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Latest addition to summit of Bogong

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Craig D., Jan 16, 2007.

  1. Craig D.

    Craig D. Hard Yards

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    Headed up to Bogong on the weekend for a bit of a stroll and noticed the profile of the old summit cairn had changed somewhat...

    [​IMG]

    Inscription on cross reads 'Christus Vincit' (Christ Conquers)

    [​IMG]

    Logbook entry at Cleve Cole

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 Craig D., Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  2. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    FFS. Is this Italy ? Like I have said befrore, you Victorians area a weird, weird mob [​IMG]
     
    #2 climberman, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  3. positron

    positron Hard Yards Endless Winter

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    #3 positron, Jan 16, 2007
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  4. simo_tele

    simo_tele One of Us

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    I'm all for people believing in what they want, expressing their faith etc. but this hardly seems appropriate.
    Persoanlly I'm not offended nor majorly bothered by it but it seems a little misguided.

    Probably be blown over/away in the next storm anyway if no-one removes it before hand.
     
  5. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I give it two weeks. Four if the weather is cold.
     
  6. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator

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    Tell the Victorian equivalents of NPWS. DSE?

    It's just plain wrong. Next there will be some other group wanting to put a crescent up there....

    [​IMG]
     
    #6 VSG, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  7. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    I want to put up a HUUUUUGGGGEEEEE poster of Jenna. Is that wrong ?
     
  8. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    thinking about this there is no difference between this and spraypainting graffiti.
     
  9. 1080 Fox Bait

    1080 Fox Bait First Runs

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    That is pathetic, I hope there is a charge that can be brought against the school for this. Though it does provide for a convenient urinal.
     
  10. D-eye

    D-eye Photographer and skier Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Anyone up for a trip ? I think a crescent would go well on top of the cross :evil:
     
    #10 D-eye, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  11. JAM

    JAM Hard Yards

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    There's a similar cross at South Point at Wilsons Prom. The religious crazies are trying to take over.

    JAM
     
  12. simo_tele

    simo_tele One of Us

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    hang on...maybe it's all a sham...perhaps they are just trying to make bogong that little big higher so it fits in with it's cousins to the north
    :p
     
  13. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well the Cairn has been looking pretty sick for the last few years, I was thinking about getting a group together to rebuild it. But it looks like someone has done it for us [​IMG]

    Don't worry about the God-Botherers, (Roman Catholic by the look of their words), the old steel pole in the cairn was constsntly being struck be lightning, which is why it was so badly split. I assure you that no action is neccesary. The Weather Gods will zap that crucifix out of existence in the next few months with a well aimed lighning bolt.

    Thanks to the God-botherers for restoring the cairn. We should also be thankful that they're so ignorant of mountain weather that lightning strikes hadn't occured to them [​IMG]
     
    #13 Bogong, Jan 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  14. Shaggy

    Shaggy First Runs Endless Winter

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    will be funny to see,... Headlines: "God Burns own cross"
     
  15. Alex.C

    Alex.C One of Us

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    I give it a month at most. If not, hopefully it doesn't start yet another fire if it gets hit by lightning and scatters burning embers around.
     
  16. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hmmm... Remind me not to take any friends of "migrant" background to Mt Beauty when there's any chance of lightning. If they saw a burning cross on top of a hill, it might give them the wrong idea [​IMG]
     
    #16 Bogong, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  17. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just wondering if it constitutes littering, and PV could actually impose a fine given they left their names?
     
  18. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    More woke than thou.
    Looking at the Cleve Cole Hut logbook entry, they didn't leave their names, but they did leave their religion and town. So all they have to do is phone up the Catholic vicar in Tynong. I'm sure he/she would have ideas on which religious loonies did it.
     
  19. The Juggernaut

    The Juggernaut First Runs

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    I've seen much worse things done in the high country....................

    It will disappear in time (< 1 month)either by natural forces or by some of you who feel strongly enough that it has to go.

    Naturally it's not the right thing to do as soon we'd have every peak covered in Stars of David, Crescents, Crosses and the like. Not to mention the sensitivities of other Bogong visitors etc..

    I would suggest someone in relation to the erection of this is contacted and advised of the illogicality on many fronts of engaging in this practise.
     
  20. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    +1.

    Nice bit of firewood.....and dont need a saw to fit it in the Cole heater, just a spanner.
     
    #20 GS, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  21. positron

    positron Hard Yards Endless Winter

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    The email address of the principal of the school the KOOL team belongs to is principal@stac.vic.edu.au.

    A contact phone number is (03) 5629 2500. :angel:
     
    #21 positron, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  22. Alex.C

    Alex.C One of Us

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    [​IMG] :thumbs:
     
    #22 Alex.C, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  23. hongomania

    hongomania One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    so who wants to come up there with me with a sledgehammer and take video/pics of smashing it into pieces! after reading the log book entry its apparent that whoever wrote it is taking his religion a bit too far......
     
  24. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    your name isnt exactly atheistic
     
  25. The Juggernaut

    The Juggernaut First Runs

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    well if you guys are happy I will send an email through to the principal.

    What say you??

    Thanks for the info Positron, have you taken the liberty of contacting them?
     
  26. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Good idea. I am in favour of it being removed from the National Park/Public land
     
    #26 GS, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  27. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perhaps if the 12 year olds really feel like hard work they could take a few slabs up for me for winter.
     
  28. Craig D.

    Craig D. Hard Yards

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    Glad to see so many people had the same feelings as me! I left a logbook entry stating my feelings, though I must admit I toned it down a lot! I haven't contacted Parks yet; thought I would post it on here first and judge the opinion of fellow park users first [​IMG]

    He made darkness his canopy around him the dark rain clouds of the sky. Out of the brightness of his presence bolts of lightning blazed forth. The LORD thundered from heaven; the voice of the Most High resounded. (Samuel 22:12-14)

    [​IMG] :thumbs:
     
    #28 Craig D., Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  29. PK Sawd

    PK Sawd Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's nice to see 12 year olds getting some vigorous exercise rather than slouching around on the couch playing with the Wii or the XBOX or _______ (insert other mindless fat-making device names here).

    If you do contact the people then make it a positive contribution. Emphasise the "leave only footprints, take only memories" concept and let them feel good about their achievements. I'd like to see many more teenagers become backcountryers for life.
     
  30. madskierNZ

    madskierNZ First Runs

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    The great and glorious FSM will deal to it soon enough.......or it might just fall over. [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    #30 madskierNZ, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  31. positron

    positron Hard Yards Endless Winter

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    I sent him an email asking for him to oversee the timely removal of the said vandalism. I also stated that I have forwared Parks Victoria 'Knights of Our Ladies/ St. Thomas Aquinas Colleges' contact details.
     
    #31 positron, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  32. positron

    positron Hard Yards Endless Winter

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    The wheels are moving [​IMG]
     
    #32 positron, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  33. trappers

    trappers Safety not guaranteed Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I sent them an email as well ... this type of religious crap really gets up my nose.
    Enforcing beliefs on others in a public space in a beautiful natural environment is just wrong wrong wrong ... hopefully it has been pulled down by now, if not by the DSE, by someone else who respects the fact that the Victorian wilderness is for everyone, Muslims, Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, not just Christians. :rolleyes:
     
  34. surveyorcam

    surveyorcam Hard Yards

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    I sent them an email as well. Stayed pretty positive. Didn't attack their beliefs just explained how they were attacking mine.
     
  35. TeleTangler

    TeleTangler First Runs

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    Ditto to sending them an email. Got the same responce as above. Kept it all quite civil and just pointed out the inappropriateness of erecting religious symbols on public land irrespective of the laws that had been broken.

    I bet you it ends up being the National Parks people who pull it down though. The tiny proportion of fringe nutters who do this kind of crap tend to be quite self righteous and will probably refuse to admit they have done wrong.
     
  36. agentBM

    agentBM Part of the Furniture

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    I can't see a problem with it....we live in a christian country and vote in a system ending with God save the queen....there are many mountians around the world like this - doesn't hurt does it? I reckon if people get offended by this, why....do they need to be offended, do they just want to pick something? I am not religious but I can't see a problem with it.....anyway, the message on it is very positive if you look at what christ represents.....really, which is a lot more positive than snow or weather related forums here at times. In my opinion, if one voices opposition to christian things, but then votes in a christian system, they are hypocritical because if they really wanted change, then they would act, not give in and just vote because it is compulsory or something. Takes a bit of guts to make your faith known too....must have negative reactions all the time....imagine being told to f off, yet you are strong enough to continue to the next house.

    And...it is not a crucifix, as a crucific has Jesus on it....it is a cross. Just my opinion which really matters 5h1t.

    quote:

    "Enforcing beliefs on others in a public space in a beautiful natural environment is just wrong wrong wrong" Sorry mate - gotta laugh hey. Imagine a bush walker when he walks up the mountain and sees ski lift infrastructure, or a daggy old wooden ski lodge...."freaking skiers forcing us to look at that 5h1t that spoils the natural beauty".
     
  37. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bergy, It's different to The Cross on Mt Macedon. That has been there for 80 years AND it's a memorial to our soldiers who died in wars AND it's in a populated area AND it's ecumenical, it carefully avoids nominating any single Christian denomination. These four factors don't apply to MT Bogong. It doesn't belong there, it's not discreet and it's offensive.

    I also sent an email to the school and got the same polite but do-nothing response. If it's not school members then it will be locals that the local RC minister will know. If the Weather Gods don't zap it in the next few days, I may send an email to his boss (Is that the local Bishop?) Does anyone know the Catholic Bishop of Gippsland's email?
     
  38. tim6

    tim6 First Runs

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    Pretty bad stuff. Bloody religious freaks. Why would you carry a cross up there just stupid.
     
  39. Toddo

    Toddo One of Us

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    i have no problem with the cross, but the journal entry about claiming mt bogong and victoria is a bit much.
     
  40. TeleTangler

    TeleTangler First Runs

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    "I can't see a problem with it....we live in a christian country"

    Well I suspect they will have broken some law by erecting a structure in a National Park without consent.

    Also last time I checked Australia was a constitutional monarchy with prescribed freedoms to exercise any religion. If people want to erect crosses on their own land fair enough. But not on land we all share.
     
  41. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    there are plenty of crosses and plaques in the wilds in memory of folk (who died, war dead etc)... I think these are appropriate. I figure this sort of stuff only puts those memorials at risk.

    As the inscription reads.. some were 12 years old- I'd guess 10 of them weren't. KOOL are popular with the "Society of Saint Pius X" aka SSPX. to give you an idea of what they are like, Mel Gibson's dad left them because they weren't conservative/traditional enough.

    Tynong has a SSPX school.. The local RC parish priest would most likely have nothing to do with the SSPX crowd because they would have nothing to do with him... he would be perceived as being in error and not following the true path of RC. The bishop would tolerate them at best for much the same reasons. SSPX couldn't care less if you complained.. I'd suggest taking it down respectfully and posting it to KOOL c/o TA school at Tynong with a note saying it's for its own protection.
     
  42. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks Majikthise, I knew that the Catholics had lots of little sub-denominations within their denomination, but I never understood quite how complex it was!
    So this mob aren't answerable to their local priest or even the local bishop [​IMG] Who do should I contact with a polite, respectful email, the archbishop or have do I have to go to the pope?
     
    #42 Bogong, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  43. Fangin'Wolvy

    Fangin'Wolvy First Runs

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    Hope it's removed.

    If they go through the appropriate channels and seek permission then I wouldn't consider it vandalism.
    I think they ought to be charged quite frankly, worse still they are an organisation let this be an example of what not to do. They ought to know better. Religion has jack all to do with it.
     
  44. JAM

    JAM Hard Yards

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    Berg, we actually live in a secular country where we might laugh at religious crazies but tolerate them so long as they keep their superstitions to themselves. Erecting crosses on Mt Bogong and South Point is not keeping their superstitions to themselves.

    Sure Christians have done worse things, but we could do without this.

    JAM
     
    #44 JAM, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  45. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    difficult question bogong.. do a search on SSPX and schism to explore some of the frutier corners of the WWW.

    according to here the head honcho in australia of SSPX don't read emails.

    If you really wanted to contact the folk behind this I'd suggest snail mail addressed simply to " Militia Sanctae Mariae" c/o the tynong school address. that would definitely get to them and they'd probably even open it. I still think a respectful disassembly and return for safe keeping would be the most effective strategy.
     
    #45 Majikthise, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  46. sidetrack

    sidetrack One of Us

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    Sounds like a Current Affair story to me.
     
  47. CaptainC

    CaptainC Addicted

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    The problem is that Mt Bogong is owned by the State of Victoria and managed by Parks Victoria. You shouldn't put up a monument to something without their approval. It's the same as you can't go to your local park and put up a monument to the ANZACS, or firefighters or whoever without the Council's approval. And while the majority of Australians are probably Christian this is an Catholic type of monument and many Protestants and Orthodox are likely to feel that way. And even if Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, atheists etc are a minority they have rights not to have Christianity pushed at them too much. Which is why, before the cross was put there, the school should have sought permission from Parks Vic who could have weighed up whether it was appropriate.
     
    #47 CaptainC, Jan 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 17, 2013
  48. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, look what happened to the peopled shrine in the Bot Gardens neat the Bowl that the original custodians of this land tried to install.
     
  49. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don't have a major problem with the cross itself. It is very common in Austria for example to see crosses on mountain summits. The inscription is definately a bit rich though.
     
  50. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    I sent the principal an email last night as a CFA member pointing out that it could cause fires. I got the same response as others.