Move to pull police from Victoria's snowfields

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by FatBoyDave, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    NSW is a nanny state out of control sadly the rest of Australia's catching up to them. We all know this drug roadside testing is about punishing drug use, not safety, wherever it's done because Puritan nannies cannot stand the masses using illicit drugs they can't get taxes from them like with alcohol. Hilairious how conservatives say they don't want governments interfering in people's lives.....unless ts not people like them who are in the receiving end of the interference.
     
  2. travelislife

    travelislife Dedicated Member
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    Um, seriously? I would prefer that the car driving behind me on a mountain road isn't being piloted by some guy high as a kite with slowed reaction time, so I believe it is 100% safety. The main reason it was brought in is that when doing blood tests on people after significant accidents the % of people who had a drug in their system was pretty high. I'll try and dig the stats out.

    Though I will say that I generally agree we have gone too far with a lot of the nanny state regulations that exist, Victoria is terrible, 3km/hr speed cameras, please that is doing more damage to safety by having people constantly looking at their dash!
     
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  3. coolair

    coolair Well-Known Member
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    I dont want some stoner plowing into my Family, but until there is some measure of drug in system , for now the existing system is fine with me. Being picked up 3 days after a cone or two is a bit rough.
     
  4. marv hucker

    marv hucker Dedicated Member

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    7, actually

    But whatever.
     
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  5. crackson

    crackson Addicted Member
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    The alpine way doesn't get littered with crashed stoner cars.

    It gets littered with the cars of impatient hungover straight people.

    The stoner is the one who slows as you pass to make it safer for you. The antistoner will do 120 to stop you challenging his manhood.
     
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  6. travelislife

    travelislife Dedicated Member
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  7. travelislife

    travelislife Dedicated Member
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    Yeah I do agree with some of this, I was nearly put in to the bank up at Hotham because of some lunatic in his big Audi feeling the need to try and overtake me in near white out conditions when a car came at him in the other lane, backed off really quick and turned in towards me, at least he hung back for the rest of the trip down the mountain, hopefully learnt his lesson.
     
  8. marv hucker

    marv hucker Dedicated Member

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  9. Hully

    Hully Dedicated Member

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    Make no doubt about it, the coppers rostered at Falls Creek do heaps of RBT, radar speed enforcement and chain checks. I have spent many an hour observing them doing just that, and I don't have any problem with them undertaking these tasks. Not inappropriate or over the top.
    I really think that the savings that force command would have been looking for weren't the policing hours as much as the allowances and accommodation costs associated with having personnel based at Falls Creek (sleeping overnight) for 7 days at a time. Note, this is just my thinking not based on any inside knowledge.
     
  10. Chondro

    Chondro Dedicated Member
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    The amount of fights I've seen on the street outside "the man" there needs to be police up there, Not so much to break them up as they break up fairly quickly. But when you know theres no police going to rock up for a hour? never going to end good
     
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  11. currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty
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    ok, I've just never been rbt'd up there. chains and radar for sure, but not that often really and more likely to see radar and cameras in mt beauty IME

    my point was really that rbt etc is not why it's important to have police there
     
  12. Hully

    Hully Dedicated Member

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    That would not be a surprise to me knowing your ski habits. Most of this type of activity is focused on when the bulk of the higher risk tourist market is arriving and leaving....different times than you heading up and down.
     
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  13. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    That's why if we can't safeguard the innocent who are no longer impaired, we should abolish random tests for drugs and only have tests after major incidents
     
  14. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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  15. iagreewithhim

    iagreewithhim Well-Known Member

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    10% high, not 10% low.
     
  16. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Ive been blown by a policeman, but have never pulled one.
     
  17. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    The trouble with the new drug testing regime is that it only tests for the presence of the cannabis, speed or ecstasy in any concentration. Its all a bit uncertain and arbitrary, does not test impairment and does not test for more common drugs such as prescription mood enhancers. (valium and derivatives).

    The whole Snow Blitz is a messy regime of blanket intimidation of all with very little proven results in reducing accidents or fatalities.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/roadside-...ncertain-magistrate-says-20160202-gmjus2.html
     
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  18. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    And notably it only tests for the presence of the non active part of THC that remains long after the active part has gone.
    A positive test for THC does not prove impairment period, just assumes that if you were impaired at one time in the past you may still be but it cant tell if you are.
     
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  19. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    And testing of anything after the drivers have done the majority of the trip on the way up the mountain like they do at Buller and Hotham is nonsense.
    They may have been impaired during the trip and sober up by the time they make the mountain.
    And it has nothing to do with getting impaired drivers off the road if they are all going to be off the road and on skis a few k's down the road after driving a few hundred

    They do it for shows
    They call it flying the flag.

    In the days of analog police radio when Saturday nights entertainment was listening to them on scanner
    It was like keystone cops, comedy gold.
    And often they would tell a van or car to go to a place even if nothing was going on to "fly the flag", which meant to be seen doing something even if they are doing nothing.
     
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  20. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    Public loves it too.
    "Good to see the Police out and about doing their job"
    Doing what ?
    "Doesn't matter so long as they are out on the job"
     
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  21. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Someone want to tell Viv Richards he was impaired for all that cricket? Probably half the Windies over that period actually. Reckon they are off it now though!
     
  22. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    Maybe a case of "Ill have whatever he's having, it works for him"
     
  23. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    I have heard of many athletes over the years (not anymore obviously) who used a few 'recreational' drugs for performance enhancement, and pot was one of them. Never heard of anyone using alcohol as a performance enhancer in sport, only entertainment and politics.
     
  24. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    Possible Cocaine or Booze is behind many Famous Political speeches.

    Hitler was on the good shit that's for sure.
     
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  25. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    I think they send it off to the lab to test for the active part. Its all pretty empowering for the cops but does SFA for anyone else. Its like they are slowly using traffic laws to enforce other laws.

    Big Brother .... he is well and truly here.
     
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  26. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    LOL .... testing at places like Bredbo and Jindy dam after the majority have driven safely from Sydney. Its bullshit, designed to intimidate and justify deployments.
     
  27. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    From what I read and it was some time go
    A blood test it could but only if the active part is active at the time its taken otherwise its gone.
    And saliva or hair etc contains the non active part.
     
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  28. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    ambiguity overload

    It all depends on amount of sustained use and body mass
     
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  29. sbm

    sbm Dedicated Member
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    Bit of a controversy right now in the marathon & ultramarathon world, apparently athletes use pot to dull pain and nausea and survive inside the "pain cave" for longer, and some think it should be banned as performance enhancing.
     
  30. TOFF

    TOFF Old And Crusty
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    Only solution is to relax our nations gun laws so we can all protect ourselves if some drunk 22 year old wants to get a bit lippy or pushy in one of the alpine night spots.

    Only solution, more guns then no need for police. #votetrump
     
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  31. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Good point! A mate of mine moved to Merka 30+ years ago, moved back here, said, fk me, you guys arent allowed to do anything anymore, what happened? And moved back to the land of the free. Guns=freedom!
     
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  32. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    That's why we need to abolish the power of police to demand individuals submit to drug tests except after a major road incident and with the order of a Judge of a Court (eg County Court of Victoria or District Court of NSW)
     
  33. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    I think you would find that accidents involving just pot, would be less than accidents involving no drugs. Alcohol is the big problem still. Its always, drugs AND alcohol, or just alcohol. Wonder if there are stats on prescription drugs and accidents....

    IMO its over the top, with limited if any benefit to safety. Alcohol testing I have no problem with. But I think fatigue and general inattentiveness kill more people than anything, maybe they need to test for those.
     
  34. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    The right of the individual against searches by police has been steadily reduced in many states too. Anytime someone "gets off on a technicality" the junk media panic and Laborel pass some law to further encroach in our liberties.

    This is a nation where accused persons, even if of no means, do not have an absolute right to be provided a lawyer if they are unable to retain one. Even if they face the loss of their liberty as a potential outcome and they are claiming innocence. Where in NSW there isn't even a right to silence. If you have a lawyer present during interrogation at a police station and don't disclose something you rely on later in your defence, courts are now allowed to draw adverse inferences against you.

    This is all part of our free country and encroaching prison industrial complex and police state. Demanding drug tests from drivers and penalising them if they refuse to provide them is one of the many arms of our police state. They can't get drug users easily so let's find other ways to get them.
     
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  35. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    We are on a slippery slope. Not many free countries have the same police powers ours do.
     
  36. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Hey my wife watches shit merkin shows, Dick Wolfe style stuff, I seen it. If they dont get to shoot a few people a day, thats a bad day at work!
     
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  37. Moondog55

    Moondog55 Dedicated Member

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    What free country?
    Australia has always been a police state, it is only that at the moment it's obvious, damned obvious
     
  38. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    Such repressive laws we live under.

    :rolleyes:

    Sure, some shit happens that shouldn't but seriously, we've got it pretty good here all things considered. Yes, we need to push back when it goes too far (eg, the Sydney antisocial grog law bullshit) but a police state we aren't.
     
  39. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    Read some more
    The active part is detectable in saliva but only for a short period after its use..
    However it is only from the inhalation leaving the traces of the active part and not much at all from blood to saliva so once you wash your mouth out with anything alcohol based its gone.
    Which is why they probably don't bother testing if you show a reading for BAC because it dissolves the THC.

    It mentions that there is no evidence of it in motor vehicle injuries that did not involve other substances in particular ethanol and the lack of any sample or base that excludes other substances, so the studies that suggest it does had no baseline and assumed that any use of it will always be in addition to other substances.
    It also stated that there was no impairment found of anything that required cognitive concentration, just delays in automated functions as in the things you do without concentration.
    So if you encounter something that requires cognitive concentration there is no impairment to that ability.
    It not like alcohol in that it just puts a fog on everything, its discriminating in its effects to specific actions.
    Maybe because parts of the brain have cannabinoid receptors.
    Seems all of our brains have pot receptors built in for some odd reason.

    The studies linked at wiki on MV accidents are Australian done by someone who has a whole list of studies seeking to discover all the reasons pot is bad and are pretty thin on facts.
     
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  40. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    More an insurance state! Get too many personal injury lawyers, and everyone is afraid to move!
     
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  41. coolair

    coolair Well-Known Member
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    close the gate after the horse has bolted mentality , we probably have the tests as too many accidents have ended at the coroners court, better to be fined rather kill some one, Cops doing the governments work at being pro active after many years of reactive.
     
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  42. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    As a result of what though ?
     
  43. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    Every term of government the prison industrial complex and police state are after more powers. It's all about coercion and social control, part of an organised conservative backlash against earlier gains of social liberties. No matter how much they get, nothing is enough. I can guarantee you they will come up with more, all the time.

    Now they'll say we need this it's enough, there are proper safeguards but the only safeguards that are easily accessible are on their side not ours. Together with restrictions on the right to counsel and that many matters one can lose their liberty without ever having to be tried before a jury, one day there will be social unrest in this country. It's only a matter of time. Of course the privileged will ne calling for more coercive powers, extra money for the penal industry etc, and we will see continuing growth in the coercive powers of all arms of government.
     
  44. BilbyBill

    BilbyBill Well-Known Member

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    I am very happy for a Police presence at the ski resorts.
     
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  45. DJM

    DJM Dedicated Member
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    Maybe we should do the same with alcohol. Let's wait for all the drunks to crash then demand a test. Just because Johnny is OK after a few cones doesn't mean Mike is. I've nearly been killed on several occasions over the years in cars with people who were just stoned.

    I've walked way from serious accidents, and looking back a couple of those guys are now dead because they were using drugs when driving. That's what the police are trying to stop.

    There's also a difference in opinion depending on exposure to the problem. In my area I see the worst of people almost every day so I have a slightly different view.

    I always wonder if all the laws were relaxed wether people would start realising that maybe things were better beforehand.
     
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  46. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    When I first started driving there were no RBT's, cars didn't have airbags, some didn't have seat belts in the back. Surprising more of us didn't die really! RBT killed the progressive dinner.
     
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  47. currawong

    currawong Old And Crusty
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    problem is more of us did die

    IIRC mandatory seat belts was the biggest regulatory factor in dropping the road toll
     
  48. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    We fit about 25 drunks in a Holden station wagon once! Steering was a bit light on the climbs!
     
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  49. skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

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    More did die, that's why all those things were introduced.

    If people think Australia, and NSW in particular, is a police state maybe they should try living in somewhere like Russia, Saudi Arabia, UAE, China, DPRK or even Singapore (what other Western "democracy" has the same party in governmemt for over 50 years?) and then realise just how good it really is here. It is remarkably easy to have no interaction with the police, barring the occaisonal RBT. The last interaction, outside an RBT, I had with a member of NSW Police was two years ago and that was having dinner with the local Jindy copper along with a mutual friend. Other than that I would need to go back nearly 20 years which was to report a burgalry when the storage cage in my apartment block got broken into.
     
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  50. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    They are the ones that pull you from a burning car wreck. Then taser the shit out of you!

    I have always had good experiences with police actually, even when i was naughty.

    I would have less issue with drug testing if it were more accurate, more like alcohol too, having a limit where impairment is unlikely below it.
     
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