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pattern based skis

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Boodwah, Apr 13, 2011.

  1. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    But a distant memory :eek:
     
  2. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, ~ 40 years ago; ~ 5 years before discovering skiing.

    I had to eat well in those days to put on ‘obvious’ weight! < SIGH! >

    Gee there’d be a lot cheap used skis around if I had stayed that size? o_O:whistle:
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes it will. How long it lasts depends on the snow. I once did all my Morotto pattern that way. It's an education in what the pattern costs you.

    Taking some liquid or paste wax on spring days works a treat. Say on the trail run off Stirling back to TBJ. Treat the whole base beforehand and it noticeably adds to glide.
     
  4. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Clean your bases and get them Phantomed. You will never wax again.
     
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  5. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hi, FB. Interested to know about the Phantom coating on pattern based skis. Do they apply the coating over the pattern? Does this affect the effectiveness of the grip? Or do they leave the pattern area alone? Thanks.
     
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  6. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Will find out. I have had it applied over the whole base. As the pattern provides the grip, it shouldn't adversely impact the uphill performance but should improve glide.
     
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  7. Chaeron

    Chaeron A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Keep us posted!
     
  8. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    +1

    Who does whatever this is, where, and roughly what does it cost? And will skins still stick on afterwards?
     
  9. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Mine do.

    The skis came from dps with phantom on them.
     
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  10. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    But you are not using pattern based skis with Phantom (as per thread title)? Or maybe?
     
  11. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    No.

    But I was saying my skins stick to my phantomed base. As referenced in the quote in my post.
     
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  12. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Like @skifree have been using skins on AT skis since last winter. First pair of pattern based skis, so will see how it goes.

    Cost wise, about $100 if you DIY. $135 from Rhythm applied (including UV box curing).
     
    #162 Fozzie Bear, May 30, 2020
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  13. mholling

    mholling One of Us

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    I have no issues waxing my pattern bases occasionally; just running a paper towel along behind the the iron to absorb the excess and prevent the pattern filling in. Most of the grip would come from the vertical bits of the pattern against the snow, so a bit of wax on them shouldn't change much.

    Love to see some innovation in ski bases. The phantom stuff looks pricey though, maybe I'll wait for an off-brand!
     
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  14. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    In super fresh snow I use Fischer pattern base de icer but the good stuff that makes that work well is being phased out . Fischer are not making it any more because the active ingredient is bad for the environment. The same goes Swix F4 paste wax which is very handy stuff indeed when skiing in ultra fresh snow when it bunches up on the tips and tails of the PB skis.
     
  15. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Days past?
    In the 80s we would have been advised to take a small can of silicon WP spray on trips as a de-icing agent. Don’t think I ever tried it for deciding but I used to WP gaiters and boots and things...
     
  16. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The irony of skins on a PB....(I do it, haha, actually I have used kickers on the front of the ski to good effect)
     
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  17. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    I use BD kicker skins in concert with PB skis to good effect. I am not interested in herringboning or side stepping up steeper slopes/ascents for any more than 20 steps.
     
  18. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Silver

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    If you sniff WD40 your powers of deciding would diminish.
     
  19. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yyykk! I try not to. But I do get a vague ‘High’ from the waft of hot ski wax indoors. :cool:
     
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you can find Wend paste wax it beats other cold treatments by a country mile.

    On the smooth sections it can last as long as a hot wax if done over a hot wax.
     
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  21. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’ve finally pulled the trigger on the UV BCs - I figured the light wasn’t going to get any greener!
    I guess delivery from US will be a couple of weeks +/-?

    Anyway needless to say I am v excited to Order by first ever wide / ‘turny’ pattern-base ski. It will be interesting to have PB & flat bases skis in wide widths. apart from the obvious reduction in weight (lighter ski - generally no skins).

    I’ll look further into this Phantom treatment before I use these babies in anger? An opportunity to pop into Aussie Skier?

    If I do ski out the back of Thredbo in Spring (as hoped?) this year, I’ll have a good volume of test data to report back. Stirling too! :cool::D:skier:

    FWIW: Have Also ordered the Hyper V BC for a mate for his new AT kit. I did say our Utah ‘friends’ would be busy. ;)

    For anyone who can find their preferred ski on the Voile site, it’s best to call / email and ask about the timing of the next production run. My contact (Andrew) is very helpful - he mentioned a UV BC run is expected ‘in June’. Cheers. :thumbs:
     
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  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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  23. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    A couple of interesting new technologies.

    The Fischer one seems pretty logical although it looks one into an integrated Fischer binding. If the binding and sliding mechanism Are both functional that’s not a problem.

    The Mohair grip area looks quite short and this. It looks OK for nice grip snow or almost flat terrain (Rock Valley Lake?) when one doesn’t want to skate. In firm snow and steeper terrain it may struggle?

    The Madshus grip pattern is hard to make out being in black. Seems to have V shaped blocks of 90 lateral grip grooves? Be nice to test in various conditions.

    I rarely skate or do classic on light narrow gear (these days) so I’ll leave that report ‘to the experts’.
     
  24. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Fischer is real back to the future. Fur in the base of xc skis was about in the 60s, maybe later.
     
  25. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes. And mica IIRC.

    It seems the 'Zero' base grew out of competition in warm snow where klister was never going to be feasible.

    Another significant thing about the Fischer Twin Skins is the movable bindings: "Thanks to the adjustable TURNAMIC® bindings you can specify performance: move them forward for more grip and easier climbing. Move them to the rear for noticeable better gliding properties." https://www.fischersports.com/au_en/explore/nordic-highlights/twin-skin-skis
    In touring with PBs I happened on the practise of leaning back when gliding downhill. It takes the some weight off the pattern and so reduces drag.
     
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  26. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Leaning back?

    I reckon this helps with kicker skins too - when it’s not worth removing skins for a short downhill.

    It’s a subtle improvement in this scenario but It’s detectable.
     
  27. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I see that the current generation Madshus - Eon, Epoch and Annum - come with rilled bases.

    It's easy to take this off with a scraper when you're doing a wax so beware.
     
  28. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    i was looking at some skinny salomons at EMC with the skin thing the other day
     
  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    So that makes 3 brands doing it. Fischer for a few years now. Must be something in it.
     
  30. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  31. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Rilled Ziggy? Roughed up grip?
     
  32. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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  33. Boodwah

    Boodwah One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sticky May snow this year needed spray on wax for pattern bases to stop snow agglutinanting. Before we reached for the wax, each ski was clumping up to 10kg of snot. But wax almost made it feel like powder.
     
  34. mholling

    mholling One of Us

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    The closest I get to structuring is a copper brush which I use after scraping. Is it worth doing more? The rilling tools have a confusing variety of patterns.

    New Fischers come with a nice rilled base too.

    It's skins on everything with BC nordic skis these days; it looks a bit fad-ish to me.
     
  35. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Madshus rilling is deeper than a medium bronze brush does though my pic doesn't show it.
     
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  36. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I got Achilles tendonitis out of a trip marked by balling up. Not recommended.
     
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  37. satanas

    satanas Addicted

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    Re the Fischer twin skins: Rumour has it they're fast and work in lots of conditions; I have some to try. The Fischer Zero skis either work brilliantly, or else have zero grip, depending on snow conditions; they're fast. Fischer's crown bases work on just about everything, blue ice excepted, though other bases might be faster - or not grip. The hairy bases might work sometime, for somebody, but friends have had no success; they rarely grip, and ditto for rubber/chemical bases. Maybe they work in places where it's always really cold, but that's not Oz, or apparently most Worldloppet races either. :-(
     
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  38. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Preparing zero base 'hairy' skis ...

     
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  39. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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  40. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    My home-made ski vise.
    An okky strap holds the binding down.


     
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  41. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Somewhere I posted that Madshus is printing the turning radius on the Annums and Epochs on their decks. Both c. 28m. Both only have 15mm width variation a side.

    I mentioned that because I learned from the inimitable tele instructor dossa5 how important that aspect of performance is. He recommended I get a ski with under 20m. My V6s are 18m. Due to a fear of crashing I prefer to tele slower rather than faster and a tighter radius makes that possible while still trying to carve.
     
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  42. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    18m is a nice middly radius. My new UV BC 184s are 20m from memory. That's ‘long enough’ for good turning.