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Discussion in 'Mt Buller' started by Dave Clark, Aug 9, 2018.
No. But there will be spelling lessons once you get to Burnt Hut.!!
Yes apologies. Fat fingers on a dinky I6 phone, on a wobbly train, without my glasses on.
Note to self: lift game! (;-)
Was made in 83, installed in 84
What does everyone think the new chair should be called?
"Bourke Street Chair lift" would be a novel idea but after they called a Chairlift Bonza who knows
I suspect the new chair will be whatever the latest sponsor is just to ensure they confuses the shit out of any visitors trying to find their way around.
I'd like it to be called 'Bourke St' as well but I also acknowledge that the chance of this is zero.
I have no doubt that it should be named after John Hilton-Wood. He did even more than Hans Grimus for ski lifts on Buller over a much longer period (he was involved for 60 years).
But I suspect Hilton-Wood isn't a sufficiently snappy name to satisfy the marketers plus there's no money to be made from it. So I suspect the new six pack will be named after a brand of cat food or a brand of car or similar.
Mountain identity and legend passes
Mt Buller News. 3 Jun 2016
MT BULLER community has lost a legend from its fold with the passing of mountain identity John Hilton-Wood.
Mr Hilton-Wood passed away on May 15 2016 with a funeral service held at Mt Eliza on May 23.
Hilton-Wood worked and lived for Mt Buller from 1949 with the completion of the first tow rope.
With an engineering degree and little experience he worked the tow rope each winter as he had been part of the construction team but later could see the potential for ski lifts and was encouraged to build Buller’s second lift by Ernest Forras, who said he would give him the backing and arrange the necessary permits.
Running down Bull Run that ski lift opened in 1953.
Buying out the Forras brothers, Aurel and Ernest, Hilton-Wood ran the tow rope until 1962 when he replaced it with the Bull Run T-bar.
In 1959 Hilton-Wood expanded his ground, opening the Skyline rope tow which ran until 1962 when he replaced it with a T-bar on the same line it still follows.
He went on to operate under the Blue Lifts brand.
Hilton-Wood ran Bull Run Enterprises which expanded in 1962, replacing its rope tow with a T-bar and installing the Skyline T-bar in 1963.
In 1964 Hilton-Wood installed the Bourke Street chairlift - the first Doppelmayr double chair in the world.
Hilton-Wood, along with his wife Marjorie and her family, operated Blue Lifts, and although a second company, Orange Lifts was moving faster ahead, remained stable.
In competition with Orange Lifts, Blue Lifts did expand and it became a real battle with the two companies trying to not only keep up with each other but outdo each other.
Hilton-Wood believed that’s why Mt Buller developed faster than any other mountain in Australia.
For more than 18 years chairman of Orange Lifts, David Hume, asked Hilton-Wood to merge the companies, but Hilton-Wood would not agree.
Hilton-Wood eventually agreed to purchase half of the Orange Lifts and created the Bourke Street Ski Lift Company.
Finally in 1985 Blue Lift Company purchased the Orange Lift Company and on the day after it is recorded that Hilton-Wood bought paint brushes and paint and ordered every man on the mountain to paint the orange towers blue.
At the time the combined chairlifts on the mountain was 23 with a people moving capacity of 20,000 per hour.
Since 1997 John Hilton-Wood was involved in organisational change but continued his connections with the mountain.
He helped more than 50 businesses focus on the bottom line and worked with the businesses on process re-engineering and change management strategies to ensure that they developed working management operating systems that deliver sustainable economies of scale and savings.
I doubt they are the types to put their name in lights so to speak, but I could go for the 'Grollo Family Express' as they have done a huge amount for the mountain.
I’d love if the name stayed as BB, for continuity and as a lasting nod to the old lift company, but also quite unlikely I guess.
A six pack is screaming out for a beer sponsor.
Lift Mclift Face
Why not "The Bourke Bullet" or just "Bourke Bullet" .
Still can be affectionately known as BB. Paint it Blue to keep some Blue Lifts / Hilton-Wood dna .---When Grimus is rebuilt, paint it Orange.
Then when your children's children ask you, "Why is this one Blue?" and "Why is this one Orange?"
You will say ,"Once upon a time there were 2 lift companies at Mt Buller. The bosses of Orange and Blue Lifts, back then were Hans Grimus and John HW... Lets go to Kofflers for an apricot mogul because this is a long story of the Battle of Mt Buller......"
wow thats amazingly good.4 years at "marketing school " and thats all you can come up with
I'm still trying to think of a way of naming the new six-pack after John Hilton-Wood. After all, he built both its predecessors at considerable financial risk. Both were innovative and unproven technology; the original Bourke St Chair was the first Doppelmayr double chair in the world, while the second (BB1) was one of the first detachable quad chairs in the world. I think I can safely say that through all his other work, Hilton-Wood did more to develop Buller than any other person. So he deserves a decent memorial.
But naming it John Hilton-Wood would be unwieldy, JHW isn't much better. Just calling it Hilton-Wood sounds like it's sponsored by the hotel chain (although all three of their Melbourne hotels appear to have changed franchises).
Did he have a nickname when he was young? Even Johnno's Chair might be do-able?
Unfortunately i think it will be named after the corperation who comes up with the most money to sponsor it
should be called, "Get me outa here, express"
Hmm, like this?
Slim chance I know, but ultimately, keeping the name Blue Bullet would have my vote. Name changes, especially when pimped with commercial names, those that change with the seasons and $$ thrown at them, are so unappealing. I would still refer to it as BB, as I adamantly do with Shakey Knees, Abom, Burnt Hut and Horsehill.
Although, if it's going to be a six pack, I guess I could go with;
Ditto. Except it’s Helicopter not Abom. And don’t forget Chamois.
Yeah, I do call it Chamois, the alternative is way too long.
Evidently though, I'm too much of a newbie for Helicopter. I knew there was Helicopter Flat, but I only knew the chair as Abom (and Blue Bullet 2 before that).
I remember when Skyline T-bar was called Collins Street and the Shaky Knees / Lindsay Fox lift was Swanston Street.
Actually I'm not that old, but those were the names about 55 years ago.
Could do worse than just JHW Express. IIRC Steamboat has a lift called Bar-UE, named after a cattle brand. JHW is pretty straightforward by comparison
Few pics from the vault 89/90:
HQ in da house - suggests they’re working on the new tower footings and so on now.
Old load still partially intact:
It appears as though some of the old framework os being used for the new structure
Nah it'll go soon
Have you seen it yourself lately
it's gone already. Most the load station concrete is poured, first tower and second
towers as well, part poured on the next two.
make that all tower foundations are now complete!
I've been told that the new 6 seat lift will have no greater uplift capacity than the previous quad due to the new chair spacing. Does anyone know if this is correct? Apologies if this has been covered already.
Sounds about right.
Same goes for high speed quads versus fixed grip quads. Just get the same number of people to the top quicker, not more people.
For a chairlift the number of passengers depends on chair frequency, regardless of whether it is fixed grip or detachable. So a quad chair can theoretically move 3,000 people per hour if there is a fairly quick 4.8 second interval between chairs and if every chair is full.
In the real world a 4.8 second interval between chairs is a bit fast for most circumstances, (especially if there are beginners or low intermediates using a lift) and of course you never get a situation where every chair has 4 people on it. So most quad chairs move around 2,000 per hour.
Therefore a 6-pack should be able to move about 1½ times as many people as a quad, around 3,000 per hour. If there was a reasonable 6 second or longer interval between chairs on the old BB1, there would be no reason to allow more time between chairs on the new lift.
The difference is if there is no queue - if you ski straight on to a detachable, the shorter time spent on the lift means more laps.
Not sure that's answered the question to be honest - I get the theory but sounds like nobody actually knows the full logistics of the new setup. I was told this by an instructor from Buller so will be interesting to see if it comes to pass.
It will be a shame if the uplift isn't increased with the new lift - although I get that the old one just needed replacing regardless. Yes, it's primarily used by beginners and ski school, but there are times where other parts of the mountain are closed (or horse hill isn't running for day visitors for example) and you just need to use it to get up the mountain. Highly annoying when you have to queue for ever and a day just to get up that lift and fifty groups of snow squad, race squad and ski school get priority and the queue basically doesn't move!
What I was trying to say that there is no mechanical or passenger related reason to increase the time between chairs.
Therefore the new 6-pack WILL be able to shift 1½ times as many people as the old quad. There is no reason to doubt that.
Ah okay, thanks. Maybe they plan to simply run it extra slow because there are so many clueless people using that lift. The stuff you see there sometimes is absolute gold. Although if it's detachable you'd think it's slow enough already. Time will tell I guess.
Yeah, but I suspect they also ran the old lift fairly slow because there were plenty of clueless people using it. The ratio of inexperienced people and/or idiots using the lift is not going to increase, so there is no reason to increase the time between chairs.
They would have worked out the best chair interval for that particular location over 25 years ago, so they wouldn't be changing it now.
I think since the new Helicopter* chair went in, which is a detachable six pack, they will have worked out the optimum specs and I would expect the new Bourke St chair to mirror this.
My general impression of maximum uplift capacity over the years is such.
Platter 600 per hour
High speed poma 800
Double chair 1200
Triple chair 1800
Fixed Quad 2400
Detachable Quad 2800
These figures are based on no missed passengers and lift running at it's maximum legal speed.
In reality Fixed Quads like Easy Does It at Thredbo never run anywhere maximum speed and some chairs like Village Quad at Hotham seem to have super close chair spacing.
My understanding of why a Detachable Quad can potentially carry 400 more per hour than a Fixed Grip is the chair frequency is able to be slightly increased on account of the easier and slower loading/unloading.
There is a possibility that the new 6-pack may operate with slower chair frequency to help give beginners more time loading. Technically this might mean little capacity increase over the old BB1, in practice however it should be a improvement.
Snap, @CarveMan and @Bogong. Our last paragraphs so close!
Yeah, I'm pretty much in agreement with OnlyBS, except back in the good old days when the world was young they used to have self-loading high speed pomas serving dark-blue and black slopes. On occasions there was a sort of unspoken contest to load as quickly as possible and when I was primary school age, I saw a lot of skiers going up these slopes only 4 or 5 metres apart. At a 5 metre per second rope speed (a little faster than most detachable chairs) that means that in some circumstances a Poma could shift the more people than a modern detachable quad.
Of course the old days of the Brockhoff Poma at Hotham are long gone and the Inter at Falls Creek only runs at half the speed it used to.
Fun fact. The old double ended Summit Access / Howqua Poma at Buller originally ran at 6½ metres a second for a few years before they slowed it down. That probably made it it the world's fastest ski lift of all time.
Yes, this is the gist of what I have been told. It will presumably be more comfortable and more reliable which is obviously a plus. Although god help the lift operator who has to try and load six bused in sightseers with their two eskys, three random cardboard boxes, five toboggans and no understanding of chairlifts all at the same time...
That is probably why you when taking off from Howqua, you spent the first half of the trip up about 10 feet up in the air with the jerk take off!
I worked on it for a few weeks.
It ran at 4 to 5 m/s at most during the day as I recall, it was capable of 6.5 m/s.
Was powered by a V12 air cooled 2 stroke Deutz Diesel which was handy for drying gloves on when it rained while working Bk St lifts.
After last lifts Crazy Joe the foreman used to crank it up to full speed at 6.5 m/s while I sent the remaining hangars back to Bk St and then had to catch the last one myself which was risky.
Chances of Crazy Joe sending one back if I fell off and called him on the phone was about zero.
I had to pull the release handle with one hand and hang on like **** with the other for the launch.
Launching off at 6.5 m/s required some skill because of the air time involved.
Yeah, I think they only operated the Howqua/Summit Access Poma at full bore for the public in it's first couple of years, when it was brand new. My understanding is that after analysing the carnage, they slowed it down a fair bit and only ran it flat out for employees.
I'm old enough to have used it as a kid, but by then they had put a speed limit on it for the public and only allowed it to run at insane speeds for towies and other staff like DbSki.
Confirming new lift name is Bourke Street Express
Good stuff. Until the highest bidder comes along!!!!!
Saw pics of the Buller delegation at the Doppelmayr factory this week. That new 3S Gondola from Mirimbah is going to be a winner
Actually CM, having just come from the Buller Labor Day w/e bike event, I reckon a Mirimbah/Village/Spurs gondolas isn't so radical - although the cost may be!
A decent gondola lag would be better than the fleet of smoky busses the contractor was running over the weekend - not much fun to breathe as one cycled up the road.
I had to smile that there were warnings of oil on the tourist road on a hairpin above the skating rink - it 'would' be ironic if it was proved that one these same smoky sag wagons dropped the oil, making it dangerous for road cyclists??
Oh to have a cool 20 or 30 mill sitting unloved for a rainy (smoky) day?