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Knucklehead Management & Terrain Parks

Discussion in 'Charlotte Pass' started by Nidecker, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Imagine my surprise to look at the snowcams and see a full on terrain park being built AGAIN in the beginner area beside the beginner poma.

    Did the CHILD with the broken leg a couple of years ago not ring some alarm bells with the resort management.

    What a waste of resources in a place where stuff doesn't get groomed cause it didn't fit into the rostered time available, and rocks don't get covered cause there is not enough snow to push around.

    It's an OK spot for a junior skierX / boarderX, it's NOT a suitable location for advanced terrain. Mountain management 101, you gotta think some board riding groomer has pulled the wool over Lachlans eyes! AGAIN!

    It's easy to see that freestyle boarders (largely mountain staff at CP) would love the idea of a dedicated lift beside a terrain park, but the terrain at Charlotte Pass is for the guests, and should be prepared for the guests, not the mountain staff..... **Shakes Head**

    It's like they (the management) are deliberately trying to alienate their base clientele. Perhaps the mountain management are NOT aware of a growing trend away from snowboards in the ski industry currently.

    It looks like, not only that they have widened terrain park another 10 metres or so from last time, so when the standard race is on it will only be a narrow funnel between the park and the race. Worst of all no beginners can get off to the right of the poma, they instead get forced between poma line and chair lift tower, so more beginners are forced to cross poma line to get back to lift queue. Genius!!

    I hear from the locals, snowmaking has been given up on T and solely concentrated on terrain park. SLAPS HEAD!!!

    Have the management not read the latest research into snowboarding. Quotes below!!

    "Perhaps most troubling, the number of kids 14 and younger who first enter snowsports riding snowboards has steadily declined since 2003, from a peak of 42.3 percent of all 14-and-younger snowsports first-timers to a 12-year low of 35.7 percent in 2011."

    "a higher percentage of snowboarders are leaving snowsports than skiers."

    "Last November was a mirror image of November 2002 at Southern California's Mountain High ski area. The same amount of terrain was open for the same number of days — and under nearly identical weather.
    But in November 2002, the 80 percent snowboarder-filled Mountain High swarmed with almost 80,000 visits. Last November, the 290-acre ski area saw barely 42,000 visits.
    We just don't see the fanaticism anymore, with people coming out every day, all day," said Mountain High president Karl Kapuscinski." some quotes from the - denver post

    Then there is the anecdotal evidence about declining interest snowboarding. As a snowboarder with a skier child people often ask me why she skis, and I respond that I would rather she skis before she snowboards. To which the reply is regularly, "oh our kids tried snowboarding for a couple of years, but have gone back to alpine skiing or twin tips"

    Do the mountain managers not get that Charlotte Pass CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be all things to all people. Concentrate on their strengths and leave the gnarly shredders to the resorts that have the "fat" to cater for them.

    I'm over on another thread urging / recommending a newcomer with a family to try out the village, and yet her we are again with this stupidity!
     
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  2. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    An NO it's not a case of "we asked Lachlan if we could do it, and he said yep but only in your own time" IT'S NOT YOUR TERRAIN TO BEGIN WITH!!!

    I remember speaking to ski school last time about this, and they just shook their heads.

    Dum Dum Dum!
     
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  3. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    WOW..
    What a head stuck in sand rant
    parks are for both boarders and skiers.
    parks provide "bang" for pics, video etc.
    also provide impetus for promotion of resort.
    I'm just amazed (but not suprised after checking out some of the attitudes of some of the conservative clientele)this attitude exists
     
  4. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Best place for the park was skiers left of the chair.... just saying.
     
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  5. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would like to think that some of my points are more considered than just a rant [​IMG]

    Donz I know you've been to CP, so you would appreciate that its a little different to other ski resorts in Aus [​IMG]

    It's not so much a park as one really big jump, so pretty useless to 95% of the ski and boarder clientele.

    At Charlotte Pass where resources and skiable terrain are limited, and the clientele are more often than not treated like mugs, this is just another WOFTAM.

    There are plenty of photo ops at CP in around the chutes off Guthries.

    The spot for a big f off jump / park is under the chair skiers left or right [​IMG]
     
    #5 Nidecker, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
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  6. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    How big is said jump?
     
  7. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    40 footer according to locals
     
    #7 Nidecker, Jul 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
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  8. toxicfox

    toxicfox Hard Yards

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    Looks like the Big Air at thredbo, ok maybe a bit smaller, but it is BIG. With a flat landing. Will try and get a pic next to it tomorrow. But its been roped off since we arrived.
    Have to agree with Donza about promotion. It will look good on the snow report. They've had a machine on it most of the day and its still out there. I think the terrain park is necessary these days but Nidecker is wrong on one point. Its more like and extra 20 metres wider.
    Apart from that its been a good day, lots of good grooming this year and snowmaking has been good as well.
     
  9. rocketboy

    rocketboy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I totally agree with Nidecker - last year was the first time the terrain park next to the beginners poma was converted from a customer's fun zone for their children into a staffies over sized terrain park. A young staffie working at Stilwell told me how good it was that they had convinced Lachlan to build it. I told him as a paying customer who brought children to CP it was the dumbest move ever and was going to piss off lots of parents who pay huge amounts of money to go to CP for a week.

    The snow that they have made there should be carted up to Gutteries and put under the Poma line where the kids are currently being lifted up - spun around - and given a Darwin's choice - let go and fall in the track and get run over by the next person coming up or go whack into Tower 5.

    What's even dumber about putting a big Terrain Park next to the lower Poma is that it's blows the lift line out even more and with beginners falling off on a regular basis at this Poma - the queue is just a huge time waste. It's a beginners Poma not a Terrain Park lift for staffies and day trippers on snowboards.

    There is plenty of room higher up for a proper Terrain Park to be built to the left of the chair where little grooming takes place.

    And while we are on rants - the other dumb idea is letting staff use the Tuesday night ski period. Saturday night works out fine as there are often a lot less kids there. Night skiing at CP should be for paying guests and especially their children who should be able to use a beginners Poma for night skiing as a special treat - without having to worry that a bunch of staff on snowboards is going to charge down the hill in a pack and knock 8 year olds over and then hog the limited capacity of the Basin Poma. Have a dedicated staff night some other time during the week. They spend enough of their money at the Cellar the rest of the time and should be rewarded with their own night.

    CP is a family resort and only families are ever going to fill the 700 or so beds available. A week at Charlotte Pass is an expensive indulgence for any family and everything at CP should be based around separating them of those $4000-$8000 year after year and not giving the parents of growing children any reason to venture down the road or overseas.

    These simple tweaks would come close to fixing the few remaining problems at CP - it remains an incredible place like no where else in Australia - and any family who can afford a proper on ski holiday should do so at least once at Charlotte Pass.
     
  10. toxicfox

    toxicfox Hard Yards

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    Yes its in the wrong spot, yes it takes up alot of the beginners slope, and forces beginners to ski between the poma and chair then cross the poma line to rejoin the lift queue, But they have done a pretty god job of a terrain park.

    The big jump is more downscaled (but big enough for backwards and forwards sumersaults) Lots of people were using it, boarders, skiers and kids. It was heaps of fun actually and good to watch the spills.

    I think 'the blight' puts the park there to deliberately piss nidecker off. Time to accept it and move on. Until a kid gets clocked on the head by an errant poma crossing the lift line.
     
  11. jrr

    jrr Hard Yards

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    I'm not convinced either way... but, last year when I took my youngest up for a long weekend for his first time actually riding lifts he had a ball on the terrain park.
    Friday learnt to ride the carpet & did a couple of Poma runs, Saturday couple of Carpet runs & then mainly the Poma with a couple of Chair rides. Sunday Poma & Chair doing the Terrain park jumps & all. He loved it.
    Now he does a lot of skate boarding & has been on the snow a number of times when very young, but I'm not sure that he's particularly unique in being a very 'raw' boarder & yet being able to enjoy the Terrain park after only a few days.
    Still, I'd probably put it over off the T in that area called Pulpit Cornice on the trail map - about a third of the way down. Back in the old days during Race Week, they often set The Jump there...
     
  12. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I was pretty much going off what I could see on the cams.

    Here is my experience/observations regarding a park in that area

    Last year or maybe 2010 it wasn't roped off when the young girl broke her leg.
    whichever year it was, i stood in the ticket office, and watched gobsmacked as the girl behind the counter charged said young girls mum the $10 fee to change her oversnow return, so she could go sit with her child in hospital.

    Same year, I sat with a little boy who had hurt his knee, round the back of the resort. His instructor sat with him while I boarded down to alert ski patrol, I then caught the chair back up and sat with him so the instructor could round up her other young students. 20 mins later the child was taken down the mountain, not with ski patrol, but on a mountain ops skidoo. The whole time this was going on, some chick snowboarder / ski patroller was f#cking round on the jump with a shovel.

    That area there was used by ski school for an appropriately sized terrain park and also for the ski school races and pictures.

    This now either doesnt happen, or further crowds the area on the other side.

    Probably not such an issue these days, as the resort is pretty much devoid of customers anyway.

    Does it piss me off? Not really, mainly cause I'm unlikely to ski CP this year.

    But here is what I think will eventually happen at CP.

    Eventually the owners and mangers will figure out that the PAYING clientele (and returning customers) at CP are parents with children, and those whose kids have grown up, who return for the uncrowded and relaxed atmosphere. Neither group are there for large scale terrain parks.

    Eventually the owners and mangers will figure out that covering the rocks with all that man made rather than piling it up in a jump, would make those wealthier returning ex parents who have money and nice gear happier. It will also cause less damage to the resort rental gear.

    People in aus who are competent enough to tackle a feature of this size, are not going to "hang" at CP.
     
    #12 Nidecker, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  13. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Last year in the week we were there, the only people on it were staff, and never more than 3 from memory. Maybe it's smaller this year? Who knows, I was looking at the cams.
     
    #13 Nidecker, Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  14. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Have hung low on this ATM but have to back Nidecker fully.
    Resources could have been better utilised cutting more trails both side of guthries and left of chair and right of T.No problems with park but I think first location left of chair mid station looking up the hill would be best spot for it.
    The best beginner terrain has now been lost as you are unable to go around the terrain park as it has been roped of to high.When standard race is set the gap between park and race will be luckily be 10 metres wide.
    My observation today was only a trickle of people using the park.Tonight as I type machine again working on the said Jump,it apears he is among it bigger!!
    Please cut some more runs at Guthries!!!!
     
  15. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Update,
    Now 2 groomers in the said park!!
     
  16. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Sigh...... might pass on a pass and just head off to the Main Range every day.....
     
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  17. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Hi Taxman,
    No probs with a park but there is still 99% of your customers that want some expanded groomed runs!!!!
     
  18. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Hi taxman,
    Refress me on your arrival date.
    Sago
     
  19. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    28 July... 11 days to go...

    Actually, ski school still ow me a bib from a cancelled standard race... mind you as that was at least 2 years ago (the great wash out of 2010) I've probably got buckely's....

    Sago, how is internet in the village now.... previous mention of Airlan access.....
     
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  20. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Your lodge has installed it's own hotspot.Far better than Airlan.speak to lodge manager upon arrival.also far better value and doesn't drop out with the first sign of a snowflake.
     
  21. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Woo hoo.... someone one the comittee must have felt the need for connectivity. No more lugging laptop with Telstra 3G wireless to the top of the hill...
     
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  22. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Thank the lodge manager for being proactive!!!!,
     
  23. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Priced very reasonable also!!!!L
     
  24. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Blessed to have legends as managers.
     
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  25. snowduck

    snowduck One of Us

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    Why even bother pushing around heaps of snow to build a terrain park ? Just point the punters in the direction of the legendary Road Gap Jump.

    This, funsters, is the jewel in CP's crown.

    [​IMG]
     
    #25 snowduck, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  26. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Nice video somewhere of Tommy G doing that on tele skis.
     
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  27. Dusty B

    Dusty B One of Us

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    I will refrain from judgement on the park until I get there on 12 Aug. But I will say that after watching the snow report video today with a clip of someone with a helmet cam skiing between rocks to the bottom of the t-bar, and if they have the snowguns pointing exclusively on the kicker in the park, this is not a good move.
     
  28. Sago

    Sago Hard Yards

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    Hi Dusty,
    Doesn't look flash does it??
    Resort does need another good 50cms to really hold us up through August.
    As do all resort's
    Sago
     
  29. Dusty B

    Dusty B One of Us

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    Given the good reports and the comments on great grooming and extra snowmaking, I was surprised to see the rockiness on that video today.

    1.5m base would be great, 2m will be cracking. Can't wait. See you on the mountain when I get there Sago, staying at Pygmy and still skiing on the same horribly ugly skis (Scott punishers, top sheet graphics is known to crack mirrors). Can't miss me.
     
  30. MrPoopypants

    MrPoopypants Hard Yards

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    Okay, I'll jump in with a bit of a rant...

    Some really poor decisions at CPV this year. I've always defended the place, have always loved the place but came away last week thinking it is no longer the place to bring kids - which is a bugger now that I have a 4yr old and a 6yr old and we have season passes.

    The terrain park is dab smack in the middle of the best easy run for kids off the poma. Can't turn right and back down anymore, it's uphill past the terrain park. Dumb. At the least they could have cut the corner, so people could offload the poma and ski past it. Too hard for littlies.

    Now everyone has to go left off the poma, down the same lumpy run and through the edge of the magic carpet beginners area, then cross over the poma run and the exit chute for the area to get back in the queue. Designed by an idiot.

    To make it worse, the ski school seems decidedly anti-little kids. What a change from past years. All new faces and all I heard from them in 6 days of lessons was sarcasm directed at 5 yr olds. Bizzare, why become an instructor if you don't like teaching kids??

    Another weird thing is that, despite the whole family having season passes and plenty of lodge availability, we can't go down as many times as we want, because the oversnows are booked out until lunchtime sats. (have been for weeks) Just can't get in in time to make the weekend worthwhile. I understand having four seats empty is an ask, but they need to be able to meet demand, to be able to make money??? Two weekends we are not going because we can't get in. I could get singles for other weekends for selfish self, but don't they realise families spend more money? Not really interested in the whys, just seems like poor management and that they really can't offer what they advertise.

    I hope it is improving as the season progresses. After many, many, many trips there this is the first time I've come away thinking I'd better stop recommending it to friends.

    Got to agree, though, the grooming has been great, fantastic job getting Guthries open and keeping under the chair looking good. Oh - and Bob the Ski Patroller is awesome with injured four year olds. Top job.

    Who am I kidding? I still love the place...

    Mr PP
     
  31. Leroybrown238

    Leroybrown238 Hard Yards

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    I took the family to CP this winter for the first time ever......all the way from Melbourne! I have a 3 year old and a 6 year old and I would have to say the placement of that terrain park is really stupid. That would have been the ideal run for beginners (my kids and wife). It was roped off most of the week and when it was open it was rarely used. We had such a good week that it didn't really bother me to much, but now that I look back at it, it is just plain stupid. To have the only begineers run end with a narrow steep section into a lift line is less than ideal. That section really scared my wife and I had to CARRY both my kids across it. I was adamant we would go back, but I think I might check if that park is there again before I book. I'm not against terrain parks, but there location needs to make sense.
     
  32. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty

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    Has been discussed at length, the ideal position and where it has been in previous years is skiers' right of the chair lift. Hopefully management is listening (which they seem to be doing) and it will go back to its previous location in future.
     
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  33. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hope so, our club has chalets at Perisher Charlotte and Thredbo, met an awful lot of people at Thredbo this year who used to go to CP [​IMG] hope it turns around in the future.
     
    #33 Nidecker, Oct 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
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