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Question Parking at JB Plain in winter.

Discussion in 'Hotham & Dinner Plain' started by Andy Ziggy, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    Going to Hotham for a few weeks and hoping to avoid the exorbitant parking costs. So I was thinking of leaving the car at JB Plain and riding my fat bike to my accommodation. Has anyone left their car there for a few days or longer and experienced any issues/agro from any authorities?
     
  2. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Why not the overnight carpark at Dinner Plain?
     
  3. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    If you mean the one near the bottom of the ski run, they don't allow overnight anymore unless you are staying in accom there and register your vehicle. If you know of another spot I'd be happy to hear of it.
     
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  4. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    If you mean the carpark at the bottom of the ski run, they only allow vehicles from people staying in Dinner Plain. The car has to be registered with some authority upon check in. If you know another overnight carpark I'd love to know.
     
  5. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    The airport? LOL
     
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  6. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    Too far. Will consider it as a last resort.
     
  7. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    if you do park outside the resort and walk/ride in make sure you wear a wristband that says "I dont need Ski Patrol, Village Transport, I am not allowed to poo or drink the water,or use any other village services" because I didnt pay resort entry, I am pretty sure they are available at most outlets!
     
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  8. RTL

    RTL Hard Yards

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    Parked there overnight before. Outside resort boundary. If there are no "No Parking" signs, then its free parking.

    Why not just park outside the resort boundary and ride in from there?

    Asks Parks Victoria or Vicroads if in doubt.
     
    #8 RTL, Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
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  9. jungfrau

    jungfrau One of Us

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    Interesting topic..
    I (by myself) drove up for a quick day trip last week..
    parked at the dam, didn't drink water (actually tried at the toilets on top of heavenly but drinking water was blocked) didn't use any "services" yet pay $50.
    I am considering parking outside boundary and opening my heals to get to the resor.
    It's very steep for one person!
    Ski patrol should be covered by my Ski pass.. imo
     
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  10. Seth

    Seth Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Long walk from outside the boundary though.
     
  11. jungfrau

    jungfrau One of Us

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    True! , there's also the bus from DP.. still cheaper for solo mission
     
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  12. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    Cheers, Will give it a try. Thanks for staying on topic.
     
  13. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    Agree. MHRMB just trying to gouge punters before the snow ends. Ive skied over 20 mountains in North American Rockies. No-one charges $50/day....... and you still have to park 5k away.
     
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  14. FlatLander

    FlatLander Addicted

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    Very true jungfrau and I understand your pain. Although the RMB's are legislated to provide those and other services, with the only model available is that there is a user pays system equally shared by all users. So current system is via a Resort Entry charge per car, on the basis that there is an average of 3.1 persons/vehicle. So in essence you are subsidizing the vehicle that brings in 6 people.

    Each of the Victorian resorts does it a little differently, at Buller Ski Patrol is run and paid for by Lift Co (I believe), at Hotham/Falls it is not. Would the lift co want to take it on most likely not, as it would add substantially to the cost of lift tickets.

    In NSW you pay a National Park entry fee of $29/day (and no one complains) which is used to provide some of the Village services and is also subsidized by the tax payer - although I believe NSW are reviewing this model.

    In Victoria the RMB's are essentially local shire councils, they are required to provide these services with in the Resorts, which are areas annexed out of the National Park and fall under a separate Act. And in Vic it is cost recovery.....not a money grab or profit making business.

    It doesnt matter where you go these services are paid for by you, whether it be a via a bed tax, or a resort tax on everything you use/buy in the resort, or via part of the lift ticket. Also depending which country you are in, this may also be subsidized by the general tax payer.

    Is there better systems and models, yes quite probably, although here you would all the stake holders to work together for the common good - best of luck with that one
     
  15. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Season pass should be one fee, all mountain access across vic.
    About $300.
    My only gripe.
     
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  16. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Does the community bus from Omeo to Bright and return operate in winter?
     
  17. kimberlee81

    kimberlee81 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Don't know about agro from the authorities, but three of us camped at JB Plain many years ago, and just as we were getting dinner organised, a car rolled down the hill without lights, stopped on the road and started shooting through the trees at us.

    But I'm sure you'll be fine.

    Probably.
     
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  18. Whiteman

    Whiteman A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    ^^^ Banjo music playing in the background perhaps???
     
  19. kimberlee81

    kimberlee81 One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Squeal piggy!
     
  20. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    So everyone, just as a follow up.... I did it in 2018, Parked and rode my fat bike up. Came back a few times to check on the car and was all sweet. Screw MHRMB and their exorbitant parking pass....... Shhh dont tell anyone my secret.
     
  21. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I snow camped at JB hut and XC skied the whole route from Dinner plain to Wire Plain and back in 2018. There is free and secure parking at JB Hut car park. I will be back to do it again this coming season. I can recommend coming from Melb. via Sale and Omeo and missing the resort and possibly hairy road conditions coming over the Mt. Hotham summit, even with chains fitted.
     
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  22. Andy Ziggy

    Andy Ziggy Hard Yards

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    Good advice. I go that way quite often. Im too soft for snow camping... You can enter the resort with a car after 3pm, drop off gear and exit before 11.59pm without charge. Then ride bike back to the top. Last season we went for 3 weeks but in the middle of that I had to come home to Melbourne for 3 days of work. The Saturday that I returned was that weekend in the middle of August that puked snow and all the diesel cars were stranded. There was about a foot of snow on the road from the airport to JB plain but my car made it there without chains. Then I rode up in my electric fat bike with a heavy backpack full of groceries and stubbies of beer in my coat pockets. I had to ride in the wheel ruts but I made it alive. Good times. I'm trusting that what's said in this forum, stays in this forum.
     
  23. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    :whistle: Yes .....there are some good strategies to keep out of Resort and to have a good holiday for a week or more without breaking the bank....some of those back country huts offer unique accomodation ....we are so lucky in Vicco to have so many around Hotham and Falls Creek.;)

    And we have Moondog down in Pretty Valley testing canvas under the wildest conditions ....:thumbs:
     
  24. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Many years ago I used to know a veteran ranger based at Bright. He said that he really loved his job... except when it was his turn "to drive up the hill and kick the snowboarders out of JB Hut".

    So take a tent, 'The Powers That Be' don't mind people using JB Hut as somewhere to cook and eat in the evenings, but they really frown on people sleeping in it in winter.

    The other huts on the road near Hotham like Diamantina Hut, Blowhard Hut and the 1920s hut over the road from the entrance to Dinner Plain are so drafty and squalid that you have to brave to enter them and no one is ever tempted to sleep in them.
     
  25. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    When I was camping next to JB hut for two nights on the weekend after it puked with snow in late August 2018 , ( I was a week late to catch the amazing snow fall up there when it was fresh and not icy , due to a skiing injury ), some total newbies to snow turned up and slept in the hut. They had zero gear and experience for the winter snow conditions. They were nice enough people but they were not skiers or snow boarders. Some others who were using the hut to cook in and sit around the fire in the evening were skiing the Razorback by day on AT gear. They had skins, plastic boots , the whole caboodle. I brought pre cut firewood with me from a petrol station in Gippsland.
    It is a great place to snow camp and XC ski. However having a snow tent of your own is the way to go and it is so close to the main road that there is no big slog with a pack involved.
     
  26. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    We could list the top ten ways to avoid The Major resorts for XC skiing and snow camping in season in VIC. based on either degree of effort involved and /or combined with condition of the hut/s and the amount of snow usually forming to make it worth the mission.

    1. JB hut. A simple walk from the Mt. Hotham rd. Good snow camping with a pit loo nearby and good XC skiing too.
    2..Refuge Hut No. 3. Easy /Med. 6.2km slog up Road No. 3 from the top of Carter's Rd. to some good XC ski terrain and free XC ski access to the Razorback huts in white season on Mt. Stirling
    3.Pretty Valley hut . Access via road 24 or over the Ruined Castle or even via the Fainters from Bogong village for the very intrepid . A bus ticket from Mt. Beauty means you can take your gear up to Falls Creek and leave the car in Mt. Beauty.
    4. …………………. and so on. People feel free to add to this rough list.
     
  27. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

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    I'd love to see this as a list - I know there are a few groups around, like Hotham Backcountry on Facebook, but for the most part backcountry, whether resort accessed or not, seems to be limited to those who already know someone who ventures backcountry.

    Considering the difficulty I have had convincing friends to join me on a simple snowboarding trip, backcountry adventures are unlikely at this juncture.
     
  28. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    If people wish to help, I'm willing to coordinate this and put it on my website as a sort of users guide to mountain huts. There is an excellent list of Victorian mountain huts arranged by name on the Kosciusko Huts Association website, although it takes a historic perspective, rather than a users perspective and hasn't been updated for about a decade.

    I had a minor bit of misfortune 30 months ago which means I can only do medium grade hikes and ski tours these days, but I've visited most huts, written a few dozen hut histories and corrected manuscripts of hut books, so I know what I'm talking about, although I'm no longer completely up to date, so I'll need others to field check stuff.

    The format of a Users guide to mountain huts could be something like:
    Hut exterior and interior photos
    Access routes based on time and difficulty
    List of amenities: fireplace or stove, tables, chairs. bunks, etc.
    Some sort of rating based on cleanliness, comfort, reliability of water, etc
    Quality of adjoining camping area based on things like shelter etc.
    Huts arranged by region rather than alphabetically,

    If people are prepared to assist by doing real work rather than just expressing enthusiasm for the idea, send me a message. If there are a few of us, we could cover one mountain or region fairly quickly and move towards a decent users guide to huts (and maybe campsites as well).
     
  29. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    No. 4 . Faithful's hut . Winter access from Trap yard Gap. approx. 6 kms of slog up onto the BHP coming from the winter gate on the Mitta Mitta side.1km drop down from Buckety Plain car park and summer camp site. Drop loos are situated at Buckety plain camp site.
    No.5 Keppel's hut. approx. 5 kms up hill from the winter gate at the junction of Mt. Margaret road and Lady Talbot drive. Winter access to Lake Mtn.'s ski trails without the gate fee.There is a stream for water and a pit loo near the hut.
    No.6 .Lake Catani hut at Mt. Buffalo. Snow camping. BYO firewood for the hut and there is a pit loo. 1 km walk in from the winter gate. Firewood is best towed in on a sled.Good Nordic skiing on the Mt. Buffalo plateau in July and August.
    No.7 .The Bluff Hut. A long slog up from either 8 Mile Gap if the snow is deep and low or from Refrigerator Gap if you have a proper 4 WD . The Intrepid BC vallahs will scale the Bluff walking track in white season with skis strapped to their packs :-0 . Others will follow the Bluff Link road up past the winter gate on the Bluff Track up to the Bluff hut. Day touring XC ski trips to Lovick's hut and other possibilities abound .Food and winter fire place fuel drops in May are recommended.
    No.8
    Roper's hut via the Aqueduct ,Bogong Creek saddle and Timm' s Spur. A huge almost 1.5 day slog up from Clover arboretum to reach Roper's hut on the BHP via the penny pinching and arduous back way.
    No. 9 Cleve Cole Hut via Mulhauser and Long Spur. Access in white season all the way in the tree line with a pole line to follow from Bossiea Hill to the Hut.
    No. 10 Fitzgerald's hut via Shannonvale 4 WD access track "Kelly's track". An 800 M. elevation gain over approx. 10 km to access the BHP 's eastern section.I plan to scout this out in April if possible.
     
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  30. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

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    Assistance over the summer period will become more viable for me in the coming few years - with my recently-3-year-old, I should have a welcome partner for adventure soon. I am hoping that there is a clear weekend in April where I can take him for an overnight bikepacking trip, which will also be his first camping trip. I'm also looking at making it to Keppels Hut by bike from Hurstbridge in April or May this year.
     
  31. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am willing to lend a hand. I have photos and white season resort dodging experience.
     
  32. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Impressive list MToXCS.

    What do people think of this draft format for a hut users guide? I'm more interested in the getting the format right than the exact details of this particular hut. Don't be polite, say how it could be improved.

    [​IMG]
    Plus an interior photo (this is a random internet photo, not mine)

    Derrick Hut.

    Area: Hotham - Feathertop.
    Access. 1 hour (?) walk from Loch car park via yadda yadda...

    Size X metres by Y metres.
    Amenities. Interior water tank, small stove, table, no bunks
    Cleanliness 4 out of 5
    Adjacent camp sites. Flat, non rocky tent sites nearby but not much shelter.
     
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  33. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Villas of the backcountry..for a higher class of Hut....
    Weston’s,Ropers,Ryder’s and Young’s.
    Ryder’s being the most primitive with open fire place table and chairs but a sheltered location and easiest to get at via undulating to flat terrain.The other three are mansions....and considerably comfortable and warm once the wood stoves are cranked up....
    They are all well in from access points....so less people traffic and requirement for other travelers.
    All are good places for extended stays....

    Michelle,Bivouc ,Federation and Cleve Cole are all likely to be crowded during winter season.

    Now I have it on good authority that a decent wood stove has been added to Langford Gap in this poorly sheltered section on the plains....so a reasonable comfortable night for a party of two sleeping on the floor or in tents using hut for warmth and cooking perhaps with minimal distance from Falls Ck.Whoops ...sorry we are talking entrance without paying Carpark fees.Well I suppose folk could go up in bus to save dollars.However one should not count on having a hut to ones self .....thus arriving late in the day is never a good idea ....so you have more time to wander further afield.
     
  34. PiedPiper

    PiedPiper One of Us

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    I might take some abuse for this but.....
    Don't be a dick and park at JB plain just to avoid paying park entry.
    Especially if your planning to leave your car there for multiple nights or long periods of time.

    I often park at JB plain camp, and then go hiking / touring around hotham, and still pay the park entry fee, I dont like it, but i do it. Usually park @ JB over night, and then move to Loch for touring during the day. Recently i have noticed that there are more and more cars parked @ JB plain, I would pretty frustrated after driving for 5+ hours only to discover no spaces left @ JB plain, knowing that some selfish person, is trying to save a bit of $$.

    Maybe it's an issue about the number size of the carparks provided...
     
  35. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Team Bears May have to introduce a permit system for mighty Mulhauser Caroark this winter...that way recouping some monies fir future capital works programs...:whistle:
     
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  36. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    maybe add a section on how busy it is at various times, and maybe even the vibe - more subjective tahn the other things you have outlined, but still useful for planning adventures
     
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  37. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

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    Separate access into green season and white season.
     
  38. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am a bona fide snow camper and BC XC skier so I think it is not unreasonable for me to use the car park at JB hut/ JB Plain to access our Alpine N.P..I am not interested in paying big bucks for parking at resorts if I can help it. The way the NPWS operates the KNP in winter is fairer and more affordable. In fact having a season/annual pass for rusted on Nat. Park users is much more attractive to everyone.
     
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  39. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    The point of this list is to help dodge resort fees for BC snow trips. In Green season there are no fees and 4WD gates are generally not locked so you can approach huts/ BC XC ski terrain from shorter distances.
     
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  40. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Approaching Young's hut from Ms. McCoy's farm/Angler's rest would have to be the longest way there but it is generally all in the tree line.I have not managed to cover that terrain in green season yet. Finding Young's hut in a white out could also be interesting when coming up from Paling spur.
     
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  41. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

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    I figure that a hut user guide is a hut user guide - no only restricted to the snow season.
     
  42. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh ...that is correct...it’s a bloody long way in from the Bundarra Valley.
    Team Bears understand that the most direct route into Macnamarras would be from Hotham Airport ...folllowing old Jeep Track to Cobungra....crossing over on to horse trail and up to plateau ...then along the old Jeep Track to Macnamarras..I am told from reliable sources that the route is a good one and easy to follow.Thats on foot the whole way....apparently you skirt around the airport towards the Hotham end staying on the Sthn side of the tarmac.
    Team Bears will wait till we hear an official trip report in the backcountry section with photos to see if the rumours are correct.:thumbs:

    The green season...particularly before it rains too much is the time to oranize food dumps/caches etc as one can get in close with vehicles to most huts or sections of trails.

    For example....at present one could access right up to Diamintina Horseyards ....switching to a mountain bike ...then ride up to Dibbins Hut!

    In a similar fashion one can get close to many other huts.
     
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  43. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    But how many of those on your list have you actually done in winter? Perhaps they are on your to do list?
     
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  44. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Let the app guide your plans Xplora....the force is strong with you!
     
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  45. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Mr T is just warming up!
     
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  46. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    Good question but having hiked most /some of them in Green season I can say not all of them grab me as potential winter trips.
     
  47. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I am a little confused. You have hiked most (but only some of them) in summer and you have listed them as suitable winter trips to avoid resort entry but you have not done any in winter (apart from JB plain I believe) and then you say not all of them grab you for winter trips. Can you be a bit more specific as to those not suitable and why? Also why would you list them if they are not suitable?
     
  48. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I suggested these routes as a starter for the list. I know some of them from summer hiking. I prefer to do more skiing and less steep and arduous hiking in winter.
     
  49. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    This is a good point. In fact if you walk into the resort and remain to use facilities you still have to pay entry. That is in the legislation. Not sure how it would be policed but rightly they could make people wear an armband to indicate payment. If it is a matter of finding ways into the backcountry without going through resorts then that is fine. If you are just trying to dodge the fee but still receive the benefit then I would not be helping you find ways to do that. I don't use any resort facilities and only driver through Hotham if I need to. I had heard a rumour that you would get a fine if you drove into Hotham and turned around without driving through. The camera now takes a picture either end. This is supposedly to stop people doing the drop off.
     
  50. Xplora

    Xplora One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I can understand that but below is what you said:
    but based on your experience, you cannot provide the required information, it is just guess work. The point being it would be better for you to provide comment on those you have experience with because, as you well know, winter and summer access is vastly different. It would also be fare to say that so far, apart from skiing Buffalo and JB Plain, you have only skied out of resorts so your
    is limited. Just not looking to have people misled. The other thing would be to qualify your experience with these suggestions and others could comment on its suitability from their experience.