Move to pull police from Victoria's snowfields

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by FatBoyDave, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    Most of the regs we have are heavily influenced by coroner's reports as someone mentioned above. I'd rather that than the alternative.
     
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  2. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    Upside of being liability conscious is we actively do risk assessment better than we otherwise would. Downside is we become too scared to do things because the insurance companies won't touch us.
     
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  3. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    The deaths are relatively inexpensive and low compared to the injury rate from car accidents. Maybe they should look more at those.

    Drink driving is so obviously stupid, so is driving when impaired by anything. Unfortunately many of those impairments are not checkable, and its up to the person to self assess.
     
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  4. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Actually, maybe they can justify removing police from the resorts in winter, as the people who visit are not risk averse!
     
  5. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    To some degree. The RDT tests don't test for impairment so its all rather ambiguous as are the end results.

    Undergrounding power poles would save far more lives and be an evidence based safety program.
     
    #105 dawooduck, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
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  6. VSG

    VSG Pool Room
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    Same. Good, was it not?
     
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  7. VSG

    VSG Pool Room
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  8. DJM

    DJM Dedicated Member
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    What was good about it?

    Someone from our circle was jailed for killing a young woman driving while drunk. Continually driving when drunk back in the day. Doesn't do it anymore.
     
  9. emkae

    emkae Active Member
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    Something that removes substance impaired idiots from the roads and/or encourages them to not drive under the influence is a good thing
     
  10. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Progressive dinners were good!

    But drink driving is obviously stupid.
     
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  11. crackson

    crackson Addicted Member
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    MichaelPhelps.jpg

    MickDoohan.jpg
     
  12. crackson

    crackson Addicted Member
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    AntonyGobert.jpg
     
  13. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    Selectively removes after the fact ....
     
  14. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    Better than not at all.
     
  15. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Wonder how they go in California.
     
  16. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    Tokenism extremes. A fix for an extrapolated problem.
     
  17. WaitAwhile

    WaitAwhile Dedicated Member
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    Maybe we should create a level playing field and just ban anyone from driving that has any sort of alcohol in their system.
    But im sure the masses would jump up and complain.
    Apparently they can test many drugs for strength but its to expensive.
     
  18. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    I guess with illicit drugs they dont have to worry, as its illegal in the first place. Unfortunately the law is an ass sometimes.
     
  19. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    This .... the RDT testing regime is based on ease of roadside methodology.

    The differences between RBT and RDT is obvious. One is conclusive impairment evidence based arbitrary level application and the other is inconclusive impairment non evidence based arbitrary level application
     
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  20. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    The interesting thing is that an RDT is a traffic offence only which over rides any drug offence legislation. An RDT does however enable the police to invoke a just cause vehicle and person search based on a roadside RDT inconclusive positive test which by extension is facilitated by the original RBT legislation that forms the basis of the original roadside stop.

    Can take a good deal of time roadside to result in nothing based on nothing and opens up the innocent party to any number of further "offences" based on individual police "reasonable suspicion".

    So make sure your don't drink, don't associate with pot smokers, pay your rego, have tread on your tyres and all your lights working.

    Feel free to take sleeping tablets, anti psychotics, mood enhancers, work double shifts, talk on your mobile, put on make up, eat, drink, change the station, drive long distances without rest, drive too fast in the rain, not look ahead, drive too close to the car in front and every other traffic/driver distraction because .... none of these road toll statistics will ever come up in the mandatory arbitrary RBT/RDT regime.

    The road toll .... single vehicle run off road accidents and urban inattentive stupidity.

    Its a zoo
     
  21. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    Meanwhile back in "its too wet to police" land ....

     
  22. BillyKidd

    BillyKidd Dedicated Member
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    Sly is on the money.

    Just add to it get the cops to test cars heading up and down.

    And as an aside, we should kill any drug users/dealers. Period.
     
  23. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    What about rapists? Wife beaters?
     
  24. TOFF

    TOFF Old And Crusty
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    While this plan has merit, enforcement would be near impossible.
    Imagine the cries of 'abuse of power' every time somebody did something wrong and then didn't like the outcome. This forum provides a pretty good micro example of this.
     
  25. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    Providing anything for free or discount to police will see you run foul of anti-corruption laws. McDonald's will testify to this.
     
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  26. BillyKidd

    BillyKidd Dedicated Member
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    Yep. Them too.
     
  27. skinavy

    skinavy Dedicated Member

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    Just got off phone from other half and someone moved the road closed signs on a road up in South Nowra so they could drive through. Unfortunately can't charge someone with being a dick (probably something else like Public Mischef)
     
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  28. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    What if we just send them all to New York, like in that Kurt Russell film?

    I live by one simple rule, dont hurt anyone. It covers everything.

    Pity they dont have a roadside test for rape and domestic violence.
     
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  29. BillyKidd

    BillyKidd Dedicated Member
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    Could just send them to Logan (sorry Queenslanders). Probably send Kurt Russell there too.
     
  30. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    I suspect morgue stats say otherwise.
     
  31. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    You can suspect all you want but the current RDT is tokenism after the fact, ambiguous and arbitrary.

    Try and analyse the facts not extrapolate the marketing.

    They need to test directly for impairment in a similar manner as the RBT and they need to include all mood enhancing drugs for the RDT to be anything more than tokenism.

    They are testing for a single legal substance at a prescribed level and 3 illegal substances at without a prescribed level.
     
  32. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    If you're trying to argue you should be able to get away with something illegal, don't bother. Either convince society to legalize your poison of choice or suck it up.
     
  33. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    What ?

    RDT is a traffic offence not an illegal drug offence.
     
  34. WaitAwhile

    WaitAwhile Dedicated Member
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    If thats the case why dont the police just go into areas like Kings Cross, and Northbridge etc and test everyone(pedestrians) for illicit drugs.
    We should test everyone going into and out of a music festival,pubs and nightclubs for illicit drugs.
    If little jonny has a illegal drug in his system why not thow him in jail.
    If its illegal then he is Breaking the Law.
     
  35. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Plenty of people doing it for mine! Even if they only get the medicinal through it will be good. Its criminal from a moral point of view atm.

    Interestingly, if you were to take pure heroin, it would do less damage to your body and brain, than alcohol, but thats another story. The law is about many things, other than right and wrong, or harm.
     
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  36. BillyKidd

    BillyKidd Dedicated Member
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    Re harm levels:

    BMJ Open 2012;2:e000774doi:10.1136/bmjopen-2011-000774


    [​IMG]


    or put another way:

    [​IMG]



    Australia has an alcohol problem and it is absolutely huge. The crack cocaine/ice thing ain't far behind. For some reason we are very good at choosing the worst drugs to have as a national problem and less successful at, ooh, let me see, advanced manufacturing or innovation for example. Priorities.....
     
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  37. TOFF

    TOFF Old And Crusty
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    Interesting. Is there any info on the definitions of 'harm' either to self or others on that scale?
     
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  38. BillyKidd

    BillyKidd Dedicated Member
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    The first image has drugs along the X axis and combined harm (social and self) along the Y axis. If you look on the second image the harm to self is the X axis, the harm to others is the Y axis. The first (reference supplied) has a breakdown of the self/social harm separately in the paper.
     
  39. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Wonder how they measure harm. In either case.
     
  40. BillyKidd

    BillyKidd Dedicated Member
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    Methods
    Nutt et al 4 designed a matrix that included three major categories of harm with each category being subdivided into three groups, producing nine parameters of risk. This nine-parameter scale was adapted (see appendix) to produce a questionnaire to assess physical and psychological harm to self and others for 19 commonly used legal and illegal substances. The nine parameters were (a) physical harm caused by acute, chronic and parenteral use; (b) psychological harm; physical harm and intensity of pleasure linked to dependence and (c) social harm from intoxication; other social harms and associated healthcare costs.
     
  41. TOFF

    TOFF Old And Crusty
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    Yeah, sorry maybe I didn't ask my question well enough.
    I'm wondering what the definition of harm is? If I get pissed, chuck up in the dunny and smack my head on the bowl does that count as self harm?

    Edit: looks like you just answered above :)
     
  42. telecrag

    telecrag Part of the Furniture
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    Ooh, a matrix!
     
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  43. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    Yes and if we can't get a sensible limit or other threshold of impairment in the testing regime mandatory roadside drug testing should be abolished for drivers of light vehicles, except as I'd said after major incidents and as ordered by a court.
     
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  44. sly_karma

    sly_karma Part of the Furniture
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    Should be able to set this up through official channels, take the police station down a step in status to part time community station with off duty officers providing some free hours. Surely district office bean counters will love the savings. The lift pass is not a freebie, it's needed to perform the job. Here the policy is to have a generic pass with no name of photo on it, the pass just says "RCMP Member 1", "RCMP member 2", etc. Whoever is around that day puts it on and goes out to keep an eye on things.
     
  45. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    Because atm it doesn't matter if the test picks up "old" usage because it's illegal anyway.
     
  46. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    If the police have reasonable suspicion then they may well do so with the proviso the situation warrants the hours of paperwork it would generate.
     
  47. DbSki

    DbSki Part of the Furniture
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    But the act under which the road side tests are done do not allow for it to be used as any evidence involving the prohibited substances act.
    They had to make special legislation for that otherwise it never would have passed parliament.
     
  48. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    It is very unclear exactly what points you are making here.

    The RDT traffic offence, does not enforce illegality of substance.
     
  49. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer
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    My point is you're bitching about getting caught for something that is illegal.
     
  50. ladycamper

    ladycamper Dedicated Member
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    Some mass retailers do too according to my source, so they get looked after in return. Quid pro quo.