NTN - 22 designs and other options

Telezacski

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I am interested to know if anyone has skied the 22 designs offering in the ntn system? I have the option to upgrade this year, the 22 designs appears to be the cheapest of the binding options and I like the fact that it is metal.

My plan is to use these as a resort only ski so I'm not to phased by the weight diferential between the bindings.

Also interested to know if shifting to ntn changes the ski you would select. A few years ago i grabed a set of Hart One skis, super fat and fun to ski but I struggled to get them on the edge (137-97-122). Last year I picked up a set of blackdiamond havoc second hand (very cheap) which are 120-88-112.

I am super impressed with the black diamond as I can really throw them around and get edge to edge very quickly on them. My plan is to keep these for side country, sell the harts and get something new.

With this in mind would people who ski the NTN go with a ski the same width or does the NTN system allow you to go a little wider and still get edge to edge?

Thanks in advance.
 

Telemark Phat

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I haven't skied on the Outlaws, but I've spoken about them with a 22Designs sponsored skier. They have about the same lateral precision as the Freeride but have a more 75mm feel (The freeride is a more technically demanding binding. The people I know who loved it straight off the bat had better technique than those who hated it). The Freedom feels like 75mm and has about the same lateral precision. The TTS offerings (Moonlight, Olympus) and the Meijdo have great lateral response and very different feels to other bindings. The fiddle factor, poor breaks and durability (they are made to be light weight) means I wouldn't put them on a resort ski.

You'll have a lot more edge power with the Freeride and the Outlaw than you're used to with 75mm bindings. The width of the ski is a bigger determinant of how quickly the ski can get onto edge than how rigid the bindings are laterally.

Need more info for ski recommendations.
 
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Telezacski

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Ability, i'm awesome! :D

Seriously i'm not really sure how to judge ability, I can pretty well tele anywhere at Thredbo albeit I havn't skied golf course bowl simply because the opportunity hasn't come up. If I was to get a lesson tomorrow i'd probably ask them to work on my carving, so maybe advanced intermediate (??).

These will be on Piste ski's, as I said I am happy to keep the black diamond's for the odd side country trip I might do.

At this stage I haven't skied anywhere else in the world, Japan and the U.S are on the horizon in the next fews years but neither are guaranteed. If I was to ski there i'd probably take my boots and hire skis there as I will be travelling with Kids and skiing won't be the only activity on the trip, read i'm not keen to kart skis on a three week Japan trip when only skiing one week. So think Aussie resorts.
 

Telemark Phat

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50 / 50 in Oz I'd stick with the 80 - 90mm underfoot range with early rise in the tip only and camber through the rest of the ski.

If you're keen on carving 65mm to 75mm with some metal in the construction is ideal, but hard to find without hostage plates.
 

telecrag

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Love my freerides, didnt mind the freedoms for touring, but very different feel. Wonder how I would like the 22D ones, I can still swap back to 75mm, takes about half an hour to adapt. I really notice the lack of power however. Which makes me wonder if I would like the 22D's?

As Tphat says, many people I know who had a go on freerides, ended up liking the freedoms more, and then graduated eventually.
 

Telemark Phat

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One issue to consider with the outlaw is the breaks only come in 110 and 125mm widths if your considering a narrower ski. Not having to mess around with leashes is a big binding choice consideration for me.
 
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Snow Blowey

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And I pinched whippets spare 95mm brake. Had to suck him off for it though so wouldn't say it was free.
 
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telecrag

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Spam alert!

You should get the freerides and do this course .

Come on @telecrag help me sell it!

OK, lets have a go!

Do it!!!! Great value, and exceptional for your learning! The guy that takes it is a bit of a dick and cant ski for shit! Ahhhahaha!

Actually he knows his shit, and is an excellent skier, and more importantly, one really fun skier. I would ski with him anytime.
 

Telezacski

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Ok so much to digest. So lateral precision I assume means edge control?

I guess I like the idea of the ntn due to ease of access, skiing with the kids (and this will only get worse) means I am in and out of the bindings all the time, brakes are a bonus. i'm not 100% sure i'd notice the difference between the edge control on the Freedom, Free Ride or Outlaws.
 

telecrag

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Step one, buy some boots. Step two, hire some skis off Bruce, he has both freerides and freedoms. If you like freerides, do it. If you like the feel of the freedoms better, invest in the 22d ones, and let me have a go!
 
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skifree

A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe
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But he does stock it for sale and hire. Word is the hire / demo fleet will grow a little this year.
 

Telezacski

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Has anyone purchased from rhythm snow sports cooma? They seem to be building a decent range of tele gear and have all the options for sale.
 

telecrag

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Rolfe is good, I have bought a few things there. Ive known Bruce longer, so tend to support him, not that he would make much from sales, hire is where its at. He has a different sense of humour, sometimes people think he is serious when he is not. Also he has been in the business for a long long time, so you tend to get a bit funny when people keep asking the same thing over and over. I know he does a lot in the local community, and I have seen him really help some people out with gear and advice.
 

Hully

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I think that the main impact in the market of the Outlaw is that it will be a signigicant catalyst for Hammerhead/22 Designs devotees to move over to NTN. Interestingly Scarpa have stopped putting tech fittings in their NTN tele boots going forward.
 

Telezacski

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Thanks again tw that link was interesting.

One thing a few of them seem to push is the idea of "inserts" so you can switch the bindings between skis. Does anyone here use these? Is it as simple as made out to be?
 

Hully

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Thanks again tw that link was interesting.

One thing a few of them seem to push is the idea of "inserts" so you can switch the bindings between skis. Does anyone here use these? Is it as simple as made out to be?
NTN skier says "inserts....what is this thing you talk of?" With the Freeride it is as simple as 2nd ski kit, then 3rd, 4th.
Back in the day of K2 having a dedicated telemark range they came with inserts....easy mount and binding change. Think that the motivation was to prevent screw pull out on the lighter construction skis at a time when boots were rapidly becoming more powerful and people were skiing harder and steeper on tele gear.
 

telecrag

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I used to have a few pairs of K2 skis with inserts (so easy even a snowboarder can use them, actually snowboards started it?). Pretty easy to swap. With Freerides I have a few plates, so can swap them between skis by undoing 2 screws.
 
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Telemark Phat

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I think that the main impact in the market of the Outlaw is that it will be a signigicant catalyst for Hammerhead/22 Designs devotees to move over to NTN. Interestingly Scarpa have stopped putting tech fittings in their NTN tele boots going forward.
The Tx and the Tx-Pro are keeping the tech fittings in the toe but not in the heel. The Comp is staying without tech fittings in the toe or the heel.

Having tech fittings in my Crispi Evo World Cups is great when travelling. I can manage with the one pair of boots but take both work skis and fun, light BC skis.
 

skifree

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I have used the quiver killer inserts across a dozen skis now with no issues other instal (read mine) errors.

And I have used K2 and Donek skis that came with inserts.

I can recommend them and they help out with ski packing for travel & storage.
 
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dossa5

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zac150 if youre up at Hotham we should hook up and swap skis. We can then work out if its the skis/binding or the spooky snow that stops us getting on edge.
 

Telezacski

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Thanks for all the advice, I picked up a set of scarpa comp from Bruce and I went with the free rides, as per the advice.

I picked up a second base plate so I can ski my wider skis on the one day of fresh snow a season I get.

For my everyday ride I went the volkl kendo.

Now for Huey to do his thing
 

Hully

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Thanks for all the advice, I picked up a set of scarpa comp from Bruce and I went with the free rides, as per the advice.

I picked up a second base plate so I can ski my wider skis on the one day of fresh snow a season I get.

For my everyday ride I went the volkl kendo.

Now for Huey to do his thing
Sweet kit....enjoy the ride.
 

Telezacski

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Tc I'll be up at Thredbo on the weekend then pretty much every second weekend there after.

I'm not up mid week until the start of August when I'm up at Thredbo sat - wed before heading back country for four days. I'll let you know when I'm up there.

Hoping this year will see me on top of Jagungal for the first time in winter.
 

telecrag

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I am free the first week, doing the L2 the second I think.

Jugsie, a worthy peak

View from
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Telezacski

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The decision will be light weight touring gear or do I go a little heavier and actually enjoy the turns off the hill.

Dumb question I want to enjoy the turns
 

Telezacski

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Pretty sure I've spotted a few of you guys on Thredbos slopes over the last couple of years.

I met a group of 5 guys last year and had a quick chat before they head to lunch. I'm sure one or two were forum members
 

Telezacski

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I'm guessing ski free you either have a sarcastic and great sense of humour or you ski Perisher ;)
 
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DagdaMor

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Saw someone on shiny Tx-Pros and Outlaws on Sat at Perisher, maroon jacket, pretty smooth operator from the couple of turns I saw. Wondered if it was a forum resident?

Shame if Scarpa are taking the heel tech inserts out of the Tx line, feels like a marketing decision to force you to buy a separate AT boot. SO and I enjoy one boot to rule most of them, and Tx-Pros and inserts mean I can swap between TTS and AT on one pair of skis with a handful of screws, which is nice.
 

Untele-whippet

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Saw someone on shiny Tx-Pros and Outlaws on Sat at Perisher, maroon jacket, pretty smooth operator from the couple of turns I saw. Wondered if it was a forum resident?

Shame if Scarpa are taking the heel tech inserts out of the Tx line, feels like a marketing decision to force you to buy a separate AT boot. SO and I enjoy one boot to rule most of them, and Tx-Pros and inserts mean I can swap between TTS and AT on one pair of skis with a handful of screws, which is nice.
It was a liability decision by Scarpa.
Someone apparently ejected from an AT tech toe and heel using a TX boot.
Crispi and Scott are making NTN with toe and heel inserts still.
 

Vanders

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Hi everyone,
If I may, I'd like to jump in on the '22 designs and other options' here for demo hire in Aus.
I'm aware there's a few places that can hire Rottefella freedom/freeride, and I hear that Bruce at wilderness sports is getting some 22 designs Outlaws soonish - which I hope to try one they're in.
Under the 'other options' category, is there any retailer who has the Meidjo for demo?
 

Telezacski

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Vanders, in terms of "demo" I can't help but I can tell you Rythem have all three in stock, so you can at least look at the three in one shop.

I'm not pushing Rythem as I don't think they have the same knowledge as other shops (well the guys that served me didn't). I had a great chat with Bruce about the NTN, he knows his stuff.

In terms of the outlaw check out the link to the us forum posted above by tele whippet. After reading the thread I felt the outlaw needs some work and whilst 22 designs have been great in terms of customer support (after sales) I wasn't so sure how this would extend to Australia.

I didn't look at the Mjeido as it was substantially more expensive than the
Rottefella.

I had my first day on the Freerides last weekend and i was pretty impressed. Easy to get in and out of and they skied similar to my cables but with a lot more edge control .
 

Telezacski

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Interesting read TW,

The crack shown in the article on the plate is the same issue that the many on forum you put me onto had.

I've now had 10 days on the freedoms and I must say I couldn't be happier; I was a little hesitant when buying and justifying the expense of shifting everything over to ntn but after 1 day I've not looked back and in fact I've wondered why I didn't do it earlier.

My only negative is both my mates and my bindings have lost a little of the paint job, just seems flaky, this is something I'll look at, at seasons end to make sure no damage is done.

Pro, great step in system I love rocking up to the slopes and drooping the skis stepping in and going, yep you have to push a level down but I'm happy with this.

Edge control, seriously amazing. I also said I could parallel on cable but not in the same way as I can on ntn. Yep I plan to tele but when the legs are shot it's great to be able to cruise along the trails.

I found the shift pretty quick and after two days was back in the grove.
 
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