Perisher Master Plan

Donza

Dogs body...
Platinum
Apr 21, 2004
136,567
99,462
3,563
woonona
Not grumpy at all. Have spent a bit of time in the area in summer over the years and the only thing appealing about Perisher in summer is when Eyre Cafe is open.
Key points to remember:

1) Concept Plan for village was approved including NPWS tick of approval many years ago
2) Leasing arrangements complicated and stopped progress (by all reports)
3) Sounds like Vail can't be bothered figuring out 2
4) Just like Vail can't be bothered with mtn biking.
5) Snowies Iconic Trail and the much loved Porcupine Rocks viewing platform concept will bring a little more life to summer in Perisher (to those lodges that could be bothered opening) but still no one will bother to build a village.
Funny that the highlight of Perisher in summer is a cafe that only takes cash for its over-priced Hamburgers.
 

DidSurfNowSki

One of them
Ski Pass
Jan 19, 2014
13,942
29,717
813
Canberra, ACT
To echo the comments I made elsewhere...

Perisher in summer has little to offer.

Vail should:
- Build a whole lot of condos down in Bullocks Flat and flog them
- Put a wave pool in the middle of it
- Build a MTB park skiers right of the skitube
- Run MTBers up the skitube

That way both summer and winter activities are catered for, they get good use of the investment they've already made in the skitube and they can fund the whole thing through the sale of the condos.
 

Chookfooter

Cranky Curmudgeon
Ski Pass
May 11, 2020
2,005
3,892
363
They lose money on the tube in winter, running it in the other 3 seasons means they only lose more money.
 

robbo mcs

A Local
Ski Pass
Sep 1, 2008
5,519
24,940
563
Kenthurst / Jindabyne
Key points to remember:

1) Concept Plan for village was approved including NPWS tick of approval many years ago
2) Leasing arrangements complicated and stopped progress (by all reports)
3) Sounds like Vail can't be bothered figuring out 2
4) Just like Vail can't be bothered with mtn biking.
5) Snowies Iconic Trail and the much loved Porcupine Rocks viewing platform concept will bring a little more life to summer in Perisher (to those lodges that could be bothered opening) but still no one will bother to build a village.

With regards to 4), Vail owns and operates some of the biggest, busiest mtb operations in the world. So they do understand the business. It is not like they have forgotten about it. It will have been looked at in detail, and the fact that it hasn't happened means they think it is not viable. They don't have to share those reasons with us, could be many things, including environmental etc
 

warrie

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 15, 2008
1,092
1,224
363
Sydney
Quote 5) Snowies Iconic Trail and the much loved Porcupine Rocks viewing platform concept will bring a little more life to summer in Perisher.
Only been to Porc Rocks once every 4 years or so including Wed last week as the cloudbase lowered to the 1990 m level of the Duncan trig. Cut across from the Wheatley Link 2.3 km trail and met the Ranger and his landscaping offsider who were measuring up for some P Rocks track improvements. Negotiated the boggy section on Wheatley to join trail from Perisher and onto the rocks with 50 + metres of solid ice banks up against the rocks on W side. The wind had scoured out the ice making a 300 mm gap next to the tors so we could squeeze through. Then back to Perisher which was dead at 3 pm. No chance of hitching back up the hill to the car so ended up an 11 km round trip.
As for a viewing platform, I like it as it is. No desire to pay for the view. Ah, it's capitalism in action again. Nuff said. Saw only 4 bods on the walk and one flame robin, always a treat.

P1000982.JPG


P1000981.JPG
 

warrie

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 15, 2008
1,092
1,224
363
Sydney
IIRC I posted that when it came out. And do you think that the govt will get it right? On the same trip last week as above pix, here's the new dunny at Island Bend airstrip when it rains. Looks OK on outside but inside......

P1000994.JPG


P1000998.JPG
 
Last edited:

Schnaxxy Schnaxxlburger

but a dream within a dream
Ski Pass
Jun 23, 2001
47,872
35,979
1,563
macdonaldtown
IIRC I posted that when it came out. And to think that the govt will get it right. On the same trip last week as above pix, here's the new dunny at Island Bend airstrip when it rains. Looks OK on outside but inside......

P1000994.JPG


P1000998.JPG
reminds me of an expression we use at work to sum up much of what we do: ‘it’s a little bit shit’
 
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

VSG

Crayon Master
Moderator
Ski Pass
Jan 1, 1998
72,642
9,797
1,525
Port Macquarie NSW
www.tumblr.com
IIRC I posted that when it came out. And to think that the govt will get it right. On the same trip last week as above pix, here's the new dunny at Island Bend airstrip when it rains. Looks OK on outside but inside......

P1000994.JPG


P1000998.JPG
I often think that 'open air' designs like that of public infrastructure are to stop, prevent camping inside them. And the odour control. :)
 

warrie

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jun 15, 2008
1,092
1,224
363
Sydney
Got trapped in a storm once at Ngarigo doing TVT. Dunny building big enough to have a seat along the inside wall so as to sit rather than stand for 90 mins, plus avoid wind chill. We were not going to camp but others might.
Whole point of pix and post above is that this brand new toilet block has water all over the floor. Totally unacceptable by any normal decent standard. A bit of nous from the builder could have directed water away from the inside.
 

Jacko4650

One of Us
Ski Pass
May 15, 2014
3,966
8,119
363
With regards to 4), Vail owns and operates some of the biggest, busiest mtb operations in the world. So they do understand the business. It is not like they have forgotten about it. It will have been looked at in detail, and the fact that it hasn't happened means they think it is not viable. They don't have to share those reasons with us, could be many things, including environmental etc
The other thing to consider is that Australia is now the premium place for litigation, IMO, based on the number of times we have been sued by dills. We out-litigate the Yanks nowadays. Outdoor "Fun" is already on a tightrope because it almost always involves risk. Risk = litigation potential and as Insurance Companies slowly but progressively stop insuring where there is risk, businesses choose not to provide the service (fun) anymore. Ambulance Chasers are hiding in the wings, ready to pounce of anyone without cover, taking their homes, cars, bank balances and anything else they might have worked hard for to provide some fun if they don't have insurance cover. We Aussies are very complacent about lobbying our State Representatives to get the laws amended (eg: pay out ceilings and other constraints now applicable in the USA); we just choose less fun over letter writing, and the minute we have an accident, we start looking for someone to blame; someone to sue. Sad.
 
  • Like
  • Sad
Reactions: Kash and kiter

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
Ski Pass
Mar 3, 1999
71,412
49,344
1,563
Coastal suburban boonies.
The other thing to consider is that Australia is now the premium place for litigation, IMO, based on the number of times we have been sued by dills. We out-litigate the Yanks nowadays. Outdoor "Fun" is already on a tightrope because it almost always involves risk. Risk = litigation potential and as Insurance Companies slowly but progressively stop insuring where there is risk, businesses choose not to provide the service (fun) anymore. Ambulance Chasers are hiding in the wings, ready to pounce of anyone without cover, taking their homes, cars, bank balances and anything else they might have worked hard for to provide some fun if they don't have insurance cover. We Aussies are very complacent about lobbying our State Representatives to get the laws amended (eg: pay out ceilings and other constraints now applicable in the USA); we just choose less fun over letter writing, and the minute we have an accident, we start looking for someone to blame; someone to sue. Sad.
NSW Civil Liability Act.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
747
610
263
Northern Beaches
Is Perisher / Smiggins missing the boat with burgeoning MTB and summer activities in the region ? There are alot of commercial and club lodges that have done it tough in the last 2 years . im wondering if the perisher chamber of commerce and vail and governments could come together on this and help fill them up . The road to CP is really busy in summer season too surely the area could open up . Id love to enjoy a frothy with family and friends with lunch or evening dinner at the man or the smiggs pub out on the balcony on a lovely summer and autumn day and im sure im not the only one. Yes i know its all been done before and it was a dismal failure but times have most certainly changed

Yep, I agree!

I also want to note that what Kiter is saying that Perisher needs here are attractions like MTB. The pubs and accommodation mentioned are already existing.

This was discussed in the other thread. The consensus was that Perisher needs a central village and accomodation developed.

I didn't see the consensus that you're referring to?

Besides, it appears that this idea... is like going to the doctor and asking, "I'd like to lose weight", and the doctor telling you that, "The consensus approach for weight loss is that you'll need to buy a waffle iron and think happy thoughts."

The point is that while a village would be nice for village-y reasons, it's not essential to begin some summertime activation. The pubs and the beds are already there, and they're mostly empty. Some of those places could be humming if there were more activities on offer to attract more people to visit or to stay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kash, kiter and VSG

Chookfooter

Cranky Curmudgeon
Ski Pass
May 11, 2020
2,005
3,892
363
I'm guessing The Stables is not (or no longer) owned by Vail, but anyway, these two places seem to have been listed for a while now...

Screenshot_2021-11-11_21-11-30.png
Never was a Perisher property. The Odeids had an interest at some stage but Perisher never had an interest before or after Vail. Perisher only owns the lifts Blue Cow building and the Perisher centre, that's it. And the workshop at Smiggs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dropbear

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
Ski Pass
Mar 3, 1999
71,412
49,344
1,563
Coastal suburban boonies.
Yep, I agree!

I also want to note that what Kiter is saying that Perisher needs here are attractions like MTB. The pubs and accommodation mentioned are already existing.



I didn't see the consensus that you're referring to?

Besides, it appears that this idea... is like going to the doctor and asking, "I'd like to lose weight", and the doctor telling you that, "The consensus approach for weight loss is that you'll need to buy a waffle iron and think happy thoughts."

The point is that while a village would be nice for village-y reasons, it's not essential to begin some summertime activation. The pubs and the beds are already there, and they're mostly empty. Some of those places could be humming if there were more activities on offer to attract more people to visit or to stay.
At Thredbo in Summer the village is busy with people hanging out between activities. Where in Perisher would you hang out?
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
747
610
263
Northern Beaches

Jasper Schwarz

Young but not afraid
Ski Pass
Jun 18, 2017
3,552
12,935
363
Northern Beaches, Sydney,
Interesting thought.
Kindve a fair comment, because if they truely wanted to increase skier capacity in Australia, snowmaking seems like a fair smarter investment than upgrading chairlifts on what is already a pretty busy part of the mountain.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dawooduck

Telemark Phat

Pass the butter
Ski Pass
Jun 21, 2008
24,580
27,181
1,063
45
Jindabyne
www.telemarkphat.org

robbo mcs

A Local
Ski Pass
Sep 1, 2008
5,519
24,940
563
Kenthurst / Jindabyne
Another factor that has to be taken into account with MT P 6 upgrade is they are actually going to be greatly reducing the number of towers on the slopes by 50%, which will open things up, and should help safety as well. They are also planning to remove rocks, trees etc, to improve grooming capacity as well. That is kind of like Leichhardt upgrade, or Front Valley V8 upgrade. Both doubled capacity, but removed a lot of towers and removed t-bar tracks loaded with skiiers, so really probably made things safer.

So there are always a couple of sides to each story. Most lift upgrades are associated with other upgrades to the general area as well, removal of towers, removal of trees, rocks etc, better snowmaking etc.

It would be nice if they opened up new terrain, but I really can't see that happening, for many reasons
 

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
Ski Pass
Mar 3, 1999
71,412
49,344
1,563
Coastal suburban boonies.
Well that is pretty obvious :rolleyes:

However, no doubt the reason some sensible person posted it in this corner of the forums was because they felt it potentially had relevance to Perisher development.
It was the subsequent comments that piqued my response.

And, if it was what you suggest, can you explain its relevance when the Mt P 6 pack is replacing a double and triple - a notional 5 pack.

Warning: Any suggestion that detachables move more skiers than fixed grips will excite the nerds.
 

SnowTigger

Early Days
Ski Pass
Jan 23, 2022
44
58
18
Just “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.

A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.

All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:

NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.

And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!

Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!

NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_Heat
 

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
Ski Pass
Mar 3, 1999
71,412
49,344
1,563
Coastal suburban boonies.
Just “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.

A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.

All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:

NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.

And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!

Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!

NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_Heat
Is Thredbo in the same park as Perisher?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Telezacski

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
76,840
73,907
1,525
Mountains
Just “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.

A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.

All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:

NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.

And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!

Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!

NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_Heat

Not sure at all why NPWS still runs that sewer plant.

If Vail wants a year round village up there they will need a year round village facilities and maintenance department that includes all associated infrastructure.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
747
610
263
Northern Beaches
Just “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.

A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.

All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:

NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.

And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!

Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!

NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_Heat

The last thing Perisher Valley needs is to create a head lease run by a private corporation like Vail.

If the head lease was with an independent and democratic body, then yes, please!

But if not, then let's stick with NPWS. At least they're public.
 

Chookfooter

Cranky Curmudgeon
Ski Pass
May 11, 2020
2,005
3,892
363
NSW government wanted Vail to take over the head lease but Vail would only pay peanuts so the deal fell apart. Because of the way Perisher is set up with lodges spread out all over the shop with four resort areas and aging infrastructure they could see the costs for maintaining the resort would be not profitable, leave it with the taxpayer.
 

hipo

One off
Ski Pass
Jun 23, 2011
3,881
8,516
363
here and there
After seeing the current feedback from overseas, I think fewer people would be intetested in a Vail run head lease for Perisher.
I would think thete will be enough issues with staffing, accommodation and opening terrain to 7keep them busy for now
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dropbear

skimax

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Jul 25, 2000
33,809
9,700
1,025
Melbourne Australia
Vail would never ever take it on, Only way would be if they had approval to develop and sell 200 odd apartments and i dont think thats' their game .
The issue for Vail and i havent seen their accounts to be fair , will be free cashflow. A lot of acquisition of operating rights but the maintenance ( and expansion) of large capital infrastructure is another thing.
 

djam

One of Us
Apr 6, 2009
1,590
898
363
> Only way would be if they had approval to develop and sell 200 odd apartments and i dont think thats' their game .

That is exactly the Vail Resorts model.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
747
610
263
Northern Beaches
NSW government wanted Vail to take over the head lease but Vail would only pay peanuts so the deal fell apart. Because of the way Perisher is set up with lodges spread out all over the shop with four resort areas and aging infrastructure they could see the costs for maintaining the resort would be not profitable, leave it with the taxpayer.

I agree with you, but wanted to add for clarity's sake: I'd suggest we differentiate between the ski hill (the "resort") and whatever we want to call the village or settlement that is in the valley.

Perisher Valley shouldn't be seen as a resort, and it shouldn't be managed for corporate profit. If it were, the accommodation would all invaribly end up in private hands to be let out at the highest possible rate.

Instead, Perisher Valley should be seen as a community, and managed for social, environmental, and economic sustainability and regeneration.
 
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass

Log in

or Log in using
Remove ads with a
Ski Pass