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Ladder pattern chains - facing extinction?

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by teckel, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    You didn't read what I said. It's the quality of the iron, coal and other stuff that impacts the quality of the steel manufactured. Not just the manufacturing process.
     
  2. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Isn't that particular mill doing small batches of high grade tool steels like 440C and D2 and also bi-metal rail?
     
  3. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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  4. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm not aware of the particular steels... (only what mates who work for Bluescope say) However yeah it seems The gong and glenbrook in NZ were making some sort of niche products... With high profit margins.
     
  5. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    So Chinese can manufacture high-grade steel. Do you think they'd use the high grade or the low grade in snow chains?
     
  6. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Nope Sorry but that isn't how a modern smelter works, yes the quality of the coking coal and the degree of purity of the ores is important but a modern smelter can manipulate all of those ingredients in real time and add the scrap metal etc as needed. The process is now as important as the recipe
     
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  7. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    You use the cheapest materials you can at the price you want to charge, that what industry and manufacturing is all about. Metallurgy is a mature science and there are very few secrets these days and most patents have expired, even those "secret" steels from WW2 have been available to users for decades
     
  8. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    What little I know about smelting it is a really fascinating dynamic process.
     
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  9. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Before I went back to school and did an apprenticeship as a cook I was a fitting and machining apprentice at Ford and I learned a little bit. Then I worked with a feller whose family owned a couple of foundries and learned a little bit more but as a chef I have been interested in quality steel for a very long time.
     
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  10. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Teckel I just went and checked the second set of ALDI chains I was given last year. That set definitely say made in China. Makes me wonder how old the set I have are
     
  11. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Or maybe there was a complaint that Aldi was selling chains made in China but labelled as made in Italy? eg: USA is really big on country of origin. Probably some European countries are too.
     
  12. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've got an unused set in Jindy. I'll check them out in June.
     
  13. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod

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    The Chinese will make products as good or bad as the client is prepared to pay for. As someone already said, they have both the best and worst in the world.
     
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  14. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Are they the worst nowadays?
    Vietnam, Cambodia, Bangladesh ... they raise a flag
     
  15. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    this times a bazillion. they are capable of very high standards but if you want crap made to a low price, they can do that too.

    unfortunately some will also make more of a high standard product than the customer ordered and sell them themselves. Others will make crappy copies of a good product and try to pass them off as the original, or supply to people who will.

    the problem with chinese stuff is that you just don't know what you are getting unless you are buying from someone reputable
     
  16. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Having a good agent is critical.
    As a mug aussie punter you won't get access to the good factories. Nor get the good prices.
     
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  17. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod

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    China is certainly moving up the cost curve from what I understand, but they'll still sell you horrible crap if you want it!
     
  18. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    OK. I give up. Bawbaw has changed from asking "Is that a real four wheel drive ?" to "Are those real snow tyres ?"
    Gimme a list of snow tyres that will be approved. They must not cost more than M&S, of course.
    I like Geolandars (old Subaru stuff). Included ?
     
  19. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pirelli Scorpion Winter tyres available at Donnellan's
    • 235/65R17 - $399
    • 255/60R18 - $425
    • 265/50R19 - $525
    • 255/50R20 - $525
    https://www.snowtyresmelbourne.com.au/
     
  20. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hmm. These have run flat sidewalls.
    Run flats seem to be disappearing from inventories because people do not like the harsher ride.
    My personal unflattering runflat experience involved tyre destruction because the puncture warning light depended on difference in rolling radius. A slow leak did not indicate until there was zero air left and threads of chopped up rubber in the tyre. So I next "invested" in a 50 dollar individual pressure reader. The sensors got wiped off when I parked.
    Maybe I could apply a never-wax treatment to M&S tyres to stop the deadly rubber hardening ?
     
  21. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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  22. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    "The Alpine Resorts Act wheel chain regulations for Victoria are currently being reviewed.
    Future Victorian wheel chain regulations will come from VicRoads and will include a requirement that wheel chains comply with the European ON-V5117 Standard. Ladder chains will not be approved."
    Groan , more advertorials..
    I will say it again , most accidents occur on snowy roads cos drivers are going too fast for the conditions.
    The only consistently serious snowy road in Australia is Hotham.
    It is quite easy to slide on black ice in 4WD with ABS and with diamond chains.
    No amount of banging on about regulations will fix male behaviour.
     
  23. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    For those forest operations behind enemy lines you need something that provides max grip when the family are snigging a few logs off the batter edge......Team Bears say go with the Maxxis......
     
  24. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    MA-751 for RAV4 ?
    Beware new version with bad mileage. Can't go wrong with second hand Michies IMO.
     
  25. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well, got some Geolandars. $42 each. (plus 10 hour drive, add fitting, etc etc )
    They don't have a snowflake but are labelled A/T*S. Maybe means Snow or Soft Sidewalls. (Probably easy to stake.)
    Personal anecdote :
    Once stuck waitin for the Grit Truck while lots of Subies roared past.
    Had managed to get two thirds up by driving my tiny rental Toy backwards. :(
     
  26. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    This thread's meant to be about ladder chains, not snowflakes on tyres ;)
    Yes, I know. Someone always tries to hijack any thread about wheels (and has therefore confused the 2 topics), but if we could keep at least this one to the merits or otherwise of ladder chains vs other chains. Plenty of other threads about snowflakes on tyres.
    BTW, I heard about "Y" chains the other day. Konig used to make them, way back when.
     
  27. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sorry. I got snowfflakes on mi mind.
    Even thought it was [​IMG] "Snowflake, Can't Hold A Candle To You" once.
    But u must admit that the topics are corelative.
    Miss mi ladders. I kept extending them until, on a night of snowflakes, they were stolen right off the wh**** .
    Do u have an illustrative description of Y chains ?
     
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  28. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    LOL
    I thought the Y chains were possibly an idea after ladder chains but before the diamond pattern became the accepted one. If you can imagine a 'Y' on the tyre - something between the straight of the ladder and the diamond pattern we now know?
     
  29. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Teckel I'll need a picture as I don't think I have ever seen a "Y" chain.
     
  30. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sorry, don't have a picture. Google can't find one either. I was offered a set - brand new, sight unseen, but from a highly reputable source. I knocked them back.
     
  31. Aractus

    Aractus Early Days

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    I have a set of ladders as my backup chains (the XS/Aldi chains don't appear to be that strong but they do the job). There's nothing wrong with ladders, it's just the "quick fit" style ones with the rigid hoops are a poor design. They'd be better if the hoop was on the inside only as it would make tensioning much more straight forward.
     
  32. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    rowdyFlat this is spot on. Amazingly, I have read somewhere that people used to drive the Hotham road with ladder chains, in old 2wd vehicles, and.....when we actually got snow. ;););)

    These chain regulation changes I am guessing are being pushed by external sources
     
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  33. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    In the eighties at Hotham there werent that many skiers who drove 4WDs , so of course there were heaps of cars using ladder chains, including me with a Corolla and ladder chains which had links worn flat.
     
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  34. MidLifeMadman

    MidLifeMadman Hard Yards

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    In NZ the ladder chain is king. :emoji_crown:
     
  35. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ladder chains always have and always will work, but diamond pattern are better
    In the same way you could still ski on old straight skis, but why would you want to?
     
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  36. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just like a lot of old safety features for cars used to 'work'. But then when new technology comes along which is clearly superior, the old technology is no longer satisfactory and become illegal. Hell, when I was a kid there were no seatbelts. I didn't die, so why should I have to wear a seatbelt today? Drum brakes used to slow a car, but who would have drum brakes on their car today? (Yeah, I know they're still legal, but no one has them) I'm sure there's better examples. Not being a petrol head, I wouldn't know. Petrol head experts do; not people on a forum.
     
  37. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    I thought ladder chains were banned a while ago for use in alpine resorts in Vic and NSW due to their inferiority to diamond pattern chains? Even if they aren't banned why use clearly inferior safety gear?
     
  38. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Still saw some ladder chains in use at LM last Sunday on 2WDs.
     
  39. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Had a quick lookup.
    Ladder chains are banned at Hotham and Baw Baw. No mention of that for LM and Falls so looks like ye olde ladders are still allowed there. Haven't looked up NSW.
     
  40. Goski

    Goski Addicted

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    Buller and Stirling and Gwinear also don't preclude ladder chains. I'm surprised! Looking forward to the new rule that will reduce the chance of another driver relying on ladder chains when they are ahead of me or coming towards me. Plus if everyone with chains fitted has diamond pattern there may be less road blockages by cars going askew and crashing in inconvenient spots.
     
  41. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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  42. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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  43. Aractus

    Aractus Early Days

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    On Saturday I saw ladders that were very loose on a vehicle going in the opposite direction.
     
  44. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well, Baw Baw has bitten the bullet and today insisted on chains fitted to your AWD, even if it has been "invested" with Nokians.
    It had to happen, nobody can argue that their little car is a big car.
    4WD are exempt. Drive up with no tyres at all, if you wish. :)
     
  45. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sorry, was off topic.
    Diamond pattern can be poor performers, too.
    Mr T broke a rubber tensioner. One unnamed product is covered with rubber tensioners, recommended price 10 times that of an Aldi model, but with rubber bits like Chinese Occy Straps. Can you buy replacements ? Nah.
     
  46. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    How old are your chains?
     
  47. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I agree with you 100%. I have never allowed a ladder pattern chain in my shop (with the exception of large coach chains).
    • Put it this way: ladder chains are cheaper and therefore provide a better return for the ski hires that hire them out.
    • Put it my way: if I wouldn't put ladder chains on my car, why should I expect my customers to put them on their cars?
    BTW, I hire out my diamond pattern chains for less than my competitors hire out their ladder pattern.
     
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  48. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

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    Asked about chains in an unnamed Auto shop. They said "We don't have your size, except for the one on display."
    I broke a Rubber with pressure of two fingers ! No sale..