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Question Off piste vs back country vs out of bounds - getting started

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Shoey, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

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    I feel like both aspects need to be presented in equal measure. You need to encourage people to get out there and give it a go, but at the same time ensure that they aren't going to bite off more than they can chew and become a statistic.
     
    Rick Ross Da Boss and LMB like this.
  2. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    One of the joys of age is getting better at knowing you don’t know shit, even about the stuff you know a lot about!
     
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  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    This guy wants to learn the right way from the off and is willing to pay for it.
    Different league.
     
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  4. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    We ‘certify’ ‘ski guides’ in Oz who can do a basic Stem Christie and a three week course.

    Im sure they are nice folks but knowing what an actual experienced person in Aust BC might be, and what these kids are being ‘certified’ and what an actual UIAGM guide is.... I’d hire some gear and go out on a nice sunny spring day from DHG and pack a nice lunch.
     
  5. skifree

    skifree Sort of old & definitely grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    This does not sound fun at all, stay inbounds.
     
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    95% of the shufflers out there wouldn't even know what a stem christie was.
    Anyway, he isn't you. Get over it.
     
    climberman likes this.
  7. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Reckon Ziggy is just trying to scare the OP away so the BC remains uncrowded ........
     
  8. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nah
    I reckon this thread has been very much like the kind of advice you’d get from a varied group sitting around at the pub answering this question over a beer.
    Quality mix
     
  9. Rick Ross Da Boss

    Rick Ross Da Boss One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I’ll have a pint of stem Christie thx :cheers:
     
  10. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I
    That Scottish instructor again.
     
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  11. Shoey

    Shoey Hard Yards

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    Thanks again all - a lot of different but informed perspectives out there. But collectively it paints a picture.

    We are off to NZ Mt Hutt in 2 wks time for 2 wks, based in Methven. Will look at an opportunity of some advanced lessons with a crossover emphasis on off-piste. We also heard the club fields like Craigieburn offers an off-piste-like taster experience and plan to visit a day or 2 there. We are certaintly not looking to go outside of the map into true BC just yet, but want to consider starting with exploring by venturing a bit outside the markers & cutting through trees etc (not that theres any in Mt Hutt). Heli is also an option but the money for 1 day of heli can buy a lot of adv lessons. I really like the suggestions for Aust courses i.e. the Hotham one, at the moment we have no further plans for this yr (except for a quick spring ski wknd in Sept). But definitely keeping them in mind.

    Insurance is definitely an area I am researching actively into right now. (I'm reading the related thread in Snow Talk). I wanted to go with my current (car) insurer due to a multi policy discount, but their snow pack specificially adds a T&C for off-piste (which they interpret BC to mean the same thing ), requiring an accompanying instructor whose a "Holder of Level 2 Backcountry security award and relevant equivalent". If we were to go into true BC there is no doubt I am going to hire a guide/instructor, but I am concerned this T&C is also so restrictive that a meter off the marker can be considered as a T&C violation.

    And how do the resorts view in-bounds off piste? Is it something they frown upon (I have read Shiga Kogen where we are going in Jan, bans it) or they say it is your own risk etc?

    Thanks - I am ordering this.

    Not much. I only recently returned to Australia from Britain where the outdoors is really one notch down in intensity.

    Thanks for this - it helps clear up this confusion. so the gates are still in-bounds? Would there be patrols for instance?
     
  12. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Also once you go heli...
    Yes it is addictive.



    There are quite a few of us who keep coming back to AAMI. Do the research each year, and every year end up with AAMI.

    No.
    No patrols.
    The signs up at the gates say this usually.

    They vary from place to place.

    Niseko United has the Niseko Rules which are more or less enforced.
    https://www.niseko.ne.jp/en/niseko/niseko-rules/

    Kiroro gates you need to lodge a formal intention for your hike and ski path beyond the gates, they are manned and you need to present your permission to go outside the boundary and be geared up.

    Backcountry in the Japanese Alps is generally much more high consequence than lower elevation Hokkaido. But each region and area within the region has their own peculiarities and dangers. From slide history to known terrain traps - the local experts are the ones to go to for the specific knowledge of an area.
     
    Shoey likes this.
  13. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cover-More Snow Sports + Cover insurance is good too.
     
    LMB likes this.
  14. Dave6

    Dave6 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Check these guys out if you are looking for some guiding/instruction in the NZ Clubbies.

    http://blackdiamondsafaris.co.nz/packages/single-day-packages/

    Craigieburn is a serious mountain. You might want to look into that before you go.
     
    Shoey likes this.
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Avoid QBE insurance, in everything. They're cheap for a reason.
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Repreived Ski Pass: Gold

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    Avoid unpatrolled slopes of 30-45 degrees, on or below them, until you're able to assess and deal with avy risk.
     
    Shoey likes this.
  17. Shoey

    Shoey Hard Yards

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    Thanks for the heads up. Based on my reading into Craigieburn so far, it seemed to fit the bill as exactly the entry-point into next-level we are looking for. We are comfortable with varied ungroomed terrain - steep/moguls/narrowing chutes/sheet ice etc. (Powder, not so much). The idea about going to Craigieburn is that it would be fairly wild country, try some powder if lucky, but still stay in-bounds - a way to push the envelope just that little bit without going all out.

    We were going to look at guides once we get to Methven but will give the blackdiamond guys a ping.

    EDIT: Just looked at the Max Package in detail - it is a really good deal! $295 for guiding, skipass, pickup (one of my fears was driving to Craigieburn unsealed roads) and lunch. Can't find that value in Australia?!
     
    Ziggy, Dave6 and LMB like this.
  18. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Craihieburn is an easy drive,provided they’ve graded the road after a heavy dump. The skiing there is awesome. Best is to stay there for a few days. They used to do sandwiches in the lift shed for lunch. A great experience.
     
    Shoey, johnski and climberman like this.
  19. johnski

    johnski Hard Yards Ski Pass: Gold

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    x2 for staying a couple of nights up at craigieburn, ski to the door no stuffing around driving down the hill, casual start in the morning, the road is fine if no fresh snow and even with snow it’s usually fine with chains (they clear it regularly with tractor) however black diamond do a go job with introducing first timers to the clubbies and making it easy.

    The alternative is that craigieburn has level 3/4 CDN qualified instructors up there that you can book cheap lessons with who can also show you around, get you going on the tows and into the terrain.
     
    Shoey likes this.