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Legal implications behind snow country incidents

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by sly_karma, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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  2. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah they've been brought up recently, very interesting. I say g'luck to the first. The second is much more consequential.
     
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  3. Chaeron

    Chaeron Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak Ski Pass: Gold

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    Liability exposure and associated insurance challenges in Australia has seen an attempt by some parties to ‘professionalise’ outdoor activities - i.e. certification requirements for those who lead club expeditions, and a movement to regulate what commercial operators want to define as an ‘industry’.

    This was happening in NSW & VIC, but there was some pushback. Still, uni rock climbing clubs and similar organisations have rejigged their public liability insurance and have also tightened their membership and administrative procedures in response.
     
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  4. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pretty ballsy of the county in the CO case to go for damages to equipment. Doesn't matter whether the slide was human triggered or not, if it wasn't parked in a slide zone in the first place, it wouldn't have been damaged.
     
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  5. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    Can only lead to attempts at access prevention.
     
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  6. echidna

    echidna Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  7. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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  8. Tanuki

    Tanuki Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    See me in court tomorrow morning 10am. I'll have the deposition ready. Just an excuse to get outside now that the lockdown had been lifted.
     
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  9. echidna

    echidna Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Would it be so different to our no-fault Workcover, or even no-fault divorce for that matter ? ;)

    Ooooh I'm gonna get some hate from the ski.com legal demographic.
     
  10. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Friends used to run Australias biggest MTB race, but escalating insurance costs, (hence higher entry) and falling numbers, and its a thing of the past.

    A heck of a lot of people get hurt skiing, and even more (per capita) on MTB, does this mean the terms of a ticket actually work, ie, at own risk? So you can only sue if you can prove your injury was caused by anothers negligence?
     
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  11. Donzah

    Donzah Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Kinda NZ in a nutshell.
    Take their access roads to ski hills for instance.
    Steep drop off on one side. Put a White post.
    Crazy steep drop off... Put a bigger white post.
     
  12. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is America (USA), they will sue for anything. Neither case would have any legitimacy in any other jurisdiction. And the CEO needs to be taken back to Everest and given a might shove off a precipice.
     
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  13. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Can't say I noticed to many of these in NZ.
     
  14. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Everest case is laughable and demonstrates the attitude that all you need to do to succeed in these extreme activities is enough money.

    The second with the Avy is most curious and has huge potential set the wrong sort of precedents. My conclusion is the County suing should sue itself for not closing the slope / access to it which endangered it's equipment. Therefore it is equally at fault in the scenario based on the information available.
     
  15. Gimped

    Gimped One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    No such thing...the employer is always at fault.
     
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  16. Donzah

    Donzah Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Obviously on the safe roads then.
     
  17. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Then there's Mexico. Riding in the back of a ute? Way of life. Live fireworks shows with zero barricades or crowd control? No worries. Vehicle inspections? Nah. Restaurant inspections? I could go on. Now, do they have higher rates of injury and mortality? You'd think so, but it's tacitly accepted.
     
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  18. echidna

    echidna Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    (cough cough) AFL, NRL, Union (cough cough)

    Maybe not so much mortality, but injury is a badge of honour.
     
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  19. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I thought the frozen mud, view, single track and switchbacks of the Remarks road was impressive. An empty bus went over the edge while I was there.

    Best was being at the back of the back bowl shuttle bus which is hung out over the abyss with the rear wheels run right to the very very edge while doing a 3 point turn after loading (why after???) to take us back.

    The Cardrona trail was pretty good too.
     
  20. Donzah

    Donzah Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    TC road is the gnarliest in Otago.
    Mind you Mt Olympus
    [​IMG]

    And Lyford are pretty crazy

    [​IMG]
     
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  21. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    So I just googled bus accidents at the Remarkables. Apparently there have been a few. We went there in the early 1990s. Whilst the road was "interesting" we did not think it was that bad. We had hired cars and noted that once we got in the ruts caused by the buses it would be hard to get out of them and thus there was not an issue unless the buses went off the edge. mmmm

    Cardrona and the Crown of the range road were meant to be pretty bad. But they were ok. As always, drive to the conditons.

    I went to Mt Hutt in 1980. Having the bus do a 3 point turn to take some of the cornes was interesting. People I stayed with in Christchurch had narrowly escaped going of the edge with their VW beetle a bit before we were there. Definitely one of the most challenging roads I have traveled on.
     
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  22. skichanger

    skichanger A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    So much so wrong with both those cases.

    2nd case is a bit like Victoria and some of the people who have caught Covid-19. Even if you have done something wrong the authorities need to know what has happened. Punish people and they stop providing essential information which just makes things worse.
     
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  23. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    Re the Everest case. A mountain guide and ski guides primary goal is to get the clients home safely.

    Fun, adventure & accomplishing set goals, are all secondary to the primary objective of safety. ie keeping your guests alive. As a guide, it's not a good look when you get people killed. Not great for the career.

    Hell! that's why guides exist. If that clown wanted to climb Everest without regard to the conditions and the safety calls why did he bother hiring a guide. He hired a guide to leverage his or her experience, knowledge, decision making abilities in a challenging environment, networking and team working abilities to dial in the collective wisdom of the broader Everest climbing community to keep him alive. Fnkn knob.
     
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  24. essjaywhy

    essjaywhy One of Us

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    Fox Peak Ski area is a pretty engaging Road as well,

    the New Zealand Acc system is pretty good but one of the negatives is that there’s a real lack of personal accountability, yeah I’m a beginner snowboarder from offshore ~ I can jump off this bluff and if it goes wrong well I don’t pay any medical bills directly , so what the heck

    This year I hosted off-road cyclist from Spain doing 3000 km and was utterly stunned when they said they had no personal travel medical insurance here, just relying on The accident compensation system and free medical
     
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  25. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ohau? Local school bus goes up there, apparently.
     
  26. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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  27. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah, if it's correct that the danger rating was "Moderate" at the time, the skiers were really not doing anything wrong. If it was "High" than it's a more nuanced question.

    So would they blame the CAIC (the forecasters?) Do we blame the BOM if they don't get a storm warning right and flash flood/hail damage happens that might have been mitigated?

    Colorado being the hell of unstable snow that it is, they often have a difficult condition I've heard jokingly called "Scary Moderate" where there is a low possibility of a high magnitude slide - it's very unlikely the slope will release, but if it does go, the whole thing will go. I'd guess this avalanche happened with similar conditions.
     
  28. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    The last time I was at Olympus, 4WD's were putting on four chains, we helped a young bloke who almost rolled his mothers new Prado off the edge. The car slid 50 metres back down the road just up from the lower hut with us trying to guide it away from the edge as we slid with it. That wasn't too much fun. The road was like an ice rink.
    When we did get up there the snow was awesome, from the overnight dump.
     
  29. shabu_shabu

    shabu_shabu One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    A woman has lost her Supreme Court case where she sued Perisher after being hit by a Perisher ski instructor on Olympic back in 2014. The instructor is named in the decision for those who are curious..

    https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/175debe1990ff645a9fb70ba

    From the today's SMH article on the decision:
    "Perisher Ski Resort is not liable to pay damages to a woman who was injured when one of its ski instructors collided with her because the accident was an "obvious risk" of engaging in a dangerous recreational activity, the NSW Supreme Court has found.

    Justice Richard Cavanagh found in a decision this month an August 2014 collision between the woman and a ski instructor employed by Perisher, both competent and experienced skiers who were not skiing together, was caused by the negligence of the instructor.

    However, Justice Cavanagh found Perisher did not have to pay damages because it could rely on a defence in the state's Civil Liability Act (CLA) which carves out liability for negligence in cases where the harm suffered by a person is the "result of the materialisation of an obvious risk of a dangerous recreational activity"."
    Apparently skiing is a dangerous sport. Go figure.
     
  30. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver A Local

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    I've edited this post several times as I keep changing my mind over whether this is right or not.
    Is this judgement a fair assessment of the situation.

    Skiing is a dangerous activity, particularly within the resort boundary. Collisions and accidents do happen regularly. If witnesses confirm that both parties were skiing in control and not being reckless and it was an accident then, it is what it is. So from that perspective I agree with the judgement, provided neither party was proved to be negligent.

    But if one party was skiing way too fast and / or out of control and endangering others then it may be a different story. The onus of proof would need to be considerable I would imagine.

    This would be an interesting discussion with the legal eagles we have on the forum.

    How far would someone have to go to clearly prove the other party was being recklessly negligent???? Would witnesses alone suffice??? In this case where the instructor was found to be negligent, one can only assume suing a ski instructor isn't going to be worthwhile, whereas going after the resort far more potential.

    I was of the belief that the resorts insurance covered any accidents involving staff. Not sure, is this a claim over and above an insurance payout??? Has this woman received any reparation for her injuries???
     
    #29 DPS Driver, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
  31. Beerman

    Beerman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’ve driven up most of the NZ ski areas mentioned above in 1996, in a 4 berth camper :).
    Please recommence normal viewing.