New Guthega Quad CONFIRMED for 2014

robbo mcs

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Anyone know if the new lift is fixed grip or high speed detachable? In the lack of anything in the promotion to say otherwise I'm assuming fixed grip.

Of course it does not make any difference to the number of skiiers transported per hour. However, a high speed means less time on the chair and therefore a more comfortable
 

GlenH

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Does anybody remember this lift was marked as 'proposed' on the Guthega trail map way back before Blue Cow bought it almost 25 years ago!
 

GlenH

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robbo mcs said:
Anyone know if the new lift is fixed grip or high speed detachable? In the lack of anything in the promotion to say otherwise I'm assuming fixed grip.

Of course it does not make any difference to the number of skiiers transported per hour.
I'd be fairly certain a detachable moves a lot more skiers per hour.
 
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wangster

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Fixed grip is cheaper & depending on the configuration of the lift can move as many skiers. Before the V8 Interceptor had the highest lifting capacity in the resort iirc
 

VSG

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Some text. Remembering both the images I have posted and this text is a number of years old.

The proposed (now confirmed accord. to this thread) quad at Guthega:
guthqdsmallmap.png

gthqd1.png

gthqd2.png



The linking chair from Guthega back to top of ?Pleasant Valley?
linkmapsmall.png


link1.png

link3.png

link2.png
 
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telecrag

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robbo mcs said:
Anyone know if the new lift is fixed grip or high speed detachable?

Do they still make fixed grip? I cant buy a beta video player anymore. Or are they scrounging the tips of Japan?

200m vert, hahaha, thats a Tbar.

Agree with TP, if there is no snowmaking, and you triple the traffic.....one hour in the morning and its over.

But at least they are talking about something new, last new thing was the V8, what a ripper.
 
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Bato

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Ive heard its a fixed grip with a load carpet, not sure how well it will work with the level of skiing/riding here. Ive been on load carpet fixed grips overseas that run fairly quick, not sure they will be able to run it full speed here.
 

Podlet

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regardless of capacity and what is or isn't approved it would have to be a fixed grip due to the wind, even though the position will be more protected than the cow t bar, it's still a very exposed spot. detachables close at much much lower wind speeds eg Pleasant valley, especially if they are crosswinds. Winds that go up the line can be stronger for both types of chairs
 

JoeKing

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Podlet said:
regardless of capacity and what is or isn't approved it would have to be a fixed grip due to the wind, even though the position will be more protected than the cow t bar, it's still a very exposed spot. detachables close at much much lower wind speeds eg Pleasant valley, especially if they are crosswinds. Winds that go up the line can be stronger for both types of chairs
Q:

Respectfully, I ask..

What does fixed grip have to do with the wind? I thought the reason for chairlift closure in wind was due to the chairs banging on the towers.
 
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robbo mcs

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GlenH said:
I'd be fairly certain a detachable moves a lot more skiers per hour.

Generally a detachable does not move more skiiers per hour than a fixed grip, assuming they both have the same kind of loading ramp. There is a limit to how frequently the chairs come through the load station from a practical point of view. That is the whole reason they have detachables, so they can run the chair quickly, but slow down the chairs in the loading and unloading zones

If you think about it, the same number of chairs move through the loading zone per minute on both. It has been discussed in length on these forums in the past. The ride time on a detachable will be shorter.
 
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JoeKing

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robbo mcs said:
GlenH said:
I'd be fairly certain a detachable moves a lot more skiers per hour.

Generally a detachable does not move more skiiers per hour than a fixed grip, assuming they both have the same kind of loading ramp. There is a limit to how frequently the chairs come through the load station from a practical point of view. That is the whole reason they have detachables, so they can run the chair quickly, but slow down the chairs in the loading and unloading zones

If you think about it, the same number of chairs move through the loading zone per minute on both. It has been discussed in length on these forums in the past. The ride time on a detachable will be shorter.
.


Makes sense. I've always presumed that since it's detachable you could ramp up the actual wire speed so it is faster since you aren't hitting skiiers in the arse with full speed chairs.

Not the case huh?
 
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robbo mcs

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JoeKing said:
Makes sense. I've always presumed that since it's detachable you could ramp up the actual wire speed so it is faster since you aren't hitting skiiers in the arse with full speed chairs.

Not the case huh?

Yes, that is the case. On a detachable the wire runs much faster. The ride time on a detachable is shorter, and they achieve more skiier vertical metres per hour. However, assuming they both have the same loading system (ie moving carpet or standard) they will have roughly the same capacity per hour in total lifted skiiers.

However, if they are not at full capacity a detachable will allow any one individual more runs per hour.

It is quite complicated. Best not to think too hard about it too hard otherwise it makes your brain hurt

Bottom line is a detachable would be preferable.
 
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Astro66

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Lift spacing is normally set to 6 seconds whether it's detachable or fixed, so number of people moved remains the same.

The only variable is speed to the top, so you could do more runs on a detachable chaiflift, if it's running below it's rated capacity.

If it's running at or above capacity. Whilst you get to the top quicker on a detachable, you would just wait longer to get on.
 

nfip

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Comment from an old timer, not I..., was that should have ( per early planning) for base station n/ west of platter and finish higher and further East of proposed, with top tower and bullwheel / return covered to relieve wind hold issues.
 

JoeKing

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AstroSki66 said:
Lift spacing is normally set to 6 seconds whether it's detachable or fixed, so number of people moved remains the same.

The only variable is speed to the top, so you could do more runs on a detachable chaiflift, if it's running below it's rated capacity.

If it's running at or above capacity. Whilst you get to the top quicker on a detachable, you would just wait longer to get on.

That makes sense. But my brain still hurt.

smile.gif
 
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VSG

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nfip said:
Comment from an old timer, not I..., was that should have ( per early planning) for base station n/ west of platter and finish higher and further East of proposed, with top tower and bullwheel / return covered to relieve wind hold issues.

Very sensible. Must be a reason why they have sited it how they have. Top station, that is.
 
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Podlet

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JoeKing said:
Podlet said:
regardless of capacity and what is or isn't approved it would have to be a fixed grip due to the wind, even though the position will be more protected than the cow t bar, it's still a very exposed spot. detachables close at much much lower wind speeds eg Pleasant valley, especially if they are crosswinds. Winds that go up the line can be stronger for both types of chairs
Q:

Respectfully, I ask..

What does fixed grip have to do with the wind? I thought the reason for chairlift closure in wind was due to the chairs banging on the towers.

I should have said im basing my comments purely on the pleasant valley chair design, so thats what 25yrs now? Wow thats crazy to think that. But i digress....

I cant remember specifics but remember the maintenance guys being very touchy about cross wind speeds for pleasant valley and if there was a breathe of wind they would sit in the lift hut at the bottom or top watching wind speeds and it'd be shut well before any others and it wasnt due to chairs hitting towers or being anywhere near capable of doing that.

No doubt detachables have come a long way since then, but on the whole ive noticed they close sooner than a fixed grip. I'll ask one of the guys im still in touch with and post back
 
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JoeKing

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Podlet said:
JoeKing said:
Podlet said:
regardless of capacity and what is or isn't approved it would have to be a fixed grip due to the wind, even though the position will be more protected than the cow t bar, it's still a very exposed spot. detachables close at much much lower wind speeds eg Pleasant valley, especially if they are crosswinds. Winds that go up the line can be stronger for both types of chairs
Q:

Respectfully, I ask..

What does fixed grip have to do with the wind? I thought the reason for chairlift closure in wind was due to the chairs banging on the towers.

I should have said im basing my comments purely on the pleasant valley chair design, so thats what 25yrs now? Wow thats crazy to think that. But i digress....

I cant remember specifics but remember the maintenance guys being very touchy about cross wind speeds for pleasant valley and if there was a breathe of wind they would sit in the lift hut at the bottom or top watching wind speeds and it'd be shut well before any others and it wasnt due to chairs hitting towers or being anywhere near capable of doing that.

Nar, thanks for the candor. It's all good.

No doubt detachables have come a long way since then, but on the whole ive noticed they close sooner than a fixed grip. I'll ask one of the guys im still in touch with and post back

Somehow I don't trust that anything we get in Oz will anywhere near state of the art. Historically, it's more like we get second hand some other country's superseded shit. But anyway I don't want discourage you from informing us of actual facts rather than my rotten, miserable blurbs.

smile.gif
 
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scullee

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Its probably because of the extra equipment on a detatchable when it enters the station. If a chair hits that swinging too much it makes a big mess. Happened on the wizard at blackcomb one year and shredded the station.
 

Podlet

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That does ring a bell Scullee, as well as the rope position in the sheaves. It can set off sn alarm which shuts the whole lift down if the rope jumps out too far.

It was almost 20 years ago now, so memory is getting foggy
 

scullee

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Both fixed and detachable have tower derail sensors so that shouldnt be an issue.

Either way, there is no way they would do a detachable there, the extra cost just isnt worth it. Its not beginner terrain so loading ease isnt a problem.

Can you make it across to burning log and guthega pub without the j bar?
 

D-eye

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scullee said:
Can you make it across to burning log and guthega pub without the j bar?

Burning log easily, the pub requires a little bit of uphill if coming from that side of the hill.
 
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VSG

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Podlet said:
That does ring a bell Scullee, as well as the rope position in the sheaves. It can set off sn alarm which shuts the whole lift down if the rope jumps out too far.

It was almost 20 years ago now, so memory is getting foggy

Old age is a beach. That young thing I met at Thredbo some years back... what happened?
outtahere.gif
EvilGrin.gif
 
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Astro66

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Podlet said:
That does ring a bell Scullee, as well as the rope position in the sheaves. It can set off sn alarm which shuts the whole lift down if the rope jumps out too far.

It was almost 20 years ago now, so memory is getting foggy
Detachables, at load and unload, require chair to synchronize into spacing unit after detaching. Many moving parts and alignment issues. Any sideways movement when synchronizing trips unit out.

Hugely more prone to early closure if windy. Especially if Top Station is exposed to wind, with skiers acting as sails.
 
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pansnow

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Another reason they maybe using a fixed grip is the size of the bottom station.
If you have a detachable chair you need to have a large storage area at the base.
I,m 99% sure they are stored overnight at the base and it ends up a fairly large shed.
If you look at the fixed grip chairs they all have much smaller loading stations this is also a reason why they are cheaper to build I would guess. I have forgotten they name of the lift at falls creek but you can see buy the webcam in summer that there is one of the chairs I would guess it is fixed grip where they remove all chairs for the summer and place them on the ground I guess that stop any possible damage from high winds in summer.
 

skiflat

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Pretty much comes down to cost vs benefit.... Plus the cross wind here will be interesting

Another good area for a new lift would be starting at the bottom of between The Screw and Mother in Law and finishing up near the top of racecourse

This area has some nice runs and is very underutilised, a Tbar would be great here!
 
H

Hacski

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VSG said:
Old age is a beach. That young thing I met at Thredbo some years back... what happened?
outtahere.gif
EvilGrin.gif
That's why God made our shart focus eyesight deteriorate with age.

Is the main benefit of detachable that it makes loading safer, i.e. slower chair, but then it reconnects with the higher speed main cable. One way of simulating this effect at least to a degree is using a magic carpet in the loading area as on the V8, at a lot cheaper cost I'd imagine.
 
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Donza

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skiflat said:
Pretty much comes down to cost vs benefit.... Plus the cross wind here will be interesting

No really a cross wind spot i'd think...
Would be interesting...cause it sorta runs up a valley...
the strongest wind will come from lookers left near the top..a Norwester...yet it should be sorta sheltered
There isn't another chair in NSW at that aspect...direction etc
 
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SnowAndrew

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pansnow said:
Another reason they maybe using a fixed grip is the size of the bottom station.
If you have a detachable chair you need to have a large storage area at the base.
I,m 99% sure they are stored overnight at the base and it ends up a fairly large shed.
If you look at the fixed grip chairs they all have much smaller loading stations this is also a reason why they are cheaper to build I would guess. I have forgotten they name of the lift at falls creek but you can see buy the webcam in summer that there is one of the chairs I would guess it is fixed grip where they remove all chairs for the summer and place them on the ground I guess that stop any possible damage from high winds in summer.

Yes the chairs are stored on detachables, but sometimes they are stored at the top e.g. V8 - my assumption being that they wanted to keep the size of the building at the bottom to a minimum.
 
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SnowAndrew

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Hacski said:
VSG said:
Old age is a beach. That young thing I met at Thredbo some years back... what happened?
outtahere.gif
EvilGrin.gif
That's why God made our shart focus eyesight deteriorate with age.

Is the main benefit of detachable that it makes loading safer, i.e. slower chair, but then it reconnects with the higher speed main cable. One way of simulating this effect at least to a degree is using a magic carpet in the loading area as on the V8, at a lot cheaper cost I'd imagine.
I think the carpet would be required on a large capacity lift such as V8 to get people that sit on the inside of the turning circle out of the way of the chair - you will notice the gates are staggered in opening to allow them to get through first. Whilst they don't seem to be a requirement on quad chairs, I assume it would make loading a little quicker/safer than otherwise.
 
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Podlet

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Um I think you might find that a Norwester will almost be 90 to the lift so definitely cross winds and its not far enough around that hill to be protected at all once it gets to the level of the top poma hut

VSG - that's was only 5 years ago yes? Add 5 years and I'm now old
wink.gif
 
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Jamesc

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what pub, there is no pub, dont know what your talking about, move along nothing to see here
 

FilMakowski

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Wanna bet? How about I give you two seasons passes at Perisher if there is more snow in the next five years than in the past 5, and if not I get a season pass to Niseko (at least Niseko isn't currently marginal like Aussie resorts are becoming).
 

skisax

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GlenH said:
Does anybody remember this lift was marked as 'proposed' on the Guthega trail map way back before Blue Cow bought it almost 25 years ago!

I have a feeling that the foundations for the lift towers may already in place...
 
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H

Hacski

Guest
Hacski, you mean something like this, looks pretty fast?
That's it Fandango. Both the chair and carpet are fast but the difference isn't, effectively turning the chair into a detachable one, i.e. slower.
 
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