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NSW National parks- increased access to hunters and horseriders

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by seak, May 30, 2012.

  1. seak

    seak One of Us

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    National parks in NSW will be opened up to recreational hunters as part of a deal between the Shooters and Fishers Party and the government to ensure passage of its electricity privatisation bill.

    The decision, announced by the Premier, Barry O'Farrell, this morning, represents a significant backdown by the Premier, who has repeatedly ruled out allowing shooting in national parks.
    The government's electricity privatisation bill has been stalled in the NSW upper house because of a lack of support from Shooters and Fisher's Party MPs, who share the balance of power.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/premiers-park-...1ziik.html#poll

    Dear Premier, what were you thinking? Didn't your advisor's bring this 2010 story to your attention? -

    "A young woman on a camping holiday has been shot in the head and killed while brushing her teeth by a hunter who thought she was an animal."

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10682703

    Edit;
    Try this more recent story;
    The (hunter) had been on an overnight hunting trip with his son at a campsite in the Kaimai-Mamaku Forest Park on August 20 last year when he fired a crossbow bolt at a noisy possum. The metal arrow struck a tree just three metres from sleeping children.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/hunting/news/article.cfm?c_id=1500945&objectid=10808150
     
    #1 seak, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  2. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Lots of conflict potential in that decision. Philosophically I think hunting in NPs could be beneficial if appropriately managed. But that if is a very large one.
     
  3. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Just read about it @ SMH.
    Do politicians have an innate right to state a policy to win votes, then renege on it once their in office?
    Looks like fluoro flak jackets with cow bell accessories will be the new OZ BC fashion as opposed to avalungs, airbags and beacons.
    Edit, let professional trappers in but leave the amateurs out of NP's.
     
  4. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    While I don't really support the decision, what part of not having a majority is so hard to understand. Minority governments and governments who don't control upper houses always have to bend some of their preferred policies to get support of their partners. That's the way our system of government works. Sometimes it works well (eg much of what the Democrats did) and sometimes it works less well.
     
  5. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    wait till you read about the horsies getting access tio wilderness
     
  6. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Hunters and campers mix well in these parts. There are never any issues. Hunters know not to shoot near camp grounds. The guy in the report above was a f***wit (well, he was a kiwi, afterall).
     
  7. benchives

    benchives I forgot how to ski Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    let the electricity privatisation bill pass then after that is all hunky dory and sold repeal the hunters in NP bill - I would love to see that.,
     
  8. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    there have been times up near far bald hill i would have welcomed having a rifle with me. when you hear the packs of wild dogs howling.

    also a few ks north of jenolan up the valley, the pigs are getting very big there. also around bindook. in fact about half the southern part of blue mountains national park has a feral pig problem.
     
  9. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I don't camp in camp grounds.

    I reckon we have some f***wits here too, just quietly.

    Will be interested to see the list of where, when, who and how.
     
    #9 climberman, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  10. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Then there's the story an old timer from Khancoban told us at Wheelers a few years back of this redneck who was dumping sows in KNP with their ears cut off so dogs couldn't pull them down so could continue to breed for target practice!
    Conversely NPWS had heaps of signs around Happy Jacks Plain 2 weeks ago re 1080 baits and soft jaw traps being set. Heaps of wild dog hairy scats and footprints and evidence of pig damage there.
     
  11. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    are you serious?
     
    #11 Shrek, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  12. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Like the guy near Royal who ignited a whole round of outcry about Parks' culling..... who has previously been charged with hunting (or something) in a NP (Royal, for deer, with a bow and arrow).
     
  13. timonearth

    timonearth Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Wow..... sounds like Barry and Ted Baillieu would get along well.

    Hunting should only be done by professionals for the eradication of introduced species. Obviously there are exceptions but most of the hunters I've seen are backward hicks that take an unhealthy pleasure in killing and drinking. Recreational hunters in NP is a terrible idea.
     
  14. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Agreed there are exceptions. But I too have noticed that hunting as a challenging craft is lost on a lot of participants. It is more of a harvest, with booze, where kill rate is paramount. Applies to fishing as much as rifle hunting - in fact the harvest analogy applies to fishing even more so. At the risk of backlash - I have found this to be quite an Australian habit. A lot of North American hunters (and fisherman) are keenly committed to the ethic of their craft.

    I'd like to hunt, but can not where I live. Given the chance, I'd like the right to hunt in a NP. But doubt that I would actually do so knowing that it is a recreational area for everyone, including families trying to enjoy the outdoors a little more than an annual beach holiday up the coast.
     
    #14 damian, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  15. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    i love spear fishing. a much better way of fishing than dragging in everything stupid enough to bite your hook. I only shoot what i am going to eat.
     
  16. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I used to think that, but I get a lot of hunters in my shop. They need a lot of the same gear as bushwalkers. I now even stock camo gear. There are some who are as you describe, but most of them aren't. The good ones will only take a couple of deer a year - enough for their own consumption. They will observe their chosen deer for weeks before shooting him. They rig up cameras in trees to find out his habits. Then they go in and take him. (samba deer in these parts)
     
    #16 teckel, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  17. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    is it true they use fluro bright camo gear because deer are colour blind?
     
  18. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I've known many keen hunters in my time and have been deer hunting myself in the Wonnangatta. Most of them have been extremely responsible when it comes to gun handling and safety. Most though have had views on conservation and the environment that I believe are diametrically opposed to the responsible management of National Parks.
    I think I've made this point before that I believe there are two very different, opposing views of NP management and we see them on this forum quite often.
    There's the greeny types who believe NP's are there for conservation and protection of the environment. They range from nutters who'd like to lock them all up from any recreational or commercial use to those quite happy with multi uses for NP's as long as the core principles of conservation are maintained as much as possible.
    Then there are those for whom NP's are all about the human element. It's history, culture and exploitation. Words like conservation are dirty words to them. They love huts and would love to see many more of them. They're all about access to parks, hating any restrictions. They support cattle grazing in the high country and they support logging. They support expansion of ski resorts. They support increased facilities and access for all. Basically anything that involves human activities and exploitation of NP's, they're all for it. Because for them NP's are not about conservation of the environment, they're about recreation and exploitation. They're almost always very conservative politically and hate current parks management. In my experience most hunters fall into this group. They have little respect for the environment and conservation as a concept is alien to them. They only care about access so they can carry out their recreational pursuits. Although I'm not so worried about them being irresponsible with their guns I don't believe they'll have any respect for the conservation values of NP's.
     
  19. timonearth

    timonearth Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    ^ Extremely well said and couldn't agree more.
     
  20. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Orange. Deer are blind to bright orange - they see it as an olive green - ie: bush colour. Hence, many deer hunter wear orange camo - very visible to people, but not to deer.
     
    #20 teckel, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  21. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Not many support all 3 at once.
     
    #21 Shrek, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  22. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    A couple on this forum do [​IMG]
     
    #22 Go Native, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  23. sara777

    sara777 A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I agree with that fully. I really dislike hunting for any other purposes than mentioned above. I am all for controlled human element when it comes to camping, logging etc., just not hunting.
     
    #23 sara777, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  24. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    That's silly. Pros could never do it all. I don't think you understand the extent of the problem.
     
  25. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    i half support this with one big proviso..they are trained and their field behaviour is held accountable to their level of training. i've heard surprisingly good things about what the game council are doing with training from an ex NPWS person no less... Vertebrate pest management is in dire need of more resources, folk with good skills who can carry out a humane kill. A good shot is about as a humane a dispatch as you can get. i'll be especially supportive of this move if i see they target the big animals first...
    1) Brumbies
    2) Deer
    3) pigs

    goats are better trapped.

    now to the other great advance in conservation and protection of wilderness and world heritage values -robyn parker presents wilderness horse trekking!!
    http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resources/protectedareas/120335drhrstrat.pdf
     
    #25 Majikthise, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  26. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    heard of a guy that use to go goat hunting with a .58 calibre muzzle loading musket. he got them ok.
    but he was only after billys for the horns. not trying to eradicate them.
     
  27. sara777

    sara777 A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    You are right, I don't really.
     
    #27 sara777, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  28. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    before mixo my dad, and almost everyone, shot rabbits with a .22. didn't make a dent in the rabbit population.

    never seen deer, but brumbies and pigs a a real serious problem. and wild dogs.
     
  29. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    wild dogs are tricky .. huge problem but needs some dingo wisdom.

    Deer are skittish unless you encounter them when breeding, pigs are dangerous with a capital D and brumbies aren't to be messed with either, no matter how big their eyes are.
     
  30. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Older deer are very smart and elusive.
     
  31. Whiteman

    Whiteman A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Foxes are also now back as a real problem.

    In the last 12 months, the number of dead foxes on the side of the road has increased dramatically....because rabbits are back.

    We arrived at our shed early a few weeks back and there was a big fox with a huge tail just sitting right opposite. I want my rifle back!!! A nice fox fur jacket just waiting there to be had. [​IMG]
     
    #31 Whiteman, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  32. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    There's a bounty on fox scalps in Vic at the moment.
    I should shoot the ones who tease my dogs every night.
     
  33. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    this ^^
     
    #33 Shrek, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  34. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    deer are getting more common on the roads around here. nothing like coming around a corner to find a samba in the middle of the road. there are fallow around too.

    Ii think somewhere else the state a motorcyclist was killed last weekend hitting a deer

    I've got no problem with responsible hunting for meat and vermin control - no time for redneck blasting at anything that moves
     
  35. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Feral animals are a problem in NP's, no question.
    Do you open NP's to amateurs to solve the problem or put funding into professional resources?
    Here in the upper Blue Mtns there has been a wild dog problem in the Grose Valley with dogs attacking pet dogs in properties adjoining the NP.
    NSW NPWS and Blue Mtns City Council, engaged a professional dog trapper who has apparently, based on zero attack rates now, eradicated the problem.
    He was an interesting chap, who was a bit malodorous, cos he slept with his dog and didn't bath so the wild dogs wouldn't smell him.
    His dog was trained to search out the ferals territory and track their movements.
    He would mark their trail with dog urine to lead them into funnel traps, where they would be held and euthanased.
    On the other hand, I deal with pig dogs and their owners through vet work.
    I was naively astounded, after 25 years of work to discover a few years ago that "pig hunters" use their dogs to bring down the pigs, then they jump on the poor animals and kill them by stabbing them with hunting knives, (I thought the dogs flushed out the pigs and they were shot- doh)
    To me this is just butchery for self wanking.
    Are these the sort of people we want in NP's or indeed in society in general.
    There are regulations for professional shooters, which stipulate how clean kills must occur ---- hmmmm ---- at work we've got quite a few +++ in an ongoing case of roo skull x-rays + body x-rays and battered bodies to refute the accuracy + compliance of said professionals ( --- can't comment further ----) so letting loose amateurs is IMO foolhardy, cos they are in reality not interested in feral eradication but in adrenalin driven anus wiping egotistic self flagellation --- sorry end rant.
    I and +1 who is sooo mad about this do not want to hear rifle fire when we are here.
    [​IMG]
    KNP is now one of the approved NPs for recreational shooters!
     
    #35 Untele-whippet, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  36. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Curra has it [​IMG]
     
    #36 teckel, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  37. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    #37 Untele-whippet, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  38. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    The article is clearly skewed to get a no vote. Further, I bet that lots voting have never set foot in a NP, or recognise the extent of the feral animal population.
     
  39. tbnext

    tbnext One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Amateur shooters will do nothing to control feral animals. Professional planned shooting may work as a control measure but a bunch of dudes turning up on weekends to build a beer pyramid and hit the same secret spot every 6 weeks will have no effect on feral animal eradication. Anyone that thinks it will is deluded.
     
  40. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    This thread is full of ingorant gross generalisations by people who know no better, yet profess to be experts. This is like saying that all skiers are rich and toffee-nosed or that all tradies are unintelligent.
     
    #40 teckel, May 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  41. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Why would amateur hunters want to eradicate feral animals, doing that would only mean the end of their "sport". You can guarantee that they will only take out the trophy animals (big males) and leave all the females and young which means that there will always be a population. To control a feral population need to be ruthless and business like, everything goes (male, female, young). Professional shooters, combined with other things such as mustering, can control ferals. Seen it done in Kakadu with Water Buffalo and it worked. Can't see what is proposed in NSW NPs working.... not in the hunters' interest to make it work.
     
  42. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    This has nothing to do with eradicating feral animals. Hunters just want more access to land where there are animals they can shoot. Eradicating feral animals by recreational hunters is about as laughable as reducing fire risk by allowing cattle to graze in the high country. It's politics pure and simple and as usual the environment will bear the cost.
     
  43. tbnext

    tbnext One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Yep
     
  44. timonearth

    timonearth Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Yep, feral animal problem is massive, saw a huge stag on the way to Island Bend just the other week. This is just about buying votes, same as cattle grazing. Anyone with a little objectivity and wisdom can see the distinction. Really nice to see that many people on this forum 'get it' and can get their point across so clearly. I should have know you'd all be hanging out in the back country area. [​IMG]
     
    #44 timonearth, May 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  45. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    What if they start taking trophies?

    "Yeah thats just ya common snowboader, nice dreads on that one. This one was harder, ya ATer, gotta try and hit em on the up, they can get away if you let em get on a downslope. And this one is the elusive telemarker, took me weeks to track that slippery bastard down, it was the granola trail that finally led me to him, a big strong buck too, reckon he was at least 25 seasons old".
     
  46. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    They don't need to buy votes, bobly.
     
  47. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Who cares if they take out the boarders? [​IMG]
     
    #47 teckel, May 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  48. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I hear you [not that it counts]

    Mature hunters who do it for the art of hunting have no interest in mass culling of feral animals. That type of killing attracts the beer pyramid type.

    On the other hand, how does brumby taste?
     
    #48 damian, May 31, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  49. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Deer are already in the NPs and causing damage. Deer don't know the diff between state forests and NPs. Funny about that!
    So we should cull the brumbies, but leave the deer alone?
     
  50. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    That's not what it's about, is it? It's all about bogans (as you perceive them) being on your patch.