Funny that the highlight of Perisher in summer is a cafe that only takes cash for its over-priced Hamburgers.
Perisher Master Plan
- Thread starter The_Heat
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To echo the comments I made elsewhere...
Perisher in summer has little to offer.
Vail should:
- Build a whole lot of condos down in Bullocks Flat and flog them
- Put a wave pool in the middle of it
- Build a MTB park skiers right of the skitube
- Run MTBers up the skitube
That way both summer and winter activities are catered for, they get good use of the investment they've already made in the skitube and they can fund the whole thing through the sale of the condos.They lose money on the tube in winter, running it in the other 3 seasons means they only lose more money.
Vail makes their money by selling condos, you need a reason for people to want to buy them at elevated prices.I kinda like that its quiet in the Summer. Especially round at Guthega!
With regards to 4), Vail owns and operates some of the biggest, busiest mtb operations in the world. So they do understand the business. It is not like they have forgotten about it. It will have been looked at in detail, and the fact that it hasn't happened means they think it is not viable. They don't have to share those reasons with us, could be many things, including environmental etcQuote 5) Snowies Iconic Trail and the much loved Porcupine Rocks viewing platform concept will bring a little more life to summer in Perisher.
Only been to Porc Rocks once every 4 years or so including Wed last week as the cloudbase lowered to the 1990 m level of the Duncan trig. Cut across from the Wheatley Link 2.3 km trail and met the Ranger and his landscaping offsider who were measuring up for some P Rocks track improvements. Negotiated the boggy section on Wheatley to join trail from Perisher and onto the rocks with 50 + metres of solid ice banks up against the rocks on W side. The wind had scoured out the ice making a 300 mm gap next to the tors so we could squeeze through. Then back to Perisher which was dead at 3 pm. No chance of hitching back up the hill to the car so ended up an 11 km round trip.
As for a viewing platform, I like it as it is. No desire to pay for the view. Ah, it's capitalism in action again. Nuff said. Saw only 4 bods on the walk and one flame robin, always a treat.
Helicopters, glamping and more beds: how the Snowies will become a summer tourism spot
The Snowy Mountains and Jindabyne will be transformed into an all-year playground with increased accommodation, glamping and helicopter commutes to Perisher, Thredbo and Charlotte Pass under a 40-year state government plan.www.smh.com.au
IIRC I posted that when it came out. And do you think that the govt will get it right? On the same trip last week as above pix, here's the new dunny at Island Bend airstrip when it rains. Looks OK on outside but inside......Helicopters, glamping and more beds: how the Snowies will become a summer tourism spot
The Snowy Mountains and Jindabyne will be transformed into an all-year playground with increased accommodation, glamping and helicopter commutes to Perisher, Thredbo and Charlotte Pass under a 40-year state government plan.
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reminds me of an expression we use at work to sum up much of what we do: ‘it’s a little bit shit’IIRC I posted that when it came out. And to think that the govt will get it right. On the same trip last week as above pix, here's the new dunny at Island Bend airstrip when it rains. Looks OK on outside but inside......
I often think that 'open air' designs like that of public infrastructure are to stop, prevent camping inside them. And the odour control.IIRC I posted that when it came out. And to think that the govt will get it right. On the same trip last week as above pix, here's the new dunny at Island Bend airstrip when it rains. Looks OK on outside but inside......
and then, interesting to see how the 2002 ambitions panned out, partic with snowmaking.
and to finish this morning's presentation... competitive skiing facilities. Remember this was 2002.
Got trapped in a storm once at Ngarigo doing TVT. Dunny building big enough to have a seat along the inside wall so as to sit rather than stand for 90 mins, plus avoid wind chill. We were not going to camp but others might.
Whole point of pix and post above is that this brand new toilet block has water all over the floor. Totally unacceptable by any normal decent standard. A bit of nous from the builder could have directed water away from the inside.
The other thing to consider is that Australia is now the premium place for litigation, IMO, based on the number of times we have been sued by dills. We out-litigate the Yanks nowadays. Outdoor "Fun" is already on a tightrope because it almost always involves risk. Risk = litigation potential and as Insurance Companies slowly but progressively stop insuring where there is risk, businesses choose not to provide the service (fun) anymore. Ambulance Chasers are hiding in the wings, ready to pounce of anyone without cover, taking their homes, cars, bank balances and anything else they might have worked hard for to provide some fun if they don't have insurance cover. We Aussies are very complacent about lobbying our State Representatives to get the laws amended (eg: pay out ceilings and other constraints now applicable in the USA); we just choose less fun over letter writing, and the minute we have an accident, we start looking for someone to blame; someone to sue. Sad.
Yep, I agree!
I also want to note that what Kiter is saying that Perisher needs here are attractions like MTB. The pubs and accommodation mentioned are already existing.
I didn't see the consensus that you're referring to?
Besides, it appears that this idea... is like going to the doctor and asking, "I'd like to lose weight", and the doctor telling you that, "The consensus approach for weight loss is that you'll need to buy a waffle iron and think happy thoughts."
The point is that while a village would be nice for village-y reasons, it's not essential to begin some summertime activation. The pubs and the beds are already there, and they're mostly empty. Some of those places could be humming if there were more activities on offer to attract more people to visit or to stay.
I'm guessing The Stables is not (or no longer) owned by Vail, but anyway, these two places seem to have been listed for a while now...
Never was a Perisher property. The Odeids had an interest at some stage but Perisher never had an interest before or after Vail. Perisher only owns the lifts Blue Cow building and the Perisher centre, that's it. And the workshop at Smiggs.I'm guessing The Stables is not (or no longer) owned by Vail, but anyway, these two places seem to have been listed for a while now...
At Thredbo in Summer the village is busy with people hanging out between activities. Where in Perisher would you hang out?
At the Eyre Cafe, with SMSkier!
Or in the car park with Normo and friends!
Letter: Does Vail invest in dangerous skiing?
The billboards across Vail marketing the upcoming installation of another six-pack chairlift at Chair 7 have been triggering a thought I can’t get out of my head:
www.vaildaily.com
Well, do they ?Letter: Does Vail invest in dangerous skiing?
The billboards across Vail marketing the upcoming installation of another six-pack chairlift at Chair 7 have been triggering a thought I can’t get out of my head:
www.vaildaily.com
Vail's Australian resorts are getting a hard time from Vail for having to high a workplace accident rate.Letter: Does Vail invest in dangerous skiing?
The billboards across Vail marketing the upcoming installation of another six-pack chairlift at Chair 7 have been triggering a thought I can’t get out of my head:
www.vaildaily.com
Crikeys
Collisions figuring?
Snow, weather and on slope hazards are a big factor, couldn't compare to Colorado but maybe perhaps Eastern States.
Rocks and snow snow snakes not really part of NA skiing.
Another factor that has to be taken into account with MT P 6 upgrade is they are actually going to be greatly reducing the number of towers on the slopes by 50%, which will open things up, and should help safety as well. They are also planning to remove rocks, trees etc, to improve grooming capacity as well. That is kind of like Leichhardt upgrade, or Front Valley V8 upgrade. Both doubled capacity, but removed a lot of towers and removed t-bar tracks loaded with skiiers, so really probably made things safer.
So there are always a couple of sides to each story. Most lift upgrades are associated with other upgrades to the general area as well, removal of towers, removal of trees, rocks etc, better snowmaking etc.
It would be nice if they opened up new terrain, but I really can't see that happening, for many reasons
are you able to elaborate? what sort of workplace accidents are more prevalent here? could it be related to a tendency (in vic anyway) to hire lots of party animals with little snow experience? any other likely factors?
Well that is pretty obvious
However, no doubt the reason some sensible person posted it in this corner of the forums was because they felt it potentially had relevance to Perisher development.
It was the subsequent comments that piqued my response.Well that is pretty obvious
However, no doubt the reason some sensible person posted it in this corner of the forums was because they felt it potentially had relevance to Perisher development.
And, if it was what you suggest, can you explain its relevance when the Mt P 6 pack is replacing a double and triple - a notional 5 pack.
Warning: Any suggestion that detachables move more skiers than fixed grips will excite the nerds.
I'm just a worker, but the vibe was about on snow accidents.
Just “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.
A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.
All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:
SLOPES - The Ski Lodges Organisation of Perisher, Smiggins & Guthega
The SLOPES organisation represents the ski club lodges at Perisher Valley, Smiggin Holes and Guthega Village in New South Wales Australia.
slopes.org.au
NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.
And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!
Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!
NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_Heat
Is Thredbo in the same park as Perisher?Just “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.
A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.
All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:
SLOPES - The Ski Lodges Organisation of Perisher, Smiggins & Guthega
The SLOPES organisation represents the ski club lodges at Perisher Valley, Smiggin Holes and Guthega Village in New South Wales Australia.
slopes.org.au
NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.
And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!
Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!
NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_HeatJust “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.
A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.
All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:
SLOPES - The Ski Lodges Organisation of Perisher, Smiggins & Guthega
The SLOPES organisation represents the ski club lodges at Perisher Valley, Smiggin Holes and Guthega Village in New South Wales Australia.
slopes.org.au
NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.
And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!
Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!
NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_Heat
Not sure at all why NPWS still runs that sewer plant.
If Vail wants a year round village up there they will need a year round village facilities and maintenance department that includes all associated infrastructure.
Just “bumping” this back on-thread. No offence @Telemark Phat . An Operations issue isn’t likely to affect Strategy on master plan.
A operational focus on less injuries is best practice. I work for a utility and the focus is all safety. The stalled MP is all about not having long term security. No long term lease, no major investment.
All the club lodges have been in favour of a master head lease for years see:
SLOPES - The Ski Lodges Organisation of Perisher, Smiggins & Guthega
The SLOPES organisation represents the ski club lodges at Perisher Valley, Smiggin Holes and Guthega Village in New South Wales Australia.
slopes.org.au
NSW National Parks have their greedy motivations not to want club leases to transfer under a head lease. They lose a direct cash cow they jack up each year.
And NSWNP I understand want Vail to pay for a major new sewerage plant - even though that’s what all our park entry fees, and lease fees, are for!
Victoria Nat Parks clearly overcame, or were sensibly overruled, to allow modern resorts. Just look - Buller year round, Falls same, Hotham accom expansion. All moving ahead!
NSWNP have blocked sensible outcomes for 30 years at Perisher.
Whoever becomes the new State Pollie for Monaro - election this weekend peeps - should be put on this issue.
@The_Heat
The last thing Perisher Valley needs is to create a head lease run by a private corporation like Vail.
If the head lease was with an independent and democratic body, then yes, please!
But if not, then let's stick with NPWS. At least they're public.NSW government wanted Vail to take over the head lease but Vail would only pay peanuts so the deal fell apart. Because of the way Perisher is set up with lodges spread out all over the shop with four resort areas and aging infrastructure they could see the costs for maintaining the resort would be not profitable, leave it with the taxpayer.
Vail would never ever take it on, Only way would be if they had approval to develop and sell 200 odd apartments and i dont think thats' their game .
The issue for Vail and i havent seen their accounts to be fair , will be free cashflow. A lot of acquisition of operating rights but the maintenance ( and expansion) of large capital infrastructure is another thing.
> Only way would be if they had approval to develop and sell 200 odd apartments and i dont think thats' their game .
That is exactly the Vail Resorts model.
I agree with you, but wanted to add for clarity's sake: I'd suggest we differentiate between the ski hill (the "resort") and whatever we want to call the village or settlement that is in the valley.
Perisher Valley shouldn't be seen as a resort, and it shouldn't be managed for corporate profit. If it were, the accommodation would all invaribly end up in private hands to be let out at the highest possible rate.
Instead, Perisher Valley should be seen as a community, and managed for social, environmental, and economic sustainability and regeneration.
