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pattern based skis

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Boodwah, Apr 13, 2011.

  1. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    134mm for slackcountry freshies. 90 - 105mm for BC turns. 80mm to 55mm for touring.
     
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  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Boots? Bindings (current, not TTS)?

    Ski style: aggressive at a guess?

    Level: expert at a guess? ;-)
     
  3. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Boots: Ones that fit, heavier for turns lighter for distance. For me NTN for turns and SNSBC for touring.

    Bindings: Free pivot for turns and heaviy touring, NNNBC/SNSBC for touring.

    Level: The gear might change a bit but the same physics apply.

    Shape and width for variable, weight doesn't matter for slackcountry.
    Icy traverses are difficult with much more than 105mm and off piste becomes less enjoyable with much less than 90mm.

    Go skinnier as weight becomes more important.
     
  4. omniplasm

    omniplasm First Runs

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    Thanks for the thread - useful for newbies like I

    Can I slide over to bindings. Have been skiing rossi S7 (Ziggy which are brilliant at 115 underfoot - even not bad on a hard traverse - but it also comes down to the rocker) but the Marker Baron bindings have limitations: the heel lock down is underfoot so you have to step out, it is also prone to icing up, and the heel prop for steeper climbs is hard to get down with a stock (and going down on one knee with a pack is not romantic)

    So I am looking at some specific BC AT skis with a pattern for the rolling stuff that is a pain with skins, while accepting skins for steeper climbs (rossi 125BC, Voile especially the fat fats, perhaps Madshus but they are thinner) but would really appreciate some thoughts.

    Any thoughts on best binding for that particular compromise?

    Cheers

    Omni
     
  5. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I will start a new thread for the binding question and leave what you have here. If your would like to reply to the binding question please go the binding thread.

    And the binding thread would be here.
     
    #55 skifree, Oct 6, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    So many variables: ski length, camber/rocker, width, pattern length and type. Even wax (yep, tip and tail for Spring snow). (And binding and boot etc etc).

    In an earlier thread IIRC or was it this one (can't be fagged going back) a useful question was put: do you tour to turn or do you tour with a few turns thrown in? That partly addresses the question of what trade-offs you can live with if you only have a quiver of one.

    On this forum I've been reading doubts about the Rossi's from memory. But I haven't tried wider than 78mm underfoot and don't do steep and deep anyway. In spring snow on the BHP the Guides, with 7TM Power Tours and T2Xs work a treat for me - but that's 70% kick and glide and 30% telemarking.
     
  7. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    daydreaming about some pattern bases for slackcountry AT, especially near Falls Creek. Plan would be to stick with downhill boots and reuse some old Diamir (Fritchi) bindings. Would hope to pick up bargain skis.

    skins are just too slow for the rolling terrain. my lack of xc expertise makes descents unsatisfying (if you discount the sheer relief of just surviving). I'm looking for a cheap answer - dynafit is out of the question at this stage.

    Guides/Annums sound perfect, but bargain-hunters can't be too picky. What other skis should I be thinking about for this folly?
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    One option Curra is to pick up some old 'all mountain' skis and get a pattern base cut into them. Can give you the name of a guy in Melb who does this; a mate of mine did it himself - not too hard with a VS router and a DIY jig.

    Apart from that isn't RV ski hire having an ex-rental sale ATM?
     
  9. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks Ziggy. I haven't looked at their range lately, but in the past they didn't have much in wide shaped pattern bases. Maybe I should check.

    I might get that contact from you just in case. I've seen some skis done by someone in Melbourne and thought that the pattern was probably way too aggressive. Iirc the fish scales had a diameter of about an inch. Have you seen what your contact does?
     
  10. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    PM sent.
     
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yoiks!

    Got out the new SBound 112s for a summer wax coat and the fish scales are all upside down cp. the Guides and their age-old pattern.

    But no; finger testing shows the edges still face forward. Interesting.

    Also cp the Guides the camber is distinctly stiffer.

    Looking forward to skiing with them next season.

    As posted elsewhere, have only had a short spell on those borrowed from weerab. In use: nice flex and good turn initiation. Good grip.
     
  12. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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  13. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Rossignol do a series of pattern based skis. WS in Jindy normally has a selection of these.


    Salomon also do a series of pattern based skis but I’m not sure who if anyone in Oz currently stocks them.


    Voile also do some of their skis in a pattern base, Rythym sometimes has some of these.
     
  14. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep, did see Bruce has some. Might shoot him an email. Ditto Rythym
     
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  15. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    FWIW: I have a set of the v1 Voile Vector BC in 170cm, and have been very pleased with them. I've also briefly skied on a friend's V6 BC in IIRC 173cm, briefly because of incompatible boots.

    The Vectors do well most of the time, but could occasionally be stiffer in firm snow or when going fast, or wider in glop. If I had an unlimited budget (yeah, right) I'd be looking at these...

    https://www.voile.com/voile-hyper-v6-skis.html

    ...in 173 or 178; I'm in the middle of the weight range at ~65kg. It really depends on what matters to you though. I'm not a speed demon in the backcountry, and less weight matters more to me than more width, or stiffness for skiing on ice. I have some 110 waist skis and while they're great for powder, something narrower and more capable of holding an edge is more useful here IMO. If you make wide skis stiff enough to work on really firm stuff they get heavy, and so do the boots to drive them. YMMV.
     
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  16. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sounds perfect. Now to find a pair
     
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  17. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hi Fozzie Bear,

    Rythm seem pretty helpful on the phone. They only have select sizes and they website (for availability) awaits updating. Worth a go? Covid is not helping the ordering process.

    I’ve recently had email chats with Voile and they’re helpful too, with stuff like model selection, scales vs flat, and suitability for Mounting teles. (Can’t do it with the Hyper models).

    Voile seem to prefer The UltraVector for those doing longer tour & approaches (with some turning); they suggest The V6 is the go if the turn is the primary goal (That’s with US snow in mind) - I think Ziggy and other have noted this on another thread.

    https://www.voile.com/voile-skis.html

    FWIW; I’ve read quite a lot on Nth American sites like TeleTalk and there’s a lot of praise for the Vector BC model for flatter approaches and rolling terrain And more recently the UV BC. Happy hunting!

    http://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtop...r&sid=298f828cd31d5b5658cc0cfc6b3b4a42#p30864
     
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  18. pegasusSki

    pegasusSki Addicted

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    Lots of people in the queue going for a Voile replacement - I'm headed UltraVector or equiv come the time ;-)
     
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  19. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    @snowgum UltaVectors grabbed for +0.95 (Mk III). Nothing in my size ATM and shipping costs from US for a pair of skis currently a bit steep. Should reduce the amount of skins on/off for one of us :D
     
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  20. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hey FB, maybe I’m having a slow day (it is the weekend!) - do you mean UVs cost A$950 from the US Voile site?

    On that note: I think they have (or had) some clearance non BC UVs - Plus ~ $100 shipping so at $US 0.65 per $A the flat Base model was about A$850 ex ATO / GST.

    I imagine Voile HQ will have the new season stock available in our spring - perhaps Rythm May have received an order by then? That would make the delivery simpler and possibly cheaper?
     
  21. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    @snowgum was quoted $1k less 20% discount from Rhythm from skis currently in stock. Add Dynafit ST 10 (Rotation)..... another $1,200 ski. Might go back and add Phantom........ now with Phantom.
     
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  22. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    cheers, cool - good to support locals! - I was told they’re out of large sizes (184). So I can wait till fresh - meanwhile will try to hire whatever's the Closest length from their rentals?
     
  23. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    @snowgum yep... I would have grabbed a pair for myself if they had 184cm.
     
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  24. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    he he! Funny! Like the big Myer Boxing Day free for all!
     
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  25. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Got the 166cm Annum for Arthur (13) from Rhythm some weeks back, mounted Dynafit TLT2’s on them. We ventured out up Mt Hotham & Mt Loch with them last Saturday.

    He rates them, and we’re set for the season....
     
  26. pegasusSki

    pegasusSki Addicted

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    I note from Voile that the Ultravectors don't take quiver killers and the HyperVectors are AT only

    I can understand that quiver might weaken the ultralight core - but why AT only (Hyper) - do teles stress the ski more?
     
  27. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    And are we talking about pattern based skis here, as per thread title? Would be Ultra Vector bc, then? FB, what is the longest available?
     
  28. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    Tele bindings load the ski over a much smaller area, increasing the chance of ripping the bindings out of the ski. With AT a lot of the lateral forces go through the heel, and upward forces are minimal compared with tele. Lightweight cores and topsheets also don't help, and nor do bigger holes (Quiver Killers). It's not just Voile - other manufacturers specify some skis for AT only, including Volkl.
     
  29. PiniPowPow

    PiniPowPow One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I have some old voile vector bc with dynafits spin bindings on them, willing to let them go pretty cheap if anyone is interested.
     
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  30. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’d be interested to give them a whirl - with or without the bindings, but others without a BC option atm might best have first preference.
     
  31. PiniPowPow

    PiniPowPow One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  32. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Howdy, largest is a modest 184 cm. But that’s not a bad length to control for turning.

    I note the V6 (both bases I think) go to 188.
     
  33. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep, will contact, depends on length. I’ll PM.
     
  34. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Not sure if you’re Looking at me? but don’t hold back if it’s what you want. Cheers.
     
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  35. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    If I go this path - QK. & teles - it’s a bit of risk. Voile seemed to think it was ‘reasonably safe’ for my conservative skiing - not cliff jumping etc... Might be worth the risk for a decent ski? Reasonably unique with a pattern in a wider alpine-style ski.
     
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  36. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Don’t panic, do what you want.

    Refer my previous notes on QK’s into lightly built skis.

    Avoid cornice hucking.
     
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  37. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Voile Vectors, V6s etc in my book are a width for soft snow. In typical Oz spring touring conditions they're suboptimal for glide and edging.
    And they have minimal camber and soft flex and drag their belly.
    I use V6s for piste and sidecountry and they're pretty horrible on ice and hardpack.
    Edited
     
    #87 Ziggy, May 24, 2020
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
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  38. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thats why I’m going try to hire a pair of UV in NSW, put them through the ringer. Try the grip/glide etc...

    A day or two on Annums et al beforehand should make a fair comparison.

    By all accounts, most of the models mentioned in the BC forum will provide quite a different experience to my beloved Morottos - especially above the tree line.

    I rarely rent skis (size 30 boots can be an issue too!) - it should be an interesting winter of testing - less lifts! :cool:
     
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  39. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Annum's flex is pretty soft too - compared with the Eons and S-bounds.
     
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  40. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    ‘Slightly’ soft could be good Ziggy, I’m still in occasional therapy from using those Straight, skinny, 70s /early 80s skis from the uni bushwalking club. Always happiest going dead straight.

    Anything I get will be predominantly with a day touring mindset. So soft not quite such a big issue - personal weight can be!
     
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  41. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    FWIW: I was going to flag Voile’s Objective model (time to get a commission!), as more touring-aligned ski.

    But: Voile use the ‘Hyper’ - type construction and it’s a ‘no tele binding’ ski - not just ‘no QK’ - plus the longest model is a 178, which might suit some here but not me.

    Anyway here tis:
    https://www.voile.com/voile-objective-bc-skis.html
     
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  42. legend

    legend One of Us

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    Go 3 Pin like the Voile set up. Use a cable as required. This gives maximum toe/boot bend for maximum glide with out killing your feet. Great for touring into places like Jagungal, K to K, BHP, etc. Use the Garmont excursions boot (definitely no heavier) for max enjoyment - also a fantastic setup for big downhill slopes like the Crags, Bogong, cornice jumping, etc. Just get your technique and nothing will stop you.
     
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  43. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Howdy Legend,

    yes I sort of. My Morrotos tele steps & my narrowest tele ski (Fischer 68) have Voile CRB, with which I usually mount a Voile Hardwire and would alternate between Syner G & Excursion depending on the mountain and duty. I have one or two Voile 3 pins left with spring side cables for the little hills.

    Like you I enjoy touring in Excursions, the SynerGs were never as comfortable (stiffer & higher) and Used to rub without tape - yes even with good heat moulded footbeds. I’ll be sticking with Excursions for simple light daytrips - I am going to test them with my Rustler 9s and Hammerheads/kickers to see if they can power a wider/lounger/heavier ski than previous.

    My TX Pros will be nicer with Lynx eventually - I suspect I’ll keep these for the short side country - turning trips. So I better keep doing them! More so! ;):thumbs:
     
  44. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hiring's a good idea Snowgum.

    As we said in woodturning, some tools you make friends with, some you don't.
     
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  45. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Tx Pros - & use for lift days - hope that will happen in 2020.
     
  46. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thanks Ziggy: my hat is dipped to you to be able to wood turn! Good wood skills comes in handy with skis and mounting bindings. :thumbs:
     
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  47. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Last season I skied the V6s with TX Pros and Outlaws on Safeouts. There were 3 days of front and sidecountry that were sensational as far as telemarking went.
    This winter I'll be using the TX Pros with Lynx, between Annums and V6s. Looking forward to that.
     
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  48. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would too. The Lynx should lighten the load c/w Outlaws.

    Are you using Lynx with Safeouts or is that WIP?
     
  49. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yep.
    The mount works like a quiver killer so bindings can be swapped between skis.
     
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  50. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    v cool & safer! :thumbs::skier: