1. SPECIAL NOTE TO NEW WEATHERZONE FOLK

    If you recently registered and have not received a confirmation email - please check your 'Spam or Junk' folders. Especially if your email is Hotmail. More help with confirmation issues

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Metal edge on groomed trail

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by jamie.croft, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. jamie.croft

    jamie.croft First Runs

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Hi folks,
    Are you allowed metal edged skis on groomed cross country trails in Australia? Specifically Hotham/falls/dinner plains trails.

    Also, what would the maximum width ski be that I could use on groomed trails? Looking to get a do-all backcountry ski that i could also use on groomed trails.

    Cheers
     
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    Yes.
    About 65mm width is the comfortable max to use the tracks. If that's not a concern any width is OK but the wider you go the worse they track.
     
  3. jamie.croft

    jamie.croft First Runs

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ah great. Looking at some skis that are 68mm. With Voile 3pin bindings. Reckon I’d squeeze in? Or would i end up chewing up the tracks and making it uncomfortable for me and others?
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    Those tracks get rapidly chewed up anyway so I wouldn't sweat it. Go for the width to suit all your touring needs. If you plan to go off-trail, wider is of course better, up to a point. Our snow is usually relatively wet and heavy and around 70mm underfoot is a good all-round width in my book.
     
    Snowy Joey, Chaeron and jamie.croft like this.
  5. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,369
    Location:
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    A patterned base ski with a metal edge wide enough to take tech. bindings and narrow enough to track well is the go.

    When I’m using the XC trails I steer clear of the groomed grooves as my skis are too wide for them, and there’s never any issue when encountering XC skiers.
     
  6. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    29,765
    Likes Received:
    12,745
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    IME the worst damage to classic tracks is caused by skaters
     
  7. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    6,006
    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
    This.
    My favorite rig for on and off trail is pattern based metal edged 90mm with tech toes and Tele (TTS) heal. Go anywhere do anything lightly, not in the tracks bc too wide.
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  8. jamie.croft

    jamie.croft First Runs

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Interesting. I’ve not come across the TTS concept before. For flattish/rolling terrain style touring where I’m not looking to climb mountains, would you still choose TTS over traditional leather boots and 3-pin bindings?
     
  9. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    6,006
    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
    I've never done leather/3-pin.
    All my regular tele rigs are NTN, but for just heading off in to wilderness (with dog), the Tele Tech system is ideal. Super simple, light but robust. I actually just bought the heal pieces and used some old Dynafit tech toes.
     
  10. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,137
    Likes Received:
    6,006
    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
  11. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Fischer Nordic Cruiser skis have a PB and full metal edges and should fit into the tracks as well as go off track /BC quite well. I am buying a pair for this season matched with NNN BC bindings. Madshus Epochs will not fit into the track. I have done some off piste BC XC skiing in classic Fischer PB skinny skis in Spring conditions on the B.H.P. .I was fine in those.
     
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    NNN-BC is ideal for that.
    The Subaru of XC bindings someone here called it.
     
  13. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne
    :):thumbs::cool::skier:
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  14. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I have XC skied the groomed Dinner Plain to Mt. Hotham track with metal edges and many of the groomed XC tracks at Falls with Metal edges. It is the skaters that muck up the corduroy .
     
  15. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Beaconsfield,Victoria
    The corduroy is there for the skaters, Mr T. It's the next level. You should try it sometime. Felix at LM could show how it's done.
     
  16. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Maybe one day ,I will give XC skating a go but BC XC day touring is my thing.
     
  17. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    19,881
    Likes Received:
    9,099
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    It is worth sampling then adding to your skill list back in the BC.
     
    seak and Mister Tee on XC Skis like this.
  18. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    464
    Location:
    Beaconsfield,Victoria
    I understand where you're coming from and observe the recent addition to the quiver. You will be aware, though, that there are some who will aver that groomed trails have very little to do with bc, except, perhaps, as a means of getting out there. On Stirling, for example.
     
    Rick Ross Da Boss likes this.
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    Yep. Handy thing to be able to do.
    Like double pole, single kick.
     
  20. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I like Lake Mtn. and similar places that have grooming but the BHP is my kind of place for XC skiing.
     
  21. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Addicted

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    110
    I ski on 83/ 62's (at the waist) Madshus Eon's with Voile's 3 pins metal edges. They only fit in when it's a bit later in the day and I'll only use them in some circumstances and when it's wide enough to fit, so not to bugger up someone else's fun. The metal edges are no concern on the corduroy, boot outs make me supergrumpy though and its worth filling holes if you stack and especially if still early in the day. The Eon and the BC 90 which is similar have worked for me across all conditions. They do nothing well but I've found them good for me at where I was/and still are. I find now, that I'd rather a ligher ski for LM etc, but did 22Km on the Eon's last year around Falls (though wish I hadn't!).
     
    Mister Tee on XC Skis likes this.
  22. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    3,414
    Likes Received:
    4,369
    Location:
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    Epochs with tech bindings and a light tech. boot.....33km+.... and smiling.
     
    Ziggy likes this.
  23. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    I decided on a light rig last season and chose Eons. They're 62mm underfoot and double cambered. Worked well on the groomers. Essentially they're an old style track ski with sidecut. Kick and glide is their forte.
    They didn't have enough float though for most off track conditions and Windy Corner kindly offered a swap for a consideration. They were using Epochs for their school groups and the kids were more likely to fall with them on the groomers than with the Eons. Single camber & more sidecut produces more wandering on the corduroy which takes technique to counter.
    So Epochs are now my light tourers. The Glittertind boots though don't give enough edge control over this 68mm ski, and there's nothing else around apart from the poorly designed Alpina 1550. So I've ordered some Crispi Svartisen from o/s, hoping they make better levers.
    https://crispi.it/en/350/svartisen-gtx-bc
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  24. axellotta

    axellotta Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    43
    If the Crispis don’t work out, I can highly recommend the Alpina Alaska NNN-BC.

    Also an overseas import though I’m afraid.
     
  25. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Give the Fischer NNN BC XC ski boots a go. I swear by mine and I have rented and tried other boots before I bought the Fischers.
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    Thanks.
    Everest in Bright has/had them. They look good but I wanted a plakky cuff and instep strap.
     
  27. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    280
    Location:
    Yackandandah NE Victoria
    Tele tech looks impressive just need to buy new boots .
    Have been waiting for someone to make a lighter touring boot like a stripped down T4 with tech inserts ?
    Unfortunately the market keeps going for the beefier end .
    A bit like new mtbikes going for too much bike= an arms race.
     
  28. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Addicted

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    110
    It's all feeling a bit hypothetical, without snow. Sighhs....
     
  29. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Addicted

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    110
    As a kindred Eon user, I agree with you on that. I struggle in any powder on mine (paired with Excursions), but as a female, I find the Eon is ok for the backcountry skiing I do, esp Mainrange in spring when it can get very icy and I find weight really bothers me.

    Those boots look really nice Ziggy, be great to hear how you go. I don't have a NNBC set up (Hated the Fischers), biggest problem for me is the sheer lack of female specific boots/liners. Having got a newish second hand pair am very excited as initial impressions nearly made me cry with relief!
     
  30. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    There's enough out there - around Falls anyway - to build fitness and skills.
     
    Peagreenboat likes this.
  31. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The Mother load is coming. Both Weather zone and Ms. Bunn are on board for this snowfall as of Next Thursday until Sunday week.
    https://crispi.it/en/350/svartisen-gtx-bc

    These boots look fully sick!
     
    Peagreenboat likes this.
  32. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Messages:
    8,854
    Likes Received:
    3,466
    Location:
    Melbourne base camp
    Cool.
    The Eons are good for edge holding on hardpark, if you work them, as they're double camber.
    The Svartissen fit impressions: they're like a Crispi plastic boot having a relatively generous heel pocket. They run a size or one and a half larger than the norm IMO. I dealt with the Fey Bros of Telemarkdown to avoid a problem with that.
    Re tricky fits, I see a Rossignol boot that is thermo-fit: https://www.wildernesssports.com.au/products/rossignol-bc-x10-ski-boot
     
    #31 Ziggy, Jul 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  33. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    4,936
    Likes Received:
    4,412
    Location:
    Melbourne