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logging at Glen Wills/ Mt Wills

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Cam Walker, Apr 4, 2010.

  1. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    No only you right wing nutters into conspiracy theories and such have a great distrust of bureaucracies. If you want better data look it up yourself. I get sick and tired of having to try and educate some of the intellectual deadwood found on these forums.
     
    #101 Go Native, Apr 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  2. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Well said!!
     
  3. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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  4. rootroot

    rootroot First Runs

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    I question your viewpoint and ask you to justify your assumptions which means i am a right wing nut - how very accepting and open to different ideas you are, fascist
     
    #104 rootroot, Apr 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  5. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    So the timber industry does not need to find very much land at all to establish it's own forests on?

    Given we import timber and we have more than enough land to grow our own timber and demand for timber may rise in the future (unsure about this latter point but suspect strongly that demand must rise with population growth and reduction in use of oil based products) and at some point the finite resource in timber from other countries will dry up the need to grow more of to all our own timber should become greater.

    Or do we increase imports of timber and timber based products at let people overseas deal with their own issues with timber getting?

    Certainly the grow our own strategy should increase the number of jobs in Australia.

    But at the end of the day other countries clearly do also not charge enough for their timber.
     
    #105 skifree, Apr 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  6. rootroot

    rootroot First Runs

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    Facts:

    Victoria has 3.4 million hectares of State Forest;

    Conservation and environmental initiatives account for 79% of Victorian public land use;

    During 2006/07 VicForests harvested 0.16% of Victoria's State Forests, equivalent to 0.08% of Victoria's forested land;

    Only 13,916 ha of hardwood plantation are managed for sawlog production. The remaining 161,000 are managed on short rotations for fibre production;

    Australia's trade deficit in forest products is currently $2.02 billion - thats a hell of a lot of imported rainforest!!

    The proposed coupes in question are all composed of E. delegatensis (alpine ash) which originates from the 1920s, 1930s, or 1940s. IT IS NOT OLD GROWTH STUPID.
     
  7. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Never said it was.
     
  8. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    RS I was more referencing how much of the Australian landscape has adapted to 40k years of anthropogenic disturbance and now requires anthropogenic disturbance to maintain much of the landscape. To just leave it alone is a management decision to allow the landscape to degrade (presuming you want a pre white Australia landscape), just look at most wilderness area's (code for not managed) in Australia, full of weeds and ferals.

    The New Zealand Landscape however has a very different history and a very different relationship to anthropogenic disturbance.
     
  9. The Bush Patrol

    The Bush Patrol Addicted

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    There is always two sides to every argument. I have mates in the logging industry & they have mouths to feed & a job to do because K Rudd needs them to work too. Those that think that they can clean the forest of fire effected lumber only are living in dream land, the lads are not going to just walk past the crimson folage of an australian red ceder in autumn at 3-5K per baulk to pick up scraps off the ground, they look for lumber in their gazetted areas that puts the companies they work for in a sustained posititon to provide for their families & future jobs for their siblings.
    The core argument in this thread is the logging in alpine areas, not sub alpine, or plantation which seems to be where some have steered it. Alpine lumber has close growth rings for one reason, because it grows real slow. They dont re-plant these areas because they won't be able to logg the regrowth in their grandchildrens life time. The dead wooding of hardwood forests is not economically viable because of access & only really works in plantation regrowth where cable (flying fox) extraction of strip felled lumber due to space between trees that allows it. The forestry have been looking forever for a solution but none found to date.
     
  10. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks TBP, some sensible answers to my queries. Food for thought there.
     
  11. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I am a human and part of the "natural-environment" have i missed something here or what.Leaving something alone willnot necessarily be in the best interests of the the forest ecosystem.May be we have been to good at suppression of wild fire and now lots of forest fuel(biomass): i like that word!climatic change meaning that likely hood of bad fire conditions will continue so we need to manage this Hot Fire situation and to moderate it or slow it down so that it not fry the b/j out of our forests.Intervention by humans is good
     
  12. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    not evil.Natural is human too.We are animals of the ecosystem too.There are feral plants diseases blackberries goats,deer rabbits they aint ganna sort this problem out themselves for the benefit of other members of the ecosystem.Worst problem is those fixated by what is natural or unnatural.
     
  13. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Thread bump. Doing some research and my partner came across this thread and it is interesting in that there is a new thread regarding the survey 'Future of our Forests'. The old thread took a few left turns from the original topic but 9 years on and the water supply for Glen Wills and Glen Valley is still threatened. There are not too many coupe left in the area to be logged and the one on Glen Wills creek is still listed. For almost 20 years the residents of this area have tried in vain to have this one logging coupe removed from the list. It would not amount to a shut down of logging or the loss of jobs but this creek has been the water supply for the town for over 100 years. A point lost on many people who have posted here. What effect will logging have. Firstly, when it rains the creek will fill with mud until the area gets some dirt holding vegetation. Secondly, when the new growth trees get to 12 years of age, they will suck the water from the ground which normally would end up in the creek, leaving it dry. This creek saved the town during the 2003 fires and Vic Forests plan is to stop its flow. Promises from politicians have done nothing to change the situation. @Cam Walker was looking to have two coupes removed. Just one on Glen Wills Creek would be enough. The local ranger has asked if he can take me to a number of logging coupes in the Mt. Wills area this week, to show me how English Broom is being spread. The mess left behind when the contractors finish is a disgrace and DELWP do very little to police it. We would expect the same thing to happen if this one coupe is logged.

    Its bad enough we have to fight a mining company who wants to set up a cyanide treatment plant on the creek and then put up with the threat of no creek water at all if Vic Forests get their way.

    Don't get distracted. This is about water supply and not logging. But who cares? It is not Melbourne. I think the survey has ended but it is still good for you to understand the issues.
     
    Chaeron, The Plowking, Wally and 5 others like this.
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes.
    A while ago The Age ran a piece on the water value of forests around Melbourne and it was way more than the wood value.