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Marker kingpin v Salomon Shift

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by Annabuzzy, Jul 17, 2019.

  1. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    So....I’m looking to buy a one binding to rule them all style AT binding. What I’d be looking to do is mount them on a relatively heavy ski with a waist width of around 103-105mm. I’m contemplating the Volvo Mantra 102 or Nordic’s Enforcer Free 104 but I’ll keep my choices open until time of actual purchase. I need to stagger my purchases simply for reasons of cash flow management so the bindings come first.

    These skis would be intended to have one major purpose, and that is to serve as a OSQ for Japanese trips. The use would be something like 50% in bounds off piste, 30% groomed, and 10-20% side country. I’m being realistic - in bounds will dominate. The tours would generally be from the top of existing lifts and no more than an hour hike.

    They’d be used with Lange XT Free 110 but I may look to stiffen them up for the intended predominantly in bounds purpose.

    I may also use them in Oz for short trips such a to twin valleys. No major touring in the sense of long distances.

    I think the shift would be ideal, but the Kingpin looks pretty good and I can get it more inexpensively.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. Chubby_Cluster

    Chubby_Cluster Hard Yards

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    I went down a similar path and line of thinking.The Shifts would not fit my Atomic boots so had to stick with some G3 Ions mounted to some Volkl Mantra V.Werks as I already had a great experience with Mantras inbounds over the last 4 years. I had a chance to give them a good work out over the last 4 days in crud and ice to wind blown. The lighter VWerks is revelation for me, strong but nimble and my legs appreciated the lighter weight. The Shifts would be a great compromise, and I have only heard good things.
     
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  3. Slowman

    Slowman One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think the Shift would be better for your suggested use. It has the added safety of lateral release at the toe and tours nearly as well as a Kingpin for only slight additional weight. I have used both and lacked a bit of confidence in the heel based lateral release of the Kingpin. What I found with my set up was that at first the Kingpin heel moves laterally quite well but then it increases in resistance until the pins come away from the tech toes. In contrast the lateral movement of my Shift toe pieces seems quite smooth until the boot comes away. I did have the stiffer DIN 13 version of the Kingpin and I have wondered whether the DIN 10 version might be better in this regard.

    Shift brakes are oversized. If you are getting a 105mm waisted ski and decide to buy Shifts get the 100mm brakes.

    The Tecton would be another option. I have not tried these but suspect you would want to doing more backcountry to make these a better compromise than the Shift.
     
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  4. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wrong question.

    The question is Tecton vs Shift.

    Both have overtaken the Kingpin thanks to their lateral toe release.
     
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  5. Team Weasel

    Team Weasel One of Us

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    You should get Shifts, even if they cost more. Kingpin has been beset by toe pin failures, and is outdated due to no toe elasticity. They were a marketing success but a failure in terms of a durable AT binding.

    This is the question you should ask. I lean more to Shift, but I haven't had enough time on Tectons to say definitively. Read this article if you want more info:

    https://www.newschoolers.com/news/r...bindings-Fritschi-Tecton-Salomon-Atomic-Shift
     
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  6. hpsauce

    hpsauce A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    For that sort of use case.....I'd also consider good-ol Marker Tours. I know they are not the coolest these days, but honestly, at the price and cause you are not doing long tours....why not?! I have used mine for a few years now in a similar way to you describe....with some day long tours thrown in.....and they have been absolutely fine. Zero regrets.
     
  7. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Buy snowshoes given your intended OOB useage is likely to be less than you estimate. Or as hpsauce suggests Marker frame bindings.
     
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  8. Spence

    Spence One of Us

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    “ Volvo Mantra 102”. Ford really diversifying since they took over.

    Sorry, couldn’t help myself :)
     
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  9. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Marker FT10s or Tectons given @Annabuzzy criteria.
     
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  10. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hey @Annabuzzy if the planets align you can borrow my rigs for a whirl. PM me when you’re next heading to the white room.
     
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  11. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks - will do!!
     
  12. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us

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    Tecton all day everyday
     
  13. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Shift alllll day.

    P.s. I jumped on the Nordica enforcer 104 last weekend at the Hotham SIA tests.
    Wow, that was a seriously amazing ski. Buy it.
     
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  14. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Swifts +1 loves hers! So much sexier than @Untele-whippet and his tectons, both the wife and the binding ;)

    The below popped up on my YouTube feed which I found really interesting. Especially given the list of forumites damaged skiing tech bindings.

     
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  15. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Beware the toe!
     
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  16. Jacko4650

    Jacko4650 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Purchased the Shift system as a move from the resort: salomom QST 120 boots with Tech insert toes, Salomon QST106 skis and Salomon Shift binding. Intention: 85% resort, 15% back resort. Ie: no multi-day backcountry touring days.
    So far: very slick change from uphill walk to alpine downhill mode with 100% confidence in the Alpine setting. My issue is practicing the skins on/off routine. Ski buddy is very very envious of the shift mechanism.
    See yoorrlll out there.
     
  17. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Friends don't let Friends snow shoe.
     
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  18. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    One binding to rule them all is tech/Dynafit. Annabuzzy isn't willing to go all in so may as well boot pack and forget any pretensions to going OOBs
     
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  19. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    You're obviously no friend of buzzy's
     
  20. piolet

    piolet Better make it three Ski Pass: Gold

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    I lean a little this way as when you're not using a dedicated touring ski you've got something heavy and probably comprised from other ideals too making for a less fun time than you'd have otherwise perhaps leading to them not really being used as you'd hope.
    Makes travel tricky however.
     
  21. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is kind of how I feel about frame bindings ruining what would be a predominantly alpine setup:



    Marker Tours are kinda OK but the rest can go in the bin.
     
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  22. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    IMO Marker Tours are a fantastic mainly resort sometimes sidecountry workhorse.
    Good for everyday abuse.
     
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  23. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Food for thought here. Except the snowshoes ;). Oh and except the pure tech AT bindings - I’m not seeing why you’d prioritise touring efficiency at the expense of downhill performance for a predominantly downhill focused rig :). But I do appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

    I think I now need to choose between a Marker Tour and Shift. Mmmm...
     
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  24. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Using the ~1000g Marker Griffon as a benchmark for a stock standard alpine binding, Tour 12s will run you ~1100g per foot, Shifts ~900g, Tectons ~700g

    Barons are way up there at ~1300g with Dukes and Guardians more again.
     
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  25. hpsauce

    hpsauce A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I've run Marker Tour 10s for a few years for everything....paddling about with kids, groomer laps, day long tours, quick side country skins. And they have served that mixed purpose just fine. I have them paired with Kabookies from @CarveMan
    Positives:
    1. weight: The 10s are less than the 12s.....so probably around 900gms per binding. And combined with Kabookies (which are lighter....but not exactly dedicated touring skis) the set up feels so light compared to a typical alpine set up. (I'm not big.....68kgs and 176cm or so)
    2. Reliability: I've given them good work out in every type of condition. But not a multi-day thrashing.
    3. General usability: You can use them just like an alpine binding most of the time. They seem to release just like an alpine binding. If you're good enough you can take your skins off and lock your heel back in without even taking your skis off ;). They dont clog up too bad in deep snow. They tour well with multiple riser heights.
    4. Probably Suit an lighter all mountain ski well. Feel good with my type of skis. But I reckon if you stuck them on a carvers or GS type all mountain skis.....they would be v disappointing.
    5. Boot compatibility: Issue especially in Oz with lesser access to full boot ranges. I didn't have much choice but to to non-tech....cause I couldnt access tech boots that fit me at the time. The perfect boots were non-tech......so that rules out tech unfortunately. Maybe next time.....
    Negatives:
    1. Feel when Alpine skiing: No doubt about it, when laying it over on piste, its just not the same direct feel of alpine bindings. They require a more "input".....I guess due to the flex etc of the binding. Though I find my brain adapts to that very quick (just like driving a different car with more or less steering input required)
    2. Durability? I've had no probs.....but I have read that people do bust the front hinge in certain circumstances.....like an uncontrolled front fall in touring mode (or a really hard gumby kick turn)....where the toe of the binding hinges right over and hits the ski hard. I can certainly see how that is entirely possible to break it. But I think it would require a good amount of force. Cause I've done that sort of thing with mine and no probs so far.
    3. Squeaky: They can be a bit squeaky when touring.
    4. Touring at high angle/steep: There is inherent flex in the system which isnt noticeable usually. But I have wished the frame binding had more "twisting" stiffness when I have been climbing steeps. Like when you are really feeling for the precise edge and then base/skin traversing a steep slope. I guess the 12s would improve on this..????
    FYI.....I haven't experienced tech bindings of any sort
     
  26. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think @Annabuzzy is being realistic and picking a binding type that suits his intended use which means he will get the most out of the binding.

    Why pick an ultra light binding and compromise downhill performance? I see a few on the hill holding back because they don’t trust the binding. Like my above video said I wouldn’t trust a tech toe that didn’t have full pre release front and back. Watching @Untele-whippet enjoy his turns last weekend was awesome and showed it’s better to sacrifice a few 100g and still be skiing than bugger up a leg trying to ski something hard that can’t handle it.
     
  27. Any

    Any One of Us

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    Hilarious autocorrect for your Volvo vs the Nordic’s skis :)

    I'm a huge fan of the Marker kingpins, over 300 days on them now.
    I could put some very unfiltered opinions out there about the incorrectness of things said here about them so far ... but if I was buying for your situation, I'd go the Shifts.

    As was already said previously, I agree that your skiing profile makes sense to go something like the shifts, but its also made possible because the skis you're looking at are stiff.
    The way the shifts are mounted is a really bad design for ultra flexible soft pow skis, twice now I've seen them suddenly pop off the ski in the backcountry. So just make sure the're mounted properly.
     
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  28. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Intended use. Just like Dave Dodge says.

    Resort skiing: alpine bindings
    Resort plus side country: frame bindings
    Touring: Tech bindings

    or Shift for all three and Tecton to a slightly lesser extent.

    The evolution of bindings is really cool to watch. If there wasn't a need for a better/safer mixed business binding the Shift would never have been invented. I believe we'll see more iterations of the same concept hitting the market.
     
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  29. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This ^^^^^^

    I ski up to enjoy the ski down,
     
  30. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes, me too.

    I like the climbing but no matter how much I like the climb, the down still trumps it. When skiing bc it's never at full throttle, always need to take the circumstances into account. But, even skiing within your limits, things can go wrong, so better to have the safety of a full release binding than a tech binding.
     
  31. Chillybin

    Chillybin Addicted

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    I went with the Shifts after lots of procrastinating. I previously had the dukes and I can seriously say, why the hell would anyone use frame Bindings now. My legs really thanked me for it.

    Shift positives, ski inbounds as well as anything I’ve been on

    Shift negatives, I did get the dreaded brake release while touring but there were multiple failures due to the -27 temps. Failures only started occurring around 1:30pm around 45 minutes after cold front dropped from -14 to -27. We had snowboard Bindings snap, skins literally fall off etc etc.

    The main issue is snow and ice forming but I never really had any other issues on other days. I was very cautious and made sure I cleaned all openings etc.

    Note when buying, the internal of brake dimensions are 8mm bigger than specified. I have a 110 on my 122 with no bend. I did trim the inside plastic. I sized specifically to prevent the brake hanging over ski.

    Overall I’m extremely happy. The difference between a frame Binding and my shift on uphill is night and day on first step. Inbounds on chairlifts etc you also notice the lighter weight. I used inserts also so skied both my bmt122 and mantra m5. I’d definitely get another pair if I as in the market
     
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  32. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ive pulled the pin on some Shifts FYI.

    Now some skis for them to go on...
     
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  33. Any

    Any One of Us

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    im very happy with my black diamond mohair mix glidelite skins.
    an accidental serendipitous purchase.
    they're about half the weight of normal skins, which i didn't realize was important to me until after the fact. and they glide pretty well, and climb well enough, making a good mix between climbing skins and mohair skins.
    have two pair now.
     
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  34. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    How much were they?
     
  35. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just a touch under $600 with delivery. Maybe $590 all up.
     
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  36. PMG

    PMG One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cheap.
     
  37. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Very.

    They haven’t turned up yet so let’s see... ;)
     
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  38. Townsend

    Townsend One of Us

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    I have put Shifts on this season’s Volkl 102cms Secrets and I am very happy with both the binding and the ski.
     
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  39. PiniPowPow

    PiniPowPow One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Scored a good deal on a combo, just arrived and pretty excited!

     
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  40. pegasusSki

    pegasusSki Hard Yards

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    I got F12 Tours on my Vectors and have decided to stick with them for now given they are fine, even recommended in resort use and will release and give me proper "downhill".

    I can climb up Stirling on them in one go without being too buggered. I am pleased to see they are lighter than Barons.
     
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  41. pegasusSki

    pegasusSki Hard Yards

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    Interesting, as I am now looking for Tecton or Shift in the future and was leaning for Tecton as I am more of a tourer than a downhill. Love the idea of the Shift though! and thought a tad heavy.
     
  42. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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  43. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    The shifts arrived (from Romania!!!) in less than 2 weeks with all in order. I have to confess I had my heart in my mouth wondering if I’d opted for a Romanian scam!! Anyway all good.

    Just need to mount them on new skis. The new Salomon QST 106 is now in the mix too. But I’m headed to Niseko with my wife and daughter this Jan so there’ll be no real side country touring opportunities, and I already have full powder skis there, so probably no rush.
     
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  44. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Skied my shift today just inbounds Buller in alpine mode so didn’t pin/tour at all. Boot used was a Hawx Ultra XTD 120.

    Skied very sticky spring like snow, skied pretty hard at times also and had full confidence in the binding. It really feels and skis like a standard decent high end alpine binding, as advertised but pleased to have some first hand experience confirming such.
    Did have on release but I reckon any binding would have probably released due to the flex force I put through the ski in this instance.
     
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  45. PiniPowPow

    PiniPowPow One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Skied at Thredbo on my shifts today for the first time and had a great day. Lots of groomers first up then a side country jaunt. Excellent binding! Considering the down hill performance i cant see a need to have any other setup.

     
    #45 PiniPowPow, Aug 23, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  46. Any

    Any One of Us

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    thats clipped in walk mode right?
    i hope so! imagine tree skiing with that, especially sasa. itll be ripped off in seconds.
     
  47. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Naturally it’s a bit less financially taxing for me, but until the next hotness comes along, I won’t mount a ski over 95mm with anything but a Shift or a Tecton, unless it’s a super light touring ski where I will go full pin or if it’s a heavy metal-filled charger that I have no intention of ever walking with.
     
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  48. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Marker equivalent next year?

    Still prefer Pivots on my resort skis for Japan/Canada.
    But agree, anything that may get a tinkling of tour a shift is the way to go.
     
  49. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Marker will definitely need to respond but there’s been no whispers and Salomon took 6 years to develop the Shift.
     
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  50. Chowder11

    Chowder11 Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Have heard different