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Meidjo NTN

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by lennysan, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m about till mid October.
     
  2. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Love stats, do you rent more 75mm because their are more 75mm boots out there or because people genuinely like 75mm more.

    I seriously doubt it’s the latter.

    If I was back as a young uni student sure 75mm would be for me as I can get a cheap set up from gear being changed over. If I’m an alpine skier dipping my toe into tele sure 75mm offers a cheap option.

    So I don’t think you can use the fact that you hire more 75mm as an example of the fact that they are preferred. I’ve had no issues with my freedom’s love them, I had no issues with cables either. But I’d never go back to cables
     
  3. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have broken a few 75mm binders, haven't broken the NTN yet, on Rottis. 22 designs had quite a few failures, as have Meidjos, I guess when they do something new it happens. Although I firmly believe that everything breaks eventually.

    No way I will ever go back to 75mm, unless its all I can find on a day. Id rather ski that than not at all! I gave all my 75mm gear to @Telemark Phat to sell cheap (and borrow out) to impoverished ski instructors, to try and get a few more interested in the sport.

    Other than that I just ski around looking like some sort of god (a fat old god), to inspire others.
     
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  4. telenomore

    telenomore One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Sounds like you are happy with your choice, nothing better than that, as others are happy with their choice and in great numbers. 75mm still works well for many new and old resort telemarkers and backcountry skiers. As the bard said "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Long may there be such choices. Apologies for the semi thread hijack Meijdo fans.
     
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  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    DIN releases still only available for 75mm.
    I can't afford more knee injuries.
    Now looking for replacement boots - low mileage T2s or T1s. MP 27 if anyone's got some gathering dust.
     
  6. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is that fully certified DIN release?

    The toe and / or duck butt release is pretty good on the Meidjo. Tested it again today and worked fine. The duck butt release is adjustable to pretty close to DIN numbers.

    Haven’t look at the toe release to ascertain if it is adjustable, I’m guessing not. But again it works fine.
     
  7. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Used the redline springs in the Meidjo today, only wound onto 1&1/2 out of 5 but was very smooth & had no trouble crushing the spring after a couple of turns. Think I’ll be leaving them in.
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Telebry Safeouts - DIN 4 to DIN 12. 360 release.
    7TMs - TUV certified (but doesn't release forwards)

    Who's done an injury on NTNs recently that was preventable with effective release? Snow Blowey, Untelewhippet .....?
     
  9. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Are the SafeOuts certified?

    NTN is a broad category now and just like 75mm different NTN bindings have different to no release capacity.

    I skied all last Winter and all so far this Winter (except for some sick, weather & disorganisation days) on the Ms, so my comments come from a fair bit of in field experience over a reasonable period.

    Both 75mm and NTN will **** you up when you **** up. But NTN is offering more choices for some protection than 75mm right now and this will continue as more choices come into NTN.

    I would have to be reminded which NTN bindings caused issues with @Snow Blowey and @Untele-whippet .
     
  10. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    I was skiing TTS, hooked my leading ski tip at full compression and counter-rotation.
    @Snow Blowey also hooked a tip, on Rotte Freerides.
    Once the forces start you going over the handlebars at speed and your heel lifts, this increases toe retention through compression of the cartridges and lateral release is impaired, so as the ski tip goes east and the tibia/fibula go west in counter-rotation the ankle ligaments or fibula go kaput.
     
  11. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is this a good place to mention the 'newish' Bishop BMF Tele bindings?

    Not sure if anyone has seen one? Used one?

    To me it's pretty attractive as it let's me choose when I change from my beloved SynerGs to NTN.

    Being full step in with brakes is a plus, and ability to mount on extra skis via a plate. Plus the R model has free pivot fn.

    Yes, doesn't use the duck butt I know, nothing's perfect. Seriously considering this for transitioning slowly into NTN. Any thoughts?
     
  12. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    OK so the TTS is a super light weight thing that does not promise any real release as far as I’m aware. Correct me if I’m wrong.

    And the Rottefella NTN set the design parameters for NTN and some people love them, but imo they are boat anchors. Can’t say i was that impressed by their release in my very limited trial.
     
  13. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’d love to try one.
     
    #313 skifree, Aug 25, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  14. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hi Skifree. Bishop seem to have short sharp runs of a few hundred or so - not a lot to go round Us never mind Oz. last year they offered a pre-order price in the US Autumn. Wondering if they do so this year. Might get on board - will never know unless I try.

    FWIW my Voile binders then HHeads have been good but I don't see myself buying another heavy duty 75 mm boot.

    In contrast, will keep my Garmont Excursions & relevant skis going indefinitely - I don't see an NTN boot available that covers this space. Although the M binder looks like it would work ok.
     
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  15. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    People (see the Earn Your Turns Dostie forum) have had problems pre releasing from tech toes with TTS and some now ski with the toes locked out!!
    I had happily released on occasions before my accident.
    Theoretically as soon as there is a sufficient lateral force applied to to tech toe it will release.
    However as soon as the heel lifts and the cartridges engage the static physics is fornicated.
    The problem being sufficient force, in a toe hook falling forward.
    Many people hurt bits of their legs in full DIN alpine binders.
    It’s dangerous out there!
     
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  16. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sooooo, IMHO, the 22 Designs Lynx is an exploding ankle about to happen beast.
    In their video they state, as the heel rises the toe retention increases......
     
  17. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And then you have the opposite arguement, my season was saved by NTN, as I can parallel far better on ntn than I can on my 75mm cables. My ability to parallel meant I still got to ski with the family even with torn ligament in the ankle.

    @Untele-whippet interesting you say that as I’ve been looking at the Lynx as a possible touring option. But then decided to stick with the bindings I got from you to go on a touring rig. I figure I’m happy enough to cart the extra kg’s side country to get the performance.
     
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  18. art

    art One of Us

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    If I don't lock the tts toes I end up releasing when I shouldn't. It's a pain because I really don't like having them locked.
    I'm using stiffer springs now so maybe that will be improved.
     
  19. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    I pre-released from Dynafit toes but not ATK toes.
     
  20. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah,my looking at webstuff only suggests the Lynx is the same weight as the Meidjo but without all the same features, 3 years later. But i look foreword to being surprised maybe in a couple of weeks when I expect to be able to fondle a Lynx and possibly have a test drive.:)
     
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  21. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Bruce is drooling.
     
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  22. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ya noticed.

    I dunno why, 3 years late on the opposition, possibly not all the same features and every 1st born 22 Designs ( actually pretty much every tele binding makers, it took till version 2.0 to get the Meidjo close to right ) has a weak point.

    Maybe folks don’t want to deal in Euros or Euro language? Both of which i can understand as turn offs. The € to A$ is savage & ain’t gunna change so. Love to be corrected on this.
     
  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    There's no silver bullet with release but there's certainly better and worse options.
    Recently I was doing a downwards traverse at medium speed and the uphill ski hit a rise and submarined. The lower ski stayed on top. My body swung around and pitched forward. The Safe-Out on the upper ski released. That saved me some grief.
    The setting was DIN 6. When lugging a pack I add a point.
     
  24. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Getting the bindings light is only half the problem,
     
  25. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    At least one of every 75mm binding I've owned has had a catastrophic failure. I'm yet to experience that with NTN. Meijdos are lighter than tour mode tele bindings, they ski better and they tour better. The ATK Newmark is lighter than all but race AT bindings.

    Physics is against 75mm, they have more torsional flex and are less responsive. You also have to grovel every time you put them on.

    The reason why 75mm is holding Telemark back is that as long as 75mm is out there and bit makers are making boots for two standards the return on R&D isn't there in such a small market. The has been no innovation in Telemark boots for in a decade.
     
  26. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Skied for first time on 22 outlaw X yesterday, they ski just like the Ms only more burley. Step in is a since, , and they seem to release appropriately
     
  27. rols

    rols Addicted

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    I don't believe any of the NTN bindings actually release laterally at the toe. The tech toe of the Meidjo or TTS will release when torque is applied around the toe but not to a pure lateral force and there lies the problem, torque= force x distance, so if the force happens to be close to or at the toe (meaning the distance is small or zero) then the torque the tech toe 'sees' tends to zero also and it cannot release. Then the next weakest element is likely to break - binding breakage, ligaments, tib/fib.
     
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  28. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm lucky in that I have incredible bone density ( my skull is solid bone right through!) so the ski will break before I do.

    I find the release on Freerides easier than any 75mm I have pulled out of, but tend to agree about the tech binders. In fact the toe retention box on the Freerides is much smaller than on the 75mm, as is the toe on the boot, so the spring releases slightly easier.
     
  29. rols

    rols Addicted

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    Yeah the DNA lottery is always going to play a part but even those who've hit the genetic jackpot like kilian jornet aren't immune to physics and probability.
     
  30. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I thought i was bullet proof until 7 weeks ago. First decent injury ever. Now i am having second thoughts about repeating past behaviours.
     
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  31. zac150

    zac150 One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I reckon the toe box on the free rides would break well before any of the old 75mm bindings.
     
  32. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    What happened to you?
     
  33. telenomore

    telenomore One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    New thread to broaden the general discussion https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/telemark-technique-and-history.82407/
     
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  34. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Broke my ankle on NTN. Left leading ski hit refrozen track under fresh snow. Spun ski under my right ski. Right ski kept going. 180 degree rotation of left leg. No release. Then torn deltoid and weber B fracture as i lost it over the top.
     
  35. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    It would be more helpful to say you broke your ankle while using NTN Freeride (or Feedom if it was that), NTN just like 75mm is now a broad church.
     
  36. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    But is it not cool that tech toe telemark bindings now provide the level of release at AT skiers have been enjoying for 30ish years?

    Is the issue you describe an issue or problem, in AT?
     
  37. rols

    rols Addicted

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    Having some release function is certainly an improvement over the non existant release of many 75mm bindings but the release functionality provided by a tech toe is compromised, it causes the same problems when used in AT bindings - it leaves significant possibility of damaging torque being applied to the lower leg without release.
     
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  38. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Given the plethora of development and variations of the original tech system in recent years has anyone tackled this?

    Or is it A) too hard
    B) not seen as a priority?
    C) some other option?
     
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  39. rols

    rols Addicted

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    Not sure, likely A, B&C. Though there are already 3 tech bindings that release laterally at the toe, Trab TR2, fritschi vipec & tecton (though lateral toe release alone doesn't appear to be the end game in protecting knees) Dynafit has a lot of product inertia with the original tech toe so they would likely be reluctant to change.
    The tele bindings that use the tech toe, aren't clean slate designs, they rely on existing mechanisms and have to work with fixed boot standards so it's probably not surprising they aren't optimised around release functionality. It seems pretty evolutionary ski hardware design, change is slow.
     
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  40. chokenchickin

    chokenchickin One of Us

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    Agree that this is a problem. I changed to tech toe tele boots mainly for the weight savings. I used to enjoy the flip flop feeling of my old 75 mm set up, with less tip dive in deep powder. Been on the Meidjo's for a few years now, took a bit of adapting, and have found that I now seem to weight my rear foot a lot earlier in the turn. No need to think big toe/little toe any more, just seems easier to control the rear foot. Some of my most fun times on the Meidjo have been in telenomore's Tokachi Mountains matching the radius of my turns to the birch tree spacings. Being able to ride the rear foot more easily really helps. Having said all that, my next binding will no way be the Meidjo as I don't feel like chipping ice and snow out of the gaps all day. Would happily go back to my old targas that never iced up on me, but then I would not have a binging that could release in avi terrain.
     
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  41. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Quite a thread going here. Missed the start. Yes many are already on NTN.

    Fwiw: I still have some lighter skis with Voile Release and they still release after 20 years. Not perfect - the odd barrel breaks etc... But they do release.

    My main ski for lifts has hammerheads. I still rely on shear luck. Like many on this thread? Not great!
     
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  42. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Used to love my Voile 3pin hardwires on release plates.
    Ugly as but very functional.
    Loved my TeleBullDog Spike Tours too and.....
     
  43. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Voile stopped making the CRB and the release plate but for years you could find old stock in US online retailers .
     
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  44. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Could be a handy safety net for us old 'pinheads'?

    ...maybe that's what NTN needs - it's own Voile release system?
     
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  45. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    My old 3 pins had release.

    Either you ripped the holes out of the boot.

    Or the binding came off the ski.

    So much power!
     
  46. chokenchickin

    chokenchickin One of Us

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    Years ago on a good powder day I had the rear ski go under a snow covered branch. Ended up ripping out the rear screws on the Voile release system. Not long after that the barrel snapped (as snowgum has experienced). Ended up ditching that system, and just went no release.
     
  47. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    That is simply a function of getting old...
     
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  48. rols

    rols Addicted

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    I had something similar happen in some wasatch fluff, was on some 7tm's which released, which I'm pretty sure prevented something breaking. The very first 7tm's had an underfoot strap that was (according to 7tm) designed to break in a forward flexing crash and I can confirm it did work, resulting in a long walk back to the remarkables carpark. They then used a stronger fiber to reinforce the strap (looks like dyneema to the semi trained eye) as I think it broke too often.
     
  49. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ouch. Which bindings didn't release?
    Back to AT when able?
     
  50. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think the pin on those was sposed to break as well, in a catastrophic release.

    heheh
    My first cable binding was the Riva Z. With T3 boots the setup was capable of a 180 bend in almost any direction.

    Now bones and ligaments are forced to do the flexing.