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Opinion Mega Pass killing skiing

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by DPS Driver, Jun 11, 2019 at 9:43 AM.

  1. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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  2. Zimbooo

    Zimbooo One of Us

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    Article said day ticket at Vail went up to as much as $209 bucks a day at Vail. Crazy.
    Looks like Vail are rethinking their US pricing for day tickets?
    Now released the "Epic day pass" for 1 to 7 days usage (any time during the season) for their US customers with the price at $106 per day.
    They have to get beginners back, or they'll end up with nothing eventually.
    Edit: I like what NZSki have done with their beginner pass program that includes lessons and rental gear. The beginner pass can be upgraded to a season pass should the beginner get the bug. Smart.
     
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  3. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Wait for it. The Australian day pass will climb over $200 next season.
     
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  4. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    I'll happliy take $800 instead of the old $1700 season passes..
     
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  5. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    In.a.heartbeat! Especially as mine is for summer and winter!
     
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  6. Undies

    Undies Premature Pool Room Person Ski Pass: Gold

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    But for those families who are looking at a weekend here and there, or a week showing the kids what skiing is all about, the new pricing regime is shithouse.

    The only winners are season pass holders (of which there are many more now, granted).
     
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  7. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’d happily take the old level of patronage and pay higher. Which was closer to $1200 or so, never paid $1700.

    My enjoyment of Aussie skiing is inversely proportional to the time spent queuing...for everything.
     
  8. PG2736

    PG2736 Hard Yards

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    Given we ski both Aus & North American season I love the EPIC pass. Understand the challenges around day passes, ultimately it will get worked out and they will meet the market. Multi day (ie 2+) are still broadly in line with what they have been for the last few yrs at Hotham.
     
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  9. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ummm... if memory serves me correctly, wasn't the skiing industry heading into oblivion with falling numbers, rising prices, increasing bankruptcies and the threat of GW. Then Vail starting gobbling up resorts, season passes got cheaper and resort carparks are now full.

    The ski industry was heading into a brick wall. It was saved, but there is little love for the saviors.
     
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  10. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    When I drove out on Sunday, the carparks were like any weekend in August, amazing.

    Im the same, the season pass for heavy users would be good value at double the price. Im thinking the strategy is to get people coming for a week, or few weekends, to buy the season pass, and come for a few extra days? I didnt think numbers were so bad they needed more, but then all business is a Ponzi scheme, so I guess you cant just run one sustainably hey.
     
  11. piolet

    piolet We ain't found shit! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Fun stuff is popular with a limited viable resource
    Nice gatekeeping
     
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  12. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Problem with cheap passes, is it makes everything else seem so expensive, I mean a season pass costs less than two nights at the Alpine Hotel.
     
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  13. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Half the price of a gym membership
     
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  14. Paperboy

    Paperboy Hard Yards

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    I preferred it when they had a limit on season pass numbers, now its sell as much as they can. Good business for them, more passes means more money being spent on accommodation/lessons/ski hire/ food etc. All we need know is for the resorts to put in parking meters.
     
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  15. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The price creep increases as the benefits decline. So many passes all at different price points. Ski the world on a pass is a nice sentiment but it is on the ground experiences that grow and sustain a customer base.

    These passes are not "about the skier".
     
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  16. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    Yeah $1200 in 2011

    $1500 now or more
     
  17. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    There are still heaps of beginners options and discounts out of peak season

    The beginner to intermediate skier is the area neglected now.

    Those skiing 4 to 7ish days..
     
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  18. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I read the Vail business model as locking in your existing customer base to your product, (because they're the cheapest ones to sell to)...
    Most of us that are now under the EPIC pass that do a Northern hemisphere trip are now looking at whether to pick one of the supported resorts. (Based on the chairlift chat test, I don't think too many Northern Hemisphere skiers hed down south for a holiday). I'm a Hero psss holder and I have to admit I'm now looking at one of the resorts on an EPIC pass where before it wasn't really a consideration.

    We will inevitably book the big trip early (as it's so far to go) and as we are locked in, even if the conditions are crap we'll still go. So Vail resorts ensure a level of visitation is maintained, accommodation is maintained and money is injected in to the resort, regardless of the snow conditions.

    If you're a local and that's your mountain, the plus side is there is probably more jobs at the resort. The negatives.... more people means costs go up, , availability is reduced and the killer.... it's busier. Why do you think Whistler locals refers to Aussies as JAFAs? Not a lot of love for the blow in foreigners..
    You see the same sentiment in a lot of seasonal passtimes. Go hit any town on the Surf coast and you'll get a similar vibe of local vs non local.

    The reality for corporate anywhere is KPI's are all short term and the stock price is king. I can't foresee Vail doing that much to attract new skiers but based on last weekends traffic they could rightly argue, do they really need to?
     
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  19. piolet

    piolet We ain't found shit! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah corporations love a subscription based revenue - not too far from it
     
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  20. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sure is.

    My wife and I are life long skiers. Yet are left wondering how the hell we can get to the snow these days from a cost perspective. we have two little kids and reality for us for the next few years is an extra long weekend or maybe a week is our time limit.

    It is hard to make it stack up.
     
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  21. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    In a couple of years we will do a USA trip instead of Europe simply due to the Epic Pass.

    We are now Falls skiers and will do Hotham as well somewhere.

    Instead of spending $3000 plus on euro skiing, we will do a USA trip where the lift passes are "free". Won't be every year but every 2nd or 3rd.
     
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  22. PG2736

    PG2736 Hard Yards

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    It is cheaper to holiday in Canada/North America over the xmas break than it is to travel around Australia these days! At the end of the day you will never please "the locals". If there were no visitors they would be complaining that there was no money, jobs etc. Now that there are visitors who demand a certain level of service and offer you will find them complaining about that as well. What the big corporations are bringing is investment and an offer that resonates with a lot of people. There a lots of families that we know who have never really been skiers who have gone to Whistler, Vail, Aspen etc absolutely loved it because of the infrastructure, food, quality of hotels, option of other things to do etc that are now skiing in Australia as well and return visitors at Xmas time.
     
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  23. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski resort gentrification was happening long before the mega-pass era. In my 6 years in Park City from 2002 to 2008 we went from easily finding staff accomm in prime position on a 6 month lease to having to either live in ‘taco towers’ or miles out of town.

    Resort ‘locals’ - and I use that term loosely - can be masters of cognitive dissonance when it comes to using the infrastructure that only tourist dollars can provide yet complaining about said tourists.
     
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  24. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    ie. Entitled ****s
     
  25. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    False economy. Flights would be similar (if only marginally more for Europe). The AUD is weaker against the USD than it is against the EUR.
    The real killer is accom - e.g. a quick search of Park City's website vs Saalbach-Hinterglemm for 1st week of Feb and you're talking USD230/night vs EUR420 for the week (cheapest v cheapest, whole room):
    https://book.parkcitymountain.com/v2/lodging-offers/promo-code?package=50000676#
    https://www.saalbach.com/saalbach-booking/Query

    Do the math - At 278EURpp for a 6 day pass you're still ahead. And still will be after how many weeks of holiday?
     
  26. was June daily watching

    was June daily watching One of Us

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    Double the price?
    I thought the Freedom passes and the others that were issued back then were a price cut because the resorts were losing people to the Northern Hemisphere, NZ etc.
    That must have been something they could afford to lose, unlike accommodation costs.
    It was about survival, and it seems to have worked.
    It's hard to see them returning to the old pricing strategy.
     
  27. was June daily watching

    was June daily watching One of Us

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    Join a lodge?
     
  28. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Already have. Small children and club lodges are shit for everyone in winter.
     
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  29. piolet

    piolet We ain't found shit! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Early years of skiing sucks for the parents. (In some senses, very rewarding in others)
    Well, if you want to not spend a fortune and or ski around with them. Loads of compromise. I'm just trying to get them on a bit and plant the seed whilst have some fun myself.
     
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  30. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    really?
    we get kids of all ages. our managers have a 2YO.
    a sick kid screaming all night can be a problem (has never happened when I was there) but otherwise it is all pretty cruisey.
     
  31. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah though you don't have to stay or ski in PC.
    You can get crazy cheap accomodation at tahoe within cooee of the lifts.
     
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  32. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Depends on the lodge. How shit the children are and how many kids there are.
    The lodge we go to in Japan has always had a high proportion of kids in it. Which as a parent of a only child, is an attaction.
     
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  33. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don't forget to factor in tips, either.
     
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  34. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’ve no doubt people do it.

    Personally I don’t want a holiday where I might be impacting on someone else’s time. A kid screaming at 2am is annoying enough for me let alone someone else’s.

    Your lodge is also well set up with en suites. Makes cleaning the kids MUCH easier. When it’s shared bathrooms it’s a real PITA.

    Ultimately though it is the cost of the lift ticket that we cringe at as opposed to the accom costs.
     
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  35. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    our lodge is pretty strong on the idea that members are responsible for their guests' and kids' behaviour. usually not a problem. we have a big games room where the kids normally hang out together, which helps. tv, pool, table tennis, foozball. not so much for tiny ones but great as they get a little older, right through to teens. we also have a monitor in the lounge where parents can keep an eye on the games room
     
  36. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep, recall that room you’re talking about.

    We’re not quite at that stage yet. LOL
     
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  37. skiflat

    skiflat Old n' Crusty

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    2 bed apartments same cost for us on the snow in Euro or USA

    Can get a whole house for $500 a night with a short drive to resorts in USA

    As for tipping.... :love::love:
     
  38. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    The original article is really nothing to do with passes, more a thinly veiled jab at how the big companies treat local communities and staff.

    IMO the mega passes are no different to what sporting teams have been doing for decades, season tickets. Ticket holders have always been offered benefits and the benefit to the club (in this case resort) is simple, cash up front. No reduced sales due to poor season and they can invest the cash and make short term money. They also make us ski one resort, this has of course led to the benefit that people now ski at one chain of resorts.
     
    #38 zac150, Jun 11, 2019 at 7:50 PM
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019 at 6:32 AM
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  39. kiter

    kiter One of Us

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    I think if you ask businesses big and small in the snowy mountains Nsw mega passes have been great . I have seen jindy boom and that’s great . There is an issue with long term accom for the permanent population that needs to be addressed along with access . I have been a long term advocate for mass transit from jindy to Perisher and Thredbo and I believe that all levels of government have a role to play here . Shit tons of cars in the National park is bad and I think a snow park somewhere around jindy outside the national park on a south facing slope with snowmaking for snow play and park riding is definitely worth a look at . Surely .
     
  40. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us

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    I like this. Definitely worth a good long discussion and maybe more.
     
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  41. ralf_plough

    ralf_plough One of Us

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    Timeline is a bit off. Season passes were cheaper before vail started gobbling, in Aus at least. Cheap season passes are attracting all sorts of lowlifes, and to be honest, as a family, I cringe at the thought of skiing in Aus these days. The OS options are just too much better to consider stuffing around in our resorts IMO.
     
  42. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    *on a weekend
     
  43. kiter

    kiter One of Us

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    Cheers . Thanks kelpieboy . I like this thread and I’m hoping that long term some great ideas and solutions come from this . The region is one of Nsw premier regions that with constant tweaking will be our premier region , there is great stuff going on and government planning and involvement is really encouraging . This is a good place for further discussion and ideas . Frankly I get that some people are horrified at how things are panning out but it is a reality that needs management and ideas and solutions that I feel that with good faith are achievable
     
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  44. ralf_plough

    ralf_plough One of Us

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    Definitely worse on weekends, but to certain extent during the week too.

    My point is, Vail are not the saviour, they are just profiteers, and there are side effects good and bad.
     
  45. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm pessimistic AF anything will occur.
    At least from a government point of view.
    If we're talking of jindy. It's a cluster**** of self interest and old habits Vs city investment in holiday homes.
    It's pretty pathetic TBH.
     
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  46. kiter

    kiter One of Us

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    Pleases . I’m a cup half empty guy normally but I have a soft spot for the region and I reckon keep it positive and look for solutions
     
  47. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I am the same but ..... tonight I had the bizarre experience of being verbally abused, membership card taken and threatened with trespass by the Manager of the Bowlo for having a shower. I am a member, I was there to shower, renew membership and have a beer and a chat with local mates. I have been going there for near on 40 years. The bloke was highly agitated. I scurried back to the the block and locked the door.

    Shits got weird in Jindy
     
  48. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    This.
    The transformation and dynamic are not being coped with by the town.
     
  49. Kelpieboy

    Kelpieboy One of Us

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    As a resident of the western side of the hills and long term user of both NSW and northern Vic snowfields I welcome good ideas that are thoroughly debated ,investigated and developed before instigation. Small scale mass transit from Jindy to both Thredbo and Perisher is a great idea for many reasons. An easily accessible snow park facility incorporating areas for snowplay and park skiing really needs to be done ,whether its in or out of KNP is debatable.
    I also believe the area between Perisher and CP should be incorporated into existing leases with a view to join them up. There are also areas surrounding Thredbo that should be incorporated as well to make both areas able to handle the larger numbers of people being attracted to the area.
    However before that would/could be possible the infrastructure and facilities must be planned and built so it wont happen in my time on this planet.
    Right now I would settle for a road directly from Tooma to Perisher...............possibly a new resort on the way. ;)
     
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  50. VSG

    VSG Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    If we could all ski mid week, out of school holidays... solve that one.