seasonal nature of ski resorts. Actually I wonder whether holiday lettings is the long term solution for this type of apartment building now the market has changed (esp. given projected increases in tourism from Asian countries).


    The pic below may explain why I am so interested in the perils of jointly-owned buildings - I live opposite this building.
    It's not even that old but not used and no maintenance (except a bit of grass cutting). In this case it's a "component owner system" apartment complex, which I think just means timeshare. Must be about 100 units in total. Rumour has it the owners are still liable for property tax...
     

    Attached Files:

    m2711c likes this.
  30. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    1,208
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Congratulations for 4.000 :):)
     
    elSpike, m2711c and Ramenman like this.
  31. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    30,964
    Likes Received:
    27,241
    Location:
    Perth
    Sinking fund is maintained to keep the building maintained, renovations and improvements are made. Thankfully only 6 owners to worry about in our building, not dozens.

    At some stage it might be a bulldozer job, who knows!!
     
    m2711c likes this.
  32. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    1,208
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Very unloved building. Where is it? Appliances like water heaters like to be used regularly. Trying to get one going after years of down time can be difficult. A bit of corrosion in a circuit board from damp due to not using it can be the end of one. The inside rooms could be mouldy too. Otherwise, maybe it could be a ski.com.au member prjoect?
     
    m2711c and hotsaki like this.
  33. Asama

    Asama Addicted

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    NW Gunma, Japan 1100m asl
    Tsumagoi village, Gunma pref. Primarily a green-season summer getaway (although we have our share of ski slopes too).
    I think that one is beyond saving, especially with being such an ugly design in the first place.
    Another issue is that the full ownership isn't contactable, which is maybe one of the reasons it is sitting in limbo as it is.
    I uploaded that as a convenient example, being on my doorstep. The mountains of Japan are littered with thousands upon thousands of buildings like this... and that's no exaggeration.
     
    m2711c, M_G, Hyst and 1 other person like this.
  34. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    By the way, Yuzawa is having very different two aspects now. The number of Japanese skiers has become only 1/3 or less if compared to the bubble economy era - crazy ski boom era of late 1980s - early 1990s. Even Hakuba, Nozawa Onsen, Myoko etc (popular ski resort regions for tourists from abroad) had more guests around 1990 than recent years. The image below says that Gala Yuzawa ski resort had 376,000 guests in 1992 - 1993 season. The number dropped to 167,000 in 2007 - 2008 season. Then 2017 - 2018 season, they had 348,000 guests (so, it's V-shaped recovery). In recent years, Asian tourists have been rushing to Gala Yuzawa because of the great accessibility from Tokyo. After the Winter Olympics Beijing 2022, I wonder what Yuzawa looks like. Chinese people will start buying those apartments in Yuzawa:p? (Actually, some have started buying reportedly).
    [​IMG]

    This is an interesting article : https://www.fnn.jp/articles/-/8421
     
    Hermannator likes this.
  35. Goski

    Goski One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2013
    Messages:
    959
    Likes Received:
    1,208
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Agree it is an ugly design. Looks like a UK public housing row. Kind of depressing.
    If I could buy a 4wd Camroad motorhome without a resident visa, equipped with a fuel heater and snow tyres, and be able to store it somewhere near Narita airport for a reasonable fee for 9 or 10 months it would be a very fleible way to travel around. Could also maybe hand it over to a rental company and earn some $ off it outside of when I wanted to use it. Someone has been regularly living in a same Camroad motorhome in the Naeba resort car park during winter. I have it the three times I have been there from 2012-2018. Portable real estate. A depreciating asset sure - but so are a lot the land-based alternatives in Japan that are not mobile.
    https://prestigemotorsport.com.au/vantech-toyota-camroad-motor-home-100-and-200-series/
     
    m2711c and fennekeg like this.
  36. telenomore

    telenomore One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    2,050
    I'm intrigued by this. Capital gains tax in Japan appears to be designed to stop the very practice of churning properties. if you own a property for less than 5 years then the capital gains tax is 30% and the resident tax is 9% so effectively a 39% govt take on the the capital gain. If you sell after the five years of ownership I think it is 15% + 5%. Still high but about half that imposed if the sale is under five years since purchase. I guess if you buy very low and sell very high you might still make money even after paying the 39% but it does seem a stumbling block (a good one in my opinion) to churning and its impact on pricing for locals. Maybe agents have a way around this 5 year limit? Certainly 2 properties I have been involved with the 5 year rule was very relevant to the sellers.
     
    mannyk likes this.
  37. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    Actually, as a result of the bubble economy(to prevent the same tragedy from hapenning), the 5 year rule was made.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  38. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    Actually, real estate agencies in Japan sell the properties they own as well. There are some advantages for the people buying them. Used real estates owned by real estate agencies are often nicely renovated already and if a damage is found within 2 years, they'll compensate for the damage (IIRC)
     
  39. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,119
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    Location:
    The Foothills
    There must be some doubt about whether the Winter Olympics will even run in 2022. Will the best ski/snow athletes in the world really want to go to China in 18 months? Unlikely, I would have thought. Sorry, it's off topic, I know. But perhaps Japan would be better. Facilities are there. And real snow. And snow enthusiasts (some good skiers in Japan).
     
    Hyst and Ramenman like this.
  40. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    Moguls they are arguably the best at the moment.
     
  41. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    I agree, needless to say about Tokyo Olympics, but also Beijin 2022 and even Paris 2024 can be hugely affected by COVID-19.

    What I think is, the communist party of China will make the most of the winter Olympics Beijing in order to enhance national prestige and patriotism among Chinese people. For the purpose, I think Chinese media will broadcast winter sports related tv shows & news quite often. As a result, more and more Chinese people will get interested in skiing. The people who owned properties in Japanese ski resorts which are very popular among tourists from abroad got capital gain and it was caused by tourists from abroad, not by Japanese people. So, if you are trying to buy real estates, expecting for capital gain, it should be where more and more tourists from abroad are likely to visit in the future. In that sense, where Chinese people are going to is very important.

    The population of Taiwan is about 24 millions. About 5 million Taiwanese visited Japan in 2019.

    The population of Hong Kong is about 7.45 millions. About 2.3 million people from Hong Kong visited Japan in 2019.

    So, more than 20% - 30% people from Taiwan and Hong Kong visited Japan in 2019.

    "Only" 9.6 million Chinese people visited Japan in 2019 (it's "Only", considering the population of China).

    I'm not showing properties here from which people on this forum are likely to get capital gain, but if they expect capital gain, they should buy the properties where Chinese people are likely to visit.
     
    Hyst and mannyk like this.
  42. Hyst

    Hyst Enjoyer Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Location:
    Copenhagen
  43. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    Hyst likes this.
  44. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    By the way, this thread suddenly reminded me of an Australian guy who was in a popular Japanese tv show "Why did you come to Japan?". It's a tv show where tv crew randomly pick foreigners at Japanese airports and interview them. If the tv crew think the purposes of their visiting Japan sound interesting, they film what those foreigners are doing in Japan.

    Many Australian people who came to Japan for skiing were interviewed by the tv crew. One of them was a 43 years old guy who came to Japan to build a ski lodge in Niseko from scratch. Interestingly, he rented all chainsaw, excavator, etc and he started from cutting the trees of a forest which he bought in Niseko. He was saying "it will take years". It was about 4 or 5 years ago. I wonder if he has finally finished building his DIY ski lodge there already:p.

    This is the guy. He introduced himself "Peter". "43 years old".
    [​IMG]



    Edit: I couldn't find his video on Youtube, but found another Australian who came to Japan for skiing.
     
    The Bluff and Hyst like this.
  45. Asama

    Asama Addicted

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    366
    Location:
    NW Gunma, Japan 1100m asl
    It's a shit program but sometimes they do meet some genuinely interesting people.
    The "double front light" guy seemed really cool, if you remember him.
    https://doublefrontlight.com/

    I stopped watching it after they introduced a feature where they find a fat foreigner and treat them to dinner... that was clear evidence to me that they'd run out of ideas.
    Also it started running back to back with another show where they'd find someone overseas with an interest in a really niche Japanese hobby (sand painting or Tottori lacquerwork or something like that) and reward them by bringing them to Japan and having them act as a performing monkey... was too cringey to watch!

    Got rid of the TV ultimately as too frequently tempted to throw things at it.

    Sorry, veering off-topic.
     
    skichanger, cold wombat and Hyst like this.
  46. Hyst

    Hyst Enjoyer Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    But different price range! :D
    However the design does not appeal to "westerners" - can not tell about other Asian countries though.
    Design looks for Japanese - very little bath - common sleeping room.
     
    cold wombat and Ramenman like this.
  47. Hyst

    Hyst Enjoyer Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Messages:
    2,188
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    It is one of those programs I have to endure!:whistle:

    However it tells more about the Japanese than about the foreigners going to Japan.
     
    m2711c and Asama like this.
  48. Budgiesmuggler

    Budgiesmuggler A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    9,533
    Likes Received:
    7,406
    m2711c likes this.
  49. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    7,918
    Likes Received:
    5,018
    Oh I am intrigued. I am going to have to find this stuff now.
     
  50. Ramenman

    Ramenman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2014
    Messages:
    4,306
    Likes Received:
    5,381
    This graph is very interesting (for me). The graph is showing the prices of 7 similar apartments in Yuzawa village. The Red line = エンゼルリゾート湯沢 is the one that newly started accepting Airbnb in 2018. Between 2012 and 2018 ( = before they started accepting Airbnb), they were the cheapest as the graph shows (Red line is the apartment). Since 2018, they are by far the most expensive. Before they started Airbnb, the price was only less than 0.2 million Yen (2016 - 2017) but it became 1.8 million Yen, so about 10 times. And actually, even a single room of the apartment is not for sale now (all have been sold out). I guess more apartments will follow.
    [​IMG]
     
    Born2skii likes this.