No snow play this winter

Discussion in 'Thredbo' started by Sean Sunley, Mar 22, 2018.

  1. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    19,285
    Likes Received:
    8,364
    We are addicted to our cars and very few of actually embrace bus culture unless there is absolutely no other choice. This is particularly prevalent among the post codes of those who ski. The result is the actual (as opposed to the imagined) demand is small and that makes it difficult the get an every 30 minute service viable.

    It might work if supported by external funding for say the first 2 years.
     
    currawong and dawooduck like this.
  2. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    73,361
    Likes Received:
    35,161
    It’s unfathomable that they don’t exist.
     
    currawong likes this.
  3. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    19,285
    Likes Received:
    8,364
    See post #51
     
  4. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    55,974
    Likes Received:
    22,759
    No reliable demand and extra cost.

    When the resorts are "full" on the weekends that a bus might offer some respite the "extra crowd" is mostly Epic pass holders looking for value and snow play groups of the same demographic. i.e. self sufficient value seekers. If parking at the resorts is overloaded then a bus is provided from overflow carpark to resort centre. i.e minimum cost maximum demand loading.

    That there is no free regular staff bus is shameful.
     
    LMB likes this.
  5. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    73,361
    Likes Received:
    35,161
    It would work if they banned cars from the park.
     
    skifree likes this.
  6. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    How is Australia different from Canada? I agree we are a car culture but if done properly as an add on to say a weekend or multi day ticket there will be plenty that see the benefit (no risk with rbt). Pick up and drop off at pubs, Thredbo would cover the cost of the bus in beer sales alone.

    In Banff we watched people line up every morning in minus 30 to get the free bus to either sunshine or lake Louise.
     
  7. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    19,285
    Likes Received:
    8,364
    Dunno, but I am echoing the thoughts of Perisher PR folks from a couple of years ago having the same discussion with them. I think Canadians are better attuned to bus culture across a larger range of their population than we are here is Oz.

    edit, that's not to say we could not effect change with a bit of effort across all aspects of a ski hills activities such as marketing, timetabling and so on to encourage mass transport use. I think we could but all would have to be on-board.
     
  8. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    26,702
    Likes Received:
    19,910
    There is also an issue of conservatism. There has always been buses (guess) from Banff to Sunshine & LL, so people catch buses - it's how they do it.

    People drive cars from Jindabyne to Thredbo, Perisher and the Toob - it's how people do it so they will continue to do it.

    Changing habits is hard.
     
  9. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    I’m not sure it would be that hard to change culture, people jumped onto the ski tube pretty quickly, so why wouldn’t buses be easy. Start cheap get people to make it a thing then slowly increase costs.

    Don’t get me wrong I don’t think you will get families straight away, but target the young crowd first and it will slowly catch on. I’m pretty sure there is already a bus from one hotel in east Jindy that buses up to Thredbo.
     
  10. crackson

    crackson A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,496
    Likes Received:
    4,523
  11. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2014
    Messages:
    26,702
    Likes Received:
    19,910
    I think the attraction of the Toob was convenience and avoiding chains and the potential carnage of the road. I'm not sure that a bus would have the same sort of factors.
     
  12. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    24,368
    Likes Received:
    18,848
    Staff buses would be a start.
     
    CarveMan, dawooduck and LMB like this.
  13. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty!
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    24,486
    Likes Received:
    12,707
    Absolutely.

    It’s unbelievable that resort staff are often hitching at the roundabout....

    There should be transport provided that works out way cheaper for them than driving to compensate for the inconvenience and encourage use.
     
  14. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    19,285
    Likes Received:
    8,364
    Buses to the toob would br good.

    But it’s currently cheaper to drive to P than to the toob then pay for the toob.
     
  15. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    24,368
    Likes Received:
    18,848
    But the tube as a season pass add on can be as low as $69
    How's that work with npws ?
     
  16. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    19,285
    Likes Received:
    8,364
    I reckoned about equal cost in dollars but add the additional time which i value and you are behind.

    Yes i have lived in Jindy and worked in Perisher for several seasons. So i am talking from empirical but real data. No I don’t have numbers.
     
    crackson likes this.
  17. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    24,368
    Likes Received:
    18,848
    ?
    No I meant how does npws arrive at a season pass figure for a person?
    Surely a bus could have a similar arrangement.
     
  18. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
    Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    19,285
    Likes Received:
    8,364
    It does, I remember the details, refer NPWS website.
     
  19. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    24,368
    Likes Received:
    18,848
    You pay per passenger daily with a bus.
    Hence why there are virtually no private companies running buses up.
     
    skifree likes this.
  20. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    Is this for the school buses and Murray buses that run from Canberra? I was wondering this as well, how does the ski tube get away with it
     
  21. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    24,368
    Likes Received:
    18,848
    Yup... For commercial . Not sure re school bus.
    Base fee plus $11.55 (last time I checked) per pax.
     
  22. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    Given Thredbo / crackenback run a free shuttle in summer for bikers there would have to be an option in winter to waive that fee.
     
  23. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    Isn’t there already a bus? I’ve noticed lots of people parking at pender lea
     
  24. chicski

    chicski A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    7,485
    LCR isn’t free and they have to drop a manifest at the entry gate every trip.
     
  25. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    I thought the shuttle you were going to take was free,
     
  26. chicski

    chicski A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    7,485
    Thredbo don’t charge for their pickup one, LCR charge $10 pp and they get charged pp park entry fee.
     
    zac150 likes this.
  27. chicski

    chicski A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    7,485
    I wonder if Thredbo has to pay for its pickups. It could be argued that those people have already paid entry since they usually have started in Thredbo.
     
    zac150 likes this.
  28. Billy_Buttons

    Billy_Buttons A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    Employees get NPWS Staff Passes.
     
  29. chicski

    chicski A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    7,485
    I’m talking about the Thredbo shuttle bus that picks up mtbers after riding down the TVT to LCR.
     
    Billy_Buttons likes this.
  30. kiter

    kiter One of Us

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    258
    That would never wash with npws and nsw govt . Those clowns can't see the forest for the trees . Surely with some lobbying of local snowy members and state members there's gotta be a new way of doing things that gos beyond the current money grab . Encouraging people to use busses rather than choking the park with cars is preferable surely
     
    skifree likes this.
  31. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    34,241
    Likes Received:
    17,685
    Do they pick up at Ngarigo or Diggings rather than LCR? And so not leave the Park?
     
  32. crackson

    crackson A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,496
    Likes Received:
    4,523
    Staff get $20 passes for winter.

    That's why they should park at the tip.
     
  33. chicski

    chicski A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    7,485
    No. LCR I believe. I’m not saying Thredbo don’t get charged a pp park entry, but they don’t charge for their bus.
     
  34. chicski

    chicski A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    7,485
    Perisher staff have to catch the tube in peak season. I thought Thredbo ran a staff bus?
     
  35. crackson

    crackson A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,496
    Likes Received:
    4,523
    No the troopy is hidden away for hotel staff. No other staff are ever told about it. Not a bus. It's a private service for one department.
     
  36. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    28,504
    Likes Received:
    11,160
    except snowplayers are existing paying customers - for the national park. there is no other charge to park at thredbo.

    i agree that it is an ssue if they are using resort slopes. but if they are paying to use the np then they are just as entitled to park at thredbo as at dhg. maybe thredbo need to think about premium car parking fees. problem wheni t's quiet and they have to pay to run buses from budget car parks

    vic have charges to enter resort, not np. same problem though because lift co do not run the resort. however, as i've said elsewhere, falls see this as an opportunity, not a weakness. they encourage snowplayers and xc and try to increase the exposure to lifted snowsports/higher spend visitation. there is definitely some success in this, just looking at changing demographics on skis/boards. with dedicated skiers/boarders spending a lot of their snow budget os it is essential to create new skiers/boarders

    that said, falls does have a parking problem on some weekends.
     
  37. crackson

    crackson A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,496
    Likes Received:
    4,523
    How much profit do npws and thredbo need to pocket before they build suitable infrastructure for peak periods?
     
  38. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2017
    Messages:
    24,368
    Likes Received:
    18,848
    Offering alternatives is cheaper than building stuff.

    I also think you should require a ON pass for ON parking.
     
  39. Richard

    Richard Maintenance Dept
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1995
    Messages:
    11,523
    Likes Received:
    7,659
    shabu_shabu likes this.
  40. skichanger

    skichanger A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    5,904
    Likes Received:
    2,374
    Yeah I found it a bit weird that they are reporting it has just been announced. Poor journalism.
     
  41. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    2,695
    Likes Received:
    3,258
    I have a feeling it is Thredbo and Perisher media pushing the story into the paper, apart from dedicated snow goers who would have seen the old media release. Now everyone knows
     
    PMG likes this.
  42. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    34,968
    Likes Received:
    12,993
    With the dee's going so well i'm a little surprised you haven't been posting in the AFL thread
     
  43. Mr. Mook

    Mr. Mook One of Us

    Joined:
    May 21, 2001
    Messages:
    2,811
    Likes Received:
    429
    Been watching the new basin video feed this weekend ( because its the only one where there is decent snow on the ground) and there has been quite a few people trekking across the snow from the walking track to the hill for some snowplay & tobogganing....
     
    zac150 likes this.
  44. Billy_Buttons

    Billy_Buttons A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    They clearly have a death wish.
     
  45. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    28,504
    Likes Received:
    11,160
    the Vic resorts have a legislated obligation to provide the opportunity of snow experiences to everyone.

    Buller lift co may be able to refuse access to their lease, but the resort must let people in
     
    Poppies likes this.
  46. Poppies

    Poppies Hard Yards
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2018
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    91
    Beaches have heavily subsidised regular public transportation. We at the snow don't get an appropriate share of our taxes spent on public facilities and services in alpine regions, but billions spent on couch potato sports.
     
  47. Poppies

    Poppies Hard Yards
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2018
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    91
    Abolishing overnight parking in ski resorts would collapse the high yield accommodation industry in the region, cause job and economic losses, how can there be a luxury experience if you have to share an old, crowded and smelly bus or train for your holidays?
     
  48. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    28,504
    Likes Received:
    11,160
    CP?

    doesn't seem to hurt them that you can't drive in
     
  49. Billy_Buttons

    Billy_Buttons A Local
    Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    5,423
    Likes Received:
    3,493
    I tend to agree with Poppies. Australian's are addicted to their cars and being parked in very close proximity to front door.