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Perisher - lame idea for the day

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by BlueHue, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    Was thinking about how Vail might approach upgrading Perisher's lift network over the years and what they could do that is different from existing masterplan which has pretty much been followed so far.

    Work on the assumption this is fantasy land and obviously will never happen - I'm just a dreamer! Came up with the lame idea of linking Perisher's main peaks more directly via tram (for windy days obviously). Call it Perisher's own peak to peak. If you draw a straight line on a map from top of Summit Chair at Blue Cow to top of Sun Valley t-bar on Mt P (to line up with a rumour that the restaurant at the bottom of Mt P double will move up to mid mtn somewhere) it passes almost straight through Blue Cow Terminal (mid station 1) and the top of the Perisher Quad (mid station 2). Suddenly all of Perisher's main areas (excluding Guthega) can be linked via a single lift ride. Your done with Mt P for the day and want to hit up the ridge. Ski down to Sun Valley tram station and 10 mins later you are at the top of the Ridge. Alternative two would be the last leg from Blue Cow terminal could go to bottom of Ridge instead of Blue Cow summit.

    Oh yeh, and whack a t-bar up to top of Back Perisher from the bottom of Pretty Valleys' initial steeper slope. A couple of nice steeper open fall lines between 1800m-2000m that have the perfect south easterly aspect for loading and holding snow.
     
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  2. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    What sort of budget are you wanting to play with here?
     
  3. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    The kind of budget no one in their right mind would spend on an Australian ski resort!
     
  4. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    re the peak to peak thingy, planning approval would be an issue
    the ‘NP’ in ‘KNP’ might be a clue
    that said the govt is pro-developer, the deputy premier is the local MP and might support it
    I think of it in comparison to dog ownership: 50% of us have dogs but 50% don’t, so dog people have to accept they can’t do what they like with their dog
    a much smaller proportion of the population go anywhere near the snow, and the majority are unlikely to sympathise with something they might regard as overreach by a privileged few at the expense of the national estate
     
  5. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Footprint of a peak to peak to peak gondola is smaller than many other potential developments, and of course lies within existing developed area. Most people couldn't see the business case for P2P at Whistler but it's been a massive success. Summer visitation has gone up even more. Something like this would kick off a summer op at Perisher in a big way, which they need to do if they have any hope of growing their business in a winter sports market with zero growth and lukewarm longterm prospects as temps slowly creep up. Summer has been the only big growth area in ski resorts all over nth american and europe for a decade now.
     
  6. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    I wonder how the Perisher village plans are coming along?
     
  7. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Exactly. while Perisher is the one of the five big Australian resorts with lots of surface tows (mainly sloooow T-bars), the place has an even bigger problem, namely the lack of a town centre or any real town planning.

    Thredbo has an excellent town centre, Buller has a good one, Falls is... getting there. Hotham is bloody awful, but it's still more focused than the utter dogs breakfast that is Perisher town planning. It looks like someone just spat a mouthful of half chewed food onto a map and wherever a fragment of masticated carrot landed, that's where they issued a building permit. There is no focus, no purpose, no nothing to it.

    Now you can say that running the lifts and installing new ones is a totally different job than managing the buildings in a ski resort. But that's almost avoiding the issue. Perisher will never get close to achieving it's potential until they get a strong willed town planner who can impose their will on the squabbling groups and come up with a proper town centre and do something to reduce the anarchy of the chaotic lack of planning in the rest of Perisher Valley. * RANT ENDS. *
     
  8. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    ... or you could have a longterm master plan, and still f@$k it up, like Whistler. Big maze with everyone wandering around looking for the way out.
     
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  9. Marty_McSly

    Marty_McSly Backwards to the future! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Said politician has difficulty distinguishing Perisher from Thredbo.
     
  10. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hmmm if the rumoured gondi on Mt P happens I suppose anything is possible!
     
    #10 Ozgirl, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  11. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    Maybe add a gondi from bottom of ridge to top of terminal to link in with the tram!
     
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  12. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    to be fair, you are talking about a politician

    Perhaps a hint for the polly: one begins with a P and one doesnt
     
  13. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perisher had a town centre, it's called Jindabyne. Perisher doesn't need a town centre. The vast bulk of its customers are happy to commute in exchange for cheaper accommodation and better night life than any where else in the Australian snow industry.
     
  14. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Skiing is a growth market in Australia
     
  15. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'd settle for a warm clean dunny
     
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  16. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Your Park is for the poo works. Hey value and make sure you make your morning deposit at Perisher.
     
  17. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    With thermals?
    No thanks
     
  18. Ret-ro

    Ret-ro One of Us

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  19. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Perisher was never planned. The location of the lodges was determined by promoters of lodges meeting representatives of the Park Trust.

    Park Trust "Where do you want to build?
    Lodge person "Here"
    PT "OK"

    The surveys were done after the buildings were built.
     
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  20. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Do you really believe that?

    Do you not think Perisher with a town centre and planned accom would be a better product for those who wished to pay for it.
     
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  21. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    What about all the existing lodges, members and their leases?
     
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  22. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    By all means leave existing buildings where they are, but the priority should be to build a proper town centre with shops, pubs and offices near there and permitting mid density accommodation in adjoining areas. Of course all those old lodges scattered around the back of beyond should be permitted to remain, but if they wish to rebuild, any new buildings should be required to be close to the new town centre and conform to the overall town plan.

    Most other ski resorts in the country have basic guidelines like that. Buller got a proper town plan and initial subdivision of 25 sites way back in 1948 when applications for building permits were in areas miles apart, Thredbo got a plan in 1957. Plans like that kept everything neat and accessible and stopped the resort sprawling out everywhere. Even Dinner Plain which is entirely on freehold land has rules on where buildings can be placed to stop the resort looking like random buildings have been vomited down every gulch and gully for miles around which is what Perisher looks like.
     
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  23. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    They should stay. Surely someone worth half their salt could design around them. Retain some history.
     
  24. Brimmo

    Brimmo Hard Yards

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    Does anyone know what the skier visit numbers are for the season at the entire Perisher resort for a season ?

    I think the Vail Mountain resort had between 1.6 & 1.7 million skier visits last winter. (a skier visit being a single person loading a chair at least once on any given day) - it might surprise us how close the numbers are relative to each other.
     
  25. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    It would be a better product, but Perisher is the most visited and most profitable ski resort in Australia. Resort centers aren't that important, especially when a good town is nearby.
     
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  26. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    We want our town centre. Pity it has to be a monopoly town, but still better than not having one.
     
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  27. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Socialising in Perisher is different. Long term regulars in the resort do not often go out to socialise - they stay in their accommodation. Going out is too hard because of dispersal and lack of cleared paths. It's a different vibe. Non-Perisher people don't get this and want to impose their own ideas about how things should be done.
     
  28. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    So you're saying Perisher people don't go out because it's just "too hard"?

    Why not fix things up so they have the choice of going out without difficulty or they can stick with their existing habit of staying at home and not venturing out into the scary darkness. That way socialites and agoraphobics will both be happy. :)
     
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  29. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm saying Perisher people don't go out. That's the culture.
     
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  30. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    A village would help solve that problem.
     
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  31. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oddly, Perisher people don't see it as a problem.
     
  32. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Club lodges are about hanging with club members by a fire or heater and having a glass or two (or 12). You may well have skied the same week as your guests every year for 20 years.

    It’s a different idea.

    For commercial feel, go to The Man, or Jindy it Thredbo.
     
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  33. BlueHue

    BlueHue One of Us

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    Just extend the tube already to Jindabyne so Jindabyne can officially become Perishers town centre/ski village, then get rid of that ugly ass car park for once and all and replace it with a village green with coffee cart and thai food van. The clubbies will ignore it because it'll be hopelessly cold and wind swept and getting pissed in front of the fire in the lodge with other crusty ski people is way more fun..... result is the village green will become Perishers new unofficial camp ground and the cross country trails across the road will fill up with shredded tents blown off in the wind, in turn this means the village green will fill up with the camper vans of those savvy enough not to camp on a wind swept plain and Perisher will gets its own car park ski bum scene.
     
  34. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes, I get that. That "club family" feel of the lodge is one of the factors making the lodge the special place it is, but it would be nice to have something more than The Man on the other end of a 20+ minute walk on those nights when some of us decide on a night out of the lodge.
     
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  35. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think the argument is that some people prefer to remain isolated in the evenings, so they see no reason why Perisher should get a proper town centre where other people, who are more socially inclined, would have the option of going to the town centre which would be a vibrant and varied area at night and provide a good mix of shops and cafes in the day time.
     
  36. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Build it and they shall come- oh wait.
     
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  37. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    this is serious engineering of larger scale than the existing tube,
    cost = huge
    not sure who’s paying
    I get a feeling that no one is paying enough attention to the fact that this is a national park
    there is enough doubt about having the major commercial enterprises that are already within the park without aggravating it
     
  38. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hey this is one of the State’s most-loved National Parks; why don’t we excise a whole lot of land from it and make a town?
     
    #38 climberman, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019 at 7:54 AM
  39. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Sorry, it's a ski resort first and foremost. No matter what it may be officially, in reality it's an important tourist town that gives jobs to thousands of people (both directly and indirectly). While Victoria's ski resorts are not in parks, ski resorts in NSW are technically in parks, but are run separately. That may be a formal difference, but in reality resorts in both states work much the the same as far as visiting skiers are concerned. Ski resorts in both states are tourist towns.

    Saying Perisher is not a tourist town because it's technically in a park is like saying that Taiwan is not a real country because no major country has formal relations with it. The reality is that Taiwan is a real country and Perisher is a tourist town.
     
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  40. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    no dispute that it’s a tourist town
    however, development of these facilities is more contentious because of the status of a national park, and particularly political agitation
    not sure about your Taiwan analogy, though its status as not-China has resulted in a number of legal issues and parameters around economic relations which could be a parallel, sort-of
    in tourist places like Yosemite or the Lake District the various authorities have accepted or encouraged more commercial and residential development but that hasn’t meant it wasn’t also contentious
    Trump’s decision last year about Bear’s Ears is the ultimate park-lover’s nightmare
     
  41. SMSkier

    SMSkier One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    FFS..... government, the National Parks and Vail (Perisher) can’t even sort out the damn head lease!!!

    If they can get their collective wisdom around that then just maybe whoever gets the head lease (no one other than Vail is negotiating for the lease as I understand it) will be able to invest in something other than a few lift upgrades.

    Lease is only for about 40 years.....
     
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  42. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    No one is "isolated". They are sitting around talking to family, old friends and new friends. And they have been for generations and across generations.
     
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  43. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Unlimited money ?

    1. Bullocks Flat Development

    I would purchase and redevelop Lake Crakenback. Build a whole lot of condos, put in a lift to service a family friendly MTB course and build a Kelly Slater wave pool. During winter, people could then ski either major resort. During summer they can MTB ride or surf. Put in a regular bus service between Jindy and Bullocks Flat.

    2. Charlotte Pass Development

    I would purchase and redevelop Charlotte Pass. Put a train in to replace the oversnow from Perisher. Put some T-bars in between Charlottle Pass and Perisher to link the 2 resorts. Build a small town centre and huts at Charlotte Pass to service BC skiing during winter and hiking during summer.

    3. Perisher Development

    Put some toilets in at the bottom Eyre.

    The chances of any of the above happening approach zero.
     
  44. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Yes and that's exactly what we do at our club lodge in Thredbo. Wouldn't change it for the world. My wife and kids love it and I love that my kids get it and can have a great time without multi media. Our open fire is better than a television.
    BUT
    Having the amenities of a village / town is really handy for when you need them or want them. They don't have to be mutually exclusive.

    I'm not a lover of development in National Parks, full stop but Perisher is a ski village. If it's contained and done properly then it can enhance the community feel.
     
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  45. LDJ

    LDJ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I couldn’t give a monkey’s about the town vibe. Invest all the money on faster lifts and more terrain. This is the first year I haven’t travelled down from Brisbane due to the hoards experienced last year. I’ve seen less crowds during French school holidays in the main resorts
     
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  46. Fast Eddie

    Fast Eddie One of Us

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    I would either put a lift up, or open up a cat skiing operation up the range right in front of the Guthega Inn. SO much great terrain there and already a workable base with Guthega.
     
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  47. Bogong

    Bogong Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Or they could just rebuild the old tow on the East Ridge of Mt Tate?
     
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  48. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I know where there is one, BUT i'm not telling!!
     
  49. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend Ski Pass: Gold

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    But then it would be busy!
     
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  50. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    This.
    I'm a Perisher "clubbie".
    Happy to hang out in house , have our winter beers etc stashed safely well in advance of the roads closing.
    Beers , music, the wax room , and the ski wax room ;)
    It's an economic way to ski.
    on mountain food ??? pfffft.
    what traffic in the mornings ?
    BUT.
    Not opposed at all to giving Perisher Central a re-birth.
    The big problem as we know is carparking and access.
    As I see it gotta fix the Jindy - PV link.
    tube is a start.
    work in progress .
    IMO.
     
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