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NSW National parks- increased access to hunters and horseriders

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by seak, May 30, 2012.

  1. Majikthise

    Majikthise Sage Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: hunting to be expanded in NSW NPs

    and all because they've got big eyes... [​IMG]
     
    #151 Majikthise, Jun 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  2. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    meh, I was just thinking. allow hunting in national parks with certain restrictions. a NPWS observer goes along at all times. all shot animals must be removed from the park.

    hunting fee to be paid. $5000 for a deer, $2000 for a pig.
     
  3. Burgo

    Burgo Hard Yards

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    Re: hunting to be expanded in NSW NPs

    With "conservation hunting" in State Forests the NSW government started with 31 "declared" forests in 2006, with a 5 year review period, and added 66 last year. They then added 45 more last month and put a ten year review period on the lot.

    So it's now a total of 142 NSW State Forests declared for hunting until at least 2021. It would be no surprise to see a similar expansion with hunting in National Parks.
     
  4. HazBeen

    HazBeen First Runs

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    Re: hunting to be expanded in NSW NPs

    In the past couple of years near where I live two young people have shot dead their friends that they were hunting with. They were so dumb they couldn't tell the difference between their own mate and a deer - and they already knew their mate was in the bush near them. It will take a couple of people to be shot dead and then this issue will change dramatically and become a media headline that will place unbelievable pressure on the gov't and shooters party.

    * deleted *
     
  5. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    IMO this debate is a real city vs country thing just like the environment. City people don't know anyone who hunts so they automatically assume all hunters have three heads and want to shoot anything that moves.

    Just like city people never get to see open space so they are hell bent on protecting the open spaces that they know. They perceive that there is little of it because they are stuck in the confinds of a big city and generally go on holidays in the populated coastal strip.

    There is a risk of an accidental shooting. There is also a risk of a skier being buried by an avalanche triggered by another skiing. Both events have a low risk of ocurring so we shouldn't use either risk as an arguement against either pass time.
     
  6. HazBeen

    HazBeen First Runs

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Well Snow Blowey, I live in the country so your comment re city v country doesn't apply to me. And as for the risk of an avalanche triggered by another skier killing another skier compared to a hunter killing another person what actual figures do you have? I have never been worried in 30 years of backcountry skiing of being killed by an avalanche triggered by another skier. On the other hand I know for a fact that hunters shoot people by accident regularly. And I am now worried that I will get shot by some clueless idiot.
     
  7. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Hey SB, I think its really more about 150,741 NSW S & F voters being brown tongued by the NSW Libs with 1,943,246 votes to get their power sale through so there is some $ in the state coffers.
    The 1,943,246 voters were under the impression that hunting wouldn't be permitted in NP's --- so maybe it's also about politicians breaking promises to about 2 M people to appease 150 K people!(why isn't Tony Abbott rampaging?)
    Hoping the green ogre doesn't find that too political --
     
  8. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Hunters shooting other hunters wouldn't be such a bad thing........ Not sure of how regularly it happens though. Does Donald Rumsfeld intend hunting here?
     
  9. Go Native

    Go Native One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I live in the country as well. I've done a lot of hunting over the years and some of my best friends have been avid hunters. They all took gun safety extremely seriously and for me this isn't about safety. I am just totally opposed to recreational hunting in national parks. This isn't a city v country issue as far as I'm concerned. Plenty of country folk will not be happy about this policy. For me it's about how we manage and value our national parks. This isn't good management as far as I'm concerned and I'd think the majority of Australian's would agree. This decision is not about sound management of our NP's, it's about political expediency. It's wrong. Just as wrong as the Vic experiment with reintroducing cattle into the high country.
     
    #159 Go Native, Jun 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  10. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    That is an argument against hunting, not against hunting in national parks. It can happen anywhere that hunters go to - national park or state forest. It would place no pressure on the policy for that reason.
     
    #160 teckel, Jun 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  11. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    You could use the same arguement agaist the "Carbon Tax" and any other policies the greens have been pushing at a federal level. It's how our system works. Instead of blaming the S&F party, blame the ALP for not supporting the sell off.
     
    #161 Snow Blowey, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  12. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Then lets rip up all the roads, and ski resorts as well. They are not good for the national park. Why are you pro-skiing and other forms recreation but against hunting. Seems like a biased or inconsistent view IMO.
     
    #162 Snow Blowey, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  13. K10

    K10 Hard Yards

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    I think its a case of us "city dwellers" being used to the govt regulating what you can and cant do in public places.

    When I were a lad, we used to take our air riffles and Bowie knives on the train - in suburbia - and no one said anything.
    We would build cubby houses in the bush, cut down trees, make bike tracks, and damn creeks etc etc. We also used to ride mini-bikes up the street and blow up letter boxes with home made cracker bombs and all sorts of shit that you'd be locked up for now days

    In the 21st century pull up at a NP/SF wearing cammo (or a raised up 4WD) and expect some frightened looks on the faces of your weekend nature lovers.
    In fact pull up with mountain bikes on your car and people look at you like you are a paedophile.

    I suppose in the country you can still do what you want, burn your farm rubbish, cut down trees, blow things up, shoot guns etc etc since no ones around to get hurt or report it to the cops for that matter.

    It must be unfathomable for your above-mentioned-weekend-nature-lovering city-dewllers, how the govt in this day an age, after all the gun control, prevention of gun use and restricted ownership, and societies changed perception about guns in general, could allow it to happen.

    Sounds a bit dodgy to me but will it affect me...probably not

    However if I pull up at a NP/SF car park and there IS a guy with a 4wd and he's wearing cammo and has a dog in a cage on the back I WOULD think twice about taking my family for a walk there just in case.
     
  14. chokenchickin

    chokenchickin One of Us

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    A couple of years ago I was riding my motorbike back from Camp Creek Gap at Bogong and came across a bloke parked on the side of the track. He had a empty box with a target on it which he placed in the middle of the road on a corner. Any shot he fired would have continued past/through the target to travel across a shallow valley to where the road was futher on. I have been trying to keep an open mind to this proposal. As long as they don't shoot me, and bring their empty beer cans home, then I don't mind. They can leave the full cans. I might start wearing brighter clothing in the bush now though.
     
  15. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    There are as many fools in the bushwalking camp as in that of the hunters.

    Burning down huts with shellite,getting lost and requiring search and rescue operations. I think we have many problems in our own camp.

    I have seen some friendly and responsible hunters while up near Camp Mulhe and approaches and also at Camp Stoneytops.

    Deer are increasing in nos :well i see so many of them driving Omeo Highway compared to earlier times.I nearly run into them some times.

    Pretty soon deer will be doing ascents of Mt Feathertop if all the footprints at Camp Stoney are an indication of their nos.So hunters do have a role to play in management of backcountry.

    I feel that stringent provisions need to be placed on the standard of hunters.I do find it confrontational when i wake up to a "hello" and spie a camoflaged deer hunter with high powered rifle on his shoulder in the mist just outside my tent.But some dudes are very good with weapons training and though i may be a bit fearful of getting shot in the a*** i am in more danger driving along the main highway near Bright.
    Maybe restrict hunters in National Parks to make sure only the best trained/experienced are allowed to carry firearms.
     
  16. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I think this is an important reflection.

    Bears and i would probably starve to death without our produce sourced from the S.Market.
     
  17. Angus_McCrory

    Angus_McCrory Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Nice observation K10, pretty much like my childhood, living on the edge of suburbia but surrounded by National and State Parks.
     
  18. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Note from Admin.

    I know this is a political issue and it is hard to keep politics out of this discussion but lets try and keep it to an absolute minimum.

    Basically once the thread degenerates down party lines it will just be locked or turfed to Bear Pit where it will just turn into another ugly muddy brawl.

    If you wish this discussion to continue then completely minimise political comment rather discuss the merits of the said bill.

    If the vast majority keep posting this way the odd overtly political post will continue to be removed rather than locking it. If the majority of posts end up political then it will just go.
     
  19. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I thought you may something about my earlier post. Worth noting my point was to look at things objectively, not through party political eyes. I was highlighting that all sides of politics have self interest in mind only and will do deals to push their agenda. Suggesting this is exclusive to one side of politics is wrong. Approaching things objectively one cannot bring themself to support any existing political party and i am certainly not putting my support behind any party.
     
    #169 Snow Blowey, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  20. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Re: Onya Barry

    All I am saying is that every thread that has turned political on these forums degrads to a mud throwing contest.

    If that happens here it will be shut or moved to the mud bath where it will spiral to an even lower point.

    Now back on the topic of hunting in national parks.
     
  21. seak

    seak One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    On the topic of hunting in National Parks; did you know that hunting in National Parks is to be allowed under an agreement with the NSW State Government with the Shooters and Fishers Party (NSW) so as to get agreement by majority on the selling off of Electricity Generators in New South Wales so as to raise three-billion dollars for vital infrastructure yet to be built such as Sydney's North-West railway.

    Not a political comment, innit? - just a statement of fact on how we got to have this decision and hence debate.
     
  22. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    According to the letters page in SMH, 10 deaths and 81 injuries assoc with hunting in NP's in NZ in past 10 years.
    A sad & alarming fact if true.
     
  23. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    didn't somebody go missing in victoria with the talk being they were mistaken for a deer?
     
  24. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Was an incident near Warburton a few years ago; http://www.starnewsgroup.com.au/mail/mountain-views/189/story/73121.html

    But regarding the hunting in NP, my first thought was 'they have got to be kidding'.
    But the more I think about it, maybe it's not a bad idea if done for the right reasons, (feral/pest animal reduction I presume? [​IMG]) and somehow managed without risk to ordinary park users .
    No idea how to determine a good hunter from a reckless-beer-guzzling-shoot-at-anything type though.

    Anyone found Goretex shells with full flak protection?
     
    #174 GS, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  25. Burgo

    Burgo Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    You would hope the thirteen to seventeen year old hunters who have been issued a licence by the NSW Game Council for hunting in State Forests are abiding by the law and not beer guzzling.
    Then again, they are allowed out there unsupervised so it's on the cards.

    And there looks to be little evidence that recreational hunting has any significant impact on reducing feral animal populations in public reserves.
     
  26. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Burgo, you're full of shite. You made that up to scare people. You have succeeded in destroying any credibility you had.
    Maybe you should refer to the act before spouting off:

    Minors cannot hold a licence, only a permit, and can only use a rifle under the supervision of a licence holder
     
    #176 teckel, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2013
  27. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Be aware this discussion is about hunting in NSW national parks under NSW gun laws. If people are going to quote legislation they had better make sure they are talking about NSW or identify what state they are talking about.
     
  28. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    #178 teckel, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  29. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    It was not pointing at you, it was a general reminder.
     
  30. Burgo

    Burgo Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Teckel, you will note I did not specifically refer to the use of firearms. The Game Concil in NSW issue licences for hunting in State Forests by firearms, but also bow huntng and hunting with dogs & knives. You are correct that you need to be 18 to own a firearm. No such restriction on bows or dogs & knives.

    If you go to the Game Council site here and scroll down you will clearly see they will issue an "R licence" if you are over 12 years old. I can only assume this is for bow hunting or hunting with dogs. It may be the case that the NSW Government will only allow hunting with firearms in National Parks and not bows or dogs. This is not yet clear(or at least I have no seen any clarification on this).

    The risk assessment on hunting in forests done by Forests NSW in 2009 identified being hit by "a projectile" and attack by dogs in the top three risks to forest users, so gun shot is clearly not the only risk.

    Regardless of your opinion on "conservation hunting" I don't think many would agree that minors hunting by any means in public reserves is a good idea.
     
    #180 Burgo, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  31. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    As dogs aren't allowed in national parks, you can forget that one.
    And seeing you're looking at the Game Council website, I'm surprised you didn't find this:

    http://www.gamecouncil.nsw.gov.au/portal.asp?p=Licence-Regulations#Minors

    So,how can they be out there unsupervised?
     
    #181 teckel, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2013
  32. Burgo

    Burgo Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    So Teckel we were both not well informed. You can be under 18 years old and use a firearm but need to be "accompanied" by an adult. I still find the idea of minors hunting in public reserves very scary.

    I actually agree with your earlier posts that the vast majority of hunters are responsible and take it all very seriously. However, there are real and identified risks with mixing hunting with recreational use of public reserves which I think the broader community finds totally unnaceptable. Even the thought of hearing gunfire while in a Park would be enough to frighten the crap out of the most Park visitors. And if you are in the "backcountry" (and wouldn't that be likely given you are on this forum?) you'd be even more concerned.

    As for "dogs aren't allowed in national parks, you can forget that one" - everyone thought guns would never be allowed until last week, so don't jump to any conclusions.

    And if you can find any credible evidence that "conservation hunting" has any long lasting, significant impact on eliminating invasive species from public reserves I would be interested to see it.
     
  33. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    How was I not well informed? I didn't make outrageous statements about which I knew nothing.
    I find the idea of a 16 year old behind the wheel of a powerful car while under supervision in a densely poopulated area much scarier than the idea of a supervised kid hunting deer in a relatively deserted area.


    City people are terrified of guns because they're protected from even havingto see them. Guns don't kill. People do. FFS, I hear gunfire every Saturday night quite close by as the farmer on the adjoining property shoots foxes on Saturday's nights. Doesn't frighten the crap out of me.
    Anyway, there's no difference to the risk of being shot when you go into state forests, as there will be in the designated areas of national parks. As such, this argument is a red herring.
    I have never said anything about eliminating feral pests, so you can stop repeating that to me.
     
  34. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Sorry about the editing ---- but [​IMG]
     
    #184 Untele-whippet, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  35. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    [​IMG]
     
    #185 Telemark Phat, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  36. Shrek

    Shrek Old n' Crusty

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    Re: Onya Barry

    2 of those are not revolvers. it is not a game if the probability is 1.
     
  37. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I don't see what you're getting at. Cars don't kill. It's the people controlling them that kill. Same with guns.
     
    #187 teckel, Jun 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  38. tbnext

    tbnext One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Wow come back after a few days and the usual suspects have hijacked the discussion. The primary point of national parks is to protect and preserve heritage values. They can then decide what recreational activities have minimal impact and what preservative skills they take to achieve heritage.

    I'd still love someone to tell me how a bunch of amateurs with fully sick sportiest weapons, awesome ground clearance and cool spotties do to minimise impact with other users as well as not being a clear and present danger to low or medium impact other users.

    As an rfs member we regularly inspect national park trails with no notice. I'm a bit wary of doing that when there are armed dudes in scent free undies hiding in trees.
     
  39. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Once you pull the trigger the bullet has no brakes, seat belts or air bags and it goes a looong way.
     
  40. tbnext

    tbnext One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Exactly, national parks and recreational shooting makes no sense. Honest we should be rioting in the streets, but as usual useless accepting and bored Aussies we can't be bothered. Biggest thing that pisses me off about Aussies, to relaxed and comfortable to give a rats about anything.
     
  41. Burgo

    Burgo Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Sorry Teckel, I must have misinterpreted your earlier posts. ie.
    “I've got no problem with responsible hunting for meat and vermin controlâ€
    “Pros could never do it all. I don't think you understand the extent of the problemâ€
    “Further, I bet that lots voting have never set foot in a NP, or recognise the extent of the feral animal population.â€
    “Deer are already in the NPs and causing damageâ€
     
    #191 Burgo, Jun 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  42. tbnext

    tbnext One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Owned
     
  43. teckel

    teckel Not a Loser Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    Do you understand the difference between elimination and control of numbers?
     
    #193 teckel, Jun 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  44. tbnext

    tbnext One of Us

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    Re: Onya Barry

    I do, want to tell me how anything but a planned, targeted and result checked control program is worth talking about. You buddies have been popping pigs, rabbits and even cane toads. How's that going?
     
  45. DagdaMor

    DagdaMor Hard Yards

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    Re: Onya Barry

    * DELETED *
     
  46. rocketboy

    rocketboy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Onya Barry

    * DELETED *
     
  47. crackson

    crackson Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    There are some real big 'dogs' living up here.

    They need to be taken out.

    Real big.
     
  48. rocketboy

    rocketboy One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Gerroa
    Open up the main range with lifts for winter and bike paths for summer - but keep the guns out.
     
  49. seak

    seak One of Us

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
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    Location:
    Blue Mts
    Re: Onya Barry

    Relax everybody.
    We have another three months of jogging through Lane Cove and MTB tricks on Vaucluse cliffs.



     
  50. Boodwah

    Boodwah A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
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    Location:
    StKilda,VicBC,Prom,France
    Re: Onya Barry

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vallejo_Gantner_Hut

    People with guns definitely sometimes kill other people, including themselves. Most deaths are accidental. There are many places to go outside of a NP if you want to shoot. I have a gun license and a gun. But I don't think that the average person pursuing his or her goals in a NP should be exposed to the risk of accidental death, no matter how small. There are risks enough. I have reasonable intelligence, and this just seems like a no-brainer to me.
     
    #200 Boodwah, Feb 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013