VIC Alpine Photos from my spring hike .

Ubiquitous Steve

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For the benefit of Xplora......

I will let forum make their own judgement....on Mr Ts comments regarding the difficulty in negotiating overgrown tracks...


Xplora you are showing that you don't like to deal with things in a robust but professional manner.

I will be in West Kiewa shortly and perhaps some photos of the section of Track may help you to make a better judgement in regard to one specific section of Diamantina Spur...

Personal attack .....you have come out again with one.

People don't walk any track at their own risk...such a nonsense of a statement......

Team Bears don't mention any other track in or around the high plains as having potential danger if one should slip.

We are all well aware of the Falls to Hotham Iconic Walk...and we are aware that Parks are talking of possible modifications themselves to this track.

We only ask that dangerous areas are properly dealt with.
A fall with a heavy pack in this section will cause a serious tumble and broken bones.
Parks Vic want bushwalkers to stick to formed tracks..they don't encourage folk to go bush bashing forming new tracks etc.
"Stick to existing tracks"
Where existing tracks are dangerous .....it ain't really bright not to recognise the problem and to take remedial action.Litigation will occur if an accident happens in this instance.Its a foreseeable possibility that a slip occurring here will result in a serious injury.Anybody rolling down the hill on this section can rely on Team Bears to testify that this hazard was known to Parks and they failed to do anything to correct the hazard!!

We don't have a problem with the entire Diamantina Spur....we have a problem with about 50 meters of it.

Glad that Team Bears can help you Xplora ...we will most certainly supply you with photos of the hazardous section. We have a little work to complete down in West Kiewa then we can whizz up and get some pics for the benefit of this forum...Cheers
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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For the benefit of Xplora......

I will let forum make their own judgement....on Mr Ts comments regarding the difficulty in negotiating overgrown tracks...


Xplora you are showing that you don't like to deal with things in a robust but professional manner.

I will be in West Kiewa shortly and perhaps some photos of the section of Track may help you to make a better judgement in regard to one specific section of Diamantina Spur...

Personal attack .....you have come out again with one.

People don't walk any track at their own risk...such a nonsense of a statement......

Team Bears don't mention any other track in or around the high plains as having potential danger if one should slip.

We are all well aware of the Falls to Hotham Iconic Walk...and we are aware that Parks are talking of possible modifications themselves to this track.

We only ask that dangerous areas are properly dealt with.
A fall with a heavy pack in this section will cause a serious tumble and broken bones.
Parks Vic want bushwalkers to stick to formed tracks..they don't encourage folk to go bush bashing forming new tracks etc.
"Stick to existing tracks"
Where existing tracks are dangerous .....it ain't really bright not to recognise the problem and to take remedial action.Litigation will occur if an accident happens in this instance.Its a foreseeable possibility that a slip occurring here will result in a serious injury.Anybody rolling down the hill on this section can rely on Team Bears to testify that this hazard was known to Parks and they failed to do anything to correct the hazard!!

We don't have a problem with the entire Diamantina Spur....we have a problem with about 50 meters of it.

Glad that Team Bears can help you Xplora ...we will most certainly supply you with photos of the hazardous section. We have a little work to complete down in West Kiewa then we can whizz up and get some pics for the benefit of this forum...Cheers
I walk all tracks/routes at my own risk when I am trekking solo. That is why I carry a PLB.
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Back to the topic that I started, children.......The Cross cut saw 4.11.17.
cae008-014.jpg
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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The risks of bushwalking in the Vic. Alps with a heavy pack , solo self guided route navigation, bush bashing and lunatic vertical rock scrambling are all risks that I , an experienced bushwalker , undertake at my own peril. I don't want a nanny state system of category 2 & 3 tracks. If the hike is tough then I will do it and report on it as I see it. If there are no photos of a taxing section of the route then that is proof enough that I had more than enough to deal with at the time .
The proposed FHAC realignment of the Diamantina spur track will ruin its wild characteristics and also trash the lovely undeveloped campsite on High Knob. Next month I am taking people out there to see it before it is turned into a soft boy thing track with soft boy thing luxury lodges , a soft boy thingy helipad etc. all aimed at fat cashed up bogans who cannot hack a bit of adventure , calculated risk and effort in the wild !
Team.Bears fully support most commments and obs made by Mr T.
A chain exists so folk can safely cross the swollen Big River on Alpine Walking Track (T Spur and Dunne Spur.)
Like wise a recognised hazard ....only asking for consideration for one fifty meters of track alignment.....granted that some switch backs will lengthen the track and lead to a gentler gradient in this section.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/11/13/14/18/man-killed-by-woodchipper#
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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Please pics of Queen,King and SN .....we love those spurs as much as the Crosscut.Do parks have signs grade 1,2,3,4 on those trails and are they registered on maps...just so we know o_O.
But pretty please photos of the spurs because we all want a challenge occasionally and we hear that only very fit folk could succeed as tracks have had little or no maintenance.But Xplora tells us it's more complex as a track graded 4 is a track that gets no maintenance.Good work ...now not just pics of the highlights and peaks but the fun part of the slog to the top.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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I can hack the crab crawl rocky cliff section on the Diamantina spur. It is probably a category 4. Bring it on !
Yes that's it ....it's the crab crawl .....that's the best description so far.
Team Bears can identify with the technique.....we were just scarred should the unroped Bears take a tumble.So if Mr T tells u a crab crawl was required for a certain section then I think I have made my point!
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Please pics of Queen,King and SN .....we love those spurs as much as the Crosscut.Do parks have signs grade 1,2,3,4 on those trails and are they registered on maps...just so we know o_O.
But pretty please photos of the spurs because we all want a challenge occasionally and we hear that only very fit folk could succeed as tracks have had little or no maintenance.But Xplora tells us it's more complex as a track graded 4 is a track that gets no maintenance.Good work ...now not just pics of the highlights and peaks but the fun part of the slog to the top.
There is no route on King spur anymore. It is a category 5.. I met someone who tried to descend to King hut by that route and he said "Never again!".
 
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Legs Akimbo

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The Force is strong in you dung beetle.
THank you. I think dung beetles perform a very useful function. And I have never seen an obviously unhappy dung beetle. They are content in their work.
No mention of Huts or toilets by myself....just a mention of 50 meters of track....that could be dealt with for the benefit of all..again Five Zero. Meters of track no misprint not 500 meters just 50 m.
I know. I was reminding you as a public service.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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THank you. I think dung beetles perform a very useful function. And I have never seen an obviously unhappy dung beetle. They are content in their work.

I know. I was reminding you as a public service.
Oh we love your advice ....what happened to the litigation interest....seems to be focused in the wrong areas.But we do appreciate your input.

And xplora has done well by explaining the meaning of sarcasm!He has a cult following by High School Groups it appears that follow his informative and timely posts.
Legs did you agree with Mr Ts observation regarding the Stanley Name Spur.What do you think it should be rated in the Parks Management Strategy?Those logs on the track that the poor folk cannnot get over....and Xplora bear "rating"them as they bushbash around and make their own tracks up some part of the Spur.
Cheers
 

Legs Akimbo

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Oh we love your advice ....what happened to the litigation interest....seems to be focused in the wrong areas.But we do appreciate your input.

And xplora has done well by explaining the meaning of sarcasm!He has a cult following by High School Groups it appears that follow his informative and timely posts.
Legs did you agree with Mr Ts observation regarding the Stanley Name Spur.What do you think it should be rated in the Parks Management Strategy?Those logs on the track that the poor folk cannnot get over....and Xplora bear "rating"them as they bushbash around and make their own tracks up some part of the Spur.
Cheers
Gosh. So many questions. I thought you were the expert.

In NSW (at least in my day) we just decide where to go and go there. We don't have this love of bureaucracy.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Gosh. So many questions. I thought you were the expert.

In NSW (at least in my day) we just decide where to go and go there. We don't have this love of bureaucracy.[/
Do you like Dung Beetles Legs Akimbo or is that a legal joke that Mr.T had with you.
Cheers.
Perhaps you are and expert on something other than legal matters.
I wish I knew more about the lifestyles of Dung Beetles....The ecosystem is dependant on their activities.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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IMG_0789.JPG
Quite so...it's Mr Ts thread...we thank Mr T for his pics and comments pertaining to the difficulty of negotiating tracks in the Great Alpine National Park.
We can all see that some tracks now provide greater difficulty thanks to these posts.
I am sure we can all agree on this.:thumbs:
Perhaps a pic to show our appreciation of this thread.....just see if Team Bears can facilitate ......
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Quite so...it's Mr Ts thread...we thank Mr T for his pics and comments pertaining to the difficulty of negotiating tracks in the Great Alpine National Park.
We can all see that some tracks now provide greater difficulty thanks to these posts.
I am sure we can all agree on this.:thumbs:
Perhaps a pic to show our appreciation of this thread.....just see if Team Bears can facilitate ......
Team bears could take the chain saw up the Howitt spur. That would be smashing.Have a go at Queen's spur track too. I did my chainsaw maintenance and safe operation course yesterday at the Arborists' department at Fairfield TAFE. It is hard work using a chainsaw. You have to pay attention or you might end up being called lefty ;-P .
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Day 3, Nov. 6th 2017. Fog at Mac. Springs.It was cold and foggy going over Mt. Howitt to reach the Howitt spur.I know that route in all weather so I got some newbies at Mac. Springs who were also taking that route to follow me .
cae009-019.jpg
Oh that's a nice picture....we unfortunately cannot do more than we are doing in regard to occasional clearing.We suggest that a light weight Saw with a 14 or 16 inch bar is a tool that can make one hell of a difference to our tracks.Perhaps the odd work trip thrown by interested parties may be useful to keep some tracks open....just a suggestion.But we are ganna hear about litigation issues again and working without authorisation .

Perhaps interested parties could just throw in a work trip now and again where they sacrifice a long bushwalk for a little work Route to the ridge line ...whatever.

I do understand those comments in regard to camping at Macsprings and the crowds that can be encountered...it's more than overused by bushwalkers .
I was wondering if Mac Springs had a water tank on its Hut or dunny....could be useful and cause minimal visible disturbance.

Minimal track markers seem appropriate in the area of Speculation Crosscut or Mt Howitt.I would agree that pitching a tent at a quieter location than MSprings has merit.

Open fires at SN Campsite and at Speculation Campsite maybe appropriate but stoves seem appropriate in other areas at this altitude.In some places greater fuel loads can be reduced by the odd fire and do little damage compared to the wildfires that have ripped through this area previously.

More fires will occur ...and some severe ones can be expected it's just what we can expect.

Team Bears have no issues with the so called Wilderness Status of the Razor and Viking Area...perhaps limited track clearing and the odd track markers at important navigation points is justified so folk stay on tracks and don't wander all over the shop.We certainly accept that some areas need to be advertised as only fit for competent parties with leaders than can navigate well.The problem is if folk start coming along the AWT and then get "bushed" by a section too technically difficult for them...Well I am thinking of the Viking to Speculation Section....so a little compromise is necessary to help out.Minimal signage at important track junction or route junctions.Damed if you do and dammed if you don't.I don't think the animals get too distraught from the occasional yellow triangle or disc.

Hopefully Parks Vic is mobolizing it's volunteer army at Track Clearance Works ...it needs to go into overdrive with these operations to keep up with the sad state of affairs.
 

Xplora

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Oh that's a nice picture....we unfortunately cannot do more than we are doing in regard to occasional clearing.We suggest that a light weight Saw with a 14 or 16 inch bar is a tool that can make one hell of a difference to our tracks.Perhaps the odd work trip thrown by interested parties may be useful to keep some tracks open....just a suggestion.But we are ganna hear about litigation issues again and working without authorisation .
This would be the wrong word in this circumstance. Prosecution is more appropriate -

National Park Regulations 2013

s48. Interference with vegetation prohibited
A person must not cut, fell, pick, remove, take, damage or destroy any vegetation in a park.

Penalty: 20 penalty units.

I would suggest a better course would be to not advertise your intentions prior and not post evidence of your offence but you can do as you wish. Only a suggestion.
With regard to chainsaw selection for Mr. T now he has his ticket, I would not go less than a 20 inch bar for clearing trees from the road. If the tree is too big for that saw then it too big to move on your own once cut unless you have a chain or winch. That said, a lot can be done with smaller saws but there is a greater risk of getting it stuck. Small lightweight saws are good if you have to carry them and distance but that should not be the case if you only need it to get in or out of a spot. You get what you pay for but if it is not going to be used a great deal then it may not matter however I would ensure it works each time before you leave home. Steve uses Echo which are pretty good. Around here Husky seems to be the most popular. There are often some good second hand saws around which would mean a better saw than you can buy at Bunnings may be affordable. Buy a good fuel container (one with the bar oil container attached) and expect it all to stink out your car.

You would have been shown the use of wedges when cutting. My chainsaw tip is if you do not have a fancy wedge, put a small twig./branch into the cut above your saw and break it off to form a wedge. Do it in several points and this will prevent the log from pinching.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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All good advice from Xplora.Pinching bars is a major hazard when you first start working...over using wedges is a good idea.Having another bar(old worn and a sharp second chain ) can be more than useful should one jamb a bar and chain.
High visibility tape to warn drivers of bits you cannot cut that present a hazard for approaching drivers.
Stakes in the ground can be removed sometimes with a mattock ..a rake hoe very useful at Camp and to clear Road of bits of fallen tree that may spike through tyres .
A long crow bar is invaluable to move things particularly when by oneself up bush.

Watch starter cord wear....if it gets frayed then go to dealer and get it replaced.

You can hide saws in vehicle when you go bush but the two stoke smell is not good for carrying them inside vehicle....thus a roof rack and maybe a little home made box to store things.

Saw size is a consideration....my second hand 064 Stihl worth $900 with 24 inch was a good investment...just difficult to start for a less than muscular person....gives you the clout with most fallen trees.Big saws are good but kick back is something to watch....once engaged in Log and saw revving hard they are going to cut most larger diam timber in 30sec .with the power they put out.

But echo 310 /16 inch bar ..new approx $300 is a Saw I use just about all the time now.

When cutting into crappy soiled wood or final cut to soil of a fallen tree on Log ....maybe change to old but sharp chain and if you hit road it doesnot matter as you change back to your sharp new chain.That last bit of wood can be a prick to get thro before you can get Section out of the way.

Saw from dealer is best as they will service it ,sharpen chains,replace and order parts.Also get them to grease sprocket tip every now and again.

Plastic wedges are cheap get about three and leave in vehicle permanently.Sometimes better to bring wedge and axe out before u make major assault on tree trunk after running around cutting annoying branches off so you have no distractions or obstacles around your victim.You will chomp thro some wedges but that's why they are used.

Xplora has a point with litigation aspects ....so if you see something dangerous around your Campsite better to inform the Parks so they don't get sued should a widow maker fall through somebody's tent or land on their picnic.Its our responsibility to assist Parks where ever possible...after all the taxes payers are funding there operation.:whistle::whistle::whistle:
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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All good advice from Xplora.Pinching bars is a major hazard when you first start working...over using wedges is a good idea.Having another bar(old worn and a sharp second chain ) can be more than useful should one jamb a bar and chain.
High visibility tape to warn drivers of bits you cannot cut that present a hazard for approaching drivers.
Stakes in the ground can be removed sometimes with a mattock ..a rake hoe very useful at Camp and to clear Road of bits of fallen tree that may spike through tyres .
A long crow bar is invaluable to move things particularly when by oneself up bush.

Watch starter cord wear....if it gets frayed then go to dealer and get it replaced.

You can hide saws in vehicle when you go bush but the two stoke smell is not good for carrying them inside vehicle....thus a roof rack and maybe a little home made box to store things.

Saw size is a consideration....my second hand 064 Stihl worth $900 with 24 inch was a good investment...just difficult to start for a less than muscular person....gives you the clout with most fallen trees.Big saws are good but kick back is something to watch....once engaged in Log and saw revving hard they are going to cut most larger diam timber in 30sec .with the power they put out.

But echo 310 /16 inch bar ..new approx $300 is a Saw I use just about all the time now.

When cutting into crappy soiled wood or final cut to soil of a fallen tree on Log ....maybe change to old but sharp chain and if you hit road it doesnot matter as you change back to your sharp new chain.That last bit of wood can be a prick to get thro before you can get Section out of the way.

Saw from dealer is best as they will service it ,sharpen chains,replace and order parts.Also get them to grease sprocket tip every now and again.

Plastic wedges are cheap get about three and leave in vehicle permanently.Sometimes better to bring wedge and axe out before u make major assault on tree trunk after running around cutting annoying branches off so you have no distractions or obstacles around your victim.You will chomp thro some wedges but that's why they are used.

Xplora has a point with litigation aspects ....so if you see something dangerous around your Campsite better to inform the Parks so they don't get sued should a widow maker fall through somebody's tent or land on their picnic.Its our responsibility to assist Parks where ever possible...after all the taxes payers are funding there operation.:whistle::whistle::whistle:
We were not shown how to use wedges. We learned how to disassemble the chainsaw, clean it , take it apart , put it back together again and sharpen it. Then we went out and did some vertical and horizontal cutting through logs of many sizes. I think a $300 model with a 16 inch bar would do me. We were not shown how to mix the fuel for a 2 stroke internal combustion engine.
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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Quite so...it's Mr Ts thread...we thank Mr T for his pics and comments pertaining to the difficulty of negotiating tracks in the Great Alpine National Park.
We can all see that some tracks now provide greater difficulty thanks to these posts.
I am sure we can all agree on this.:thumbs:
Perhaps a pic to show our appreciation of this thread.....just see if Team Bears can facilitate ......
Here is a similar image that I captured myself rather than using a generic www photo , taken few years back looking Eastwards from Mt. Howitt Summit West. This was on a March Labour day long weekend 2015 VNPA trip .
Looking  towards  Mac. Spring ,  east  from  Mt Howitt  summit  west.1725 M..jpg
 
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Ubiquitous Steve

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We were not shown how to use wedges. We learned how to disassemble the chainsaw, clean it , take it apart , put it back together again and sharpen it. Then we went out and did some vertical and horizontal cutting through logs of many sizes. I think a $300 model with a 16 inch bar would do me. We were not shown how to mix the fuel for a 2 stroke internal combustion engine.
Some of the stihl specials are tempting but watch the grade of chain that's run on their bars....the little echo 310 is a reasonable Saw according to my dealer /motor mower man etc...they tell me that the smaller stilhls on special run a smaller grade chain and are not happy with it.Others on this forum have more specific knowledge than I do.Just watch what you buy.Just experiment with those wedges.....run Saw into Log about half way then drive wedge into the top of the cut leaving bar in the cut....end of wedge doesnot hit bar....then continue sawing ...now Log may fall away and bar will swing free ....if Log closes on wedge then wack it out with axe....then it may freely fall.Just practice and start using those little plastic thingies.Idea is to get wedge in before any closing begins.....The smaller saws are lighter and much more easy to control...there kick back is not like the bigger saws.If you cut firewood stick the bar straight down on the small Log and watch that the chain doesnot crab it and pull it back into the Saw itself.Just practice on smaller things then do a few fallen moderate trees taking as much time as you need to work safely.
Find some skilled guys to practice with when you get a chance.Or if you see a Log that others have cut but it may need more cut off it to widen the roadway...then practice on it.
Poles across the roadway will continue to slide as you cut the lower end off...be very carefull that they are stable and don't slide like a torpedo on to you or you vehicle ...sometimes they don't slide till a few mins after you work on them.
Even catch up with Xplora when you are over his way and see if he can give you a work out and teach you some skilful techniques.
Checkout internet..for using Saw and I think those wedges have two different sides ?See what Internet says on these.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Oh thanks....my descriptions are not the best...thank you.Thats a good start for Mr T...
Team Bears are self taught but well we made a lot of mistakes and jammed a lot of bars and managed to keep out of trouble....and only started using wedges after one year!!
I just don't want anybody to get injuries..... or to develop some skills after a litany of mistakes as I have made over several years...

I am very pleased Mr T is ganna do some of those 4x4 accessible trips....and we will all benefit every time he gets his Saw out to administer justice to naughty fallen debri.
Technical things could be referred to the professionals over in the Winter Woodstack Thread....those dudes know their business and have a wealth of technical knowledge.
 

Xplora

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Finding a spot to get the blade all the way through without burying it in the dirt is the key to a log on the ground. It may be hard to roll it over. I am surprised at how rudimentary this course was but it is not hard to learn how to mix fuel. Wedges on the other hand is so basic to chainsaw use. There is a great deal to learn from experience and that is they way it is generally done. Impossible to run through every scenario but thanks Steve for offering my services. You not feeling up to that yourself considering you guys are such good pals and live close by? Anyway, always happy to help those in need if they ask.
 

Ubiquitous Steve

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Finding a spot to get the blade all the way through without burying it in the dirt is the key to a log on the ground. It may be hard to roll it over. I am surprised at how rudimentary this course was but it is not hard to learn how to mix fuel. Wedges on the other hand is so basic to chainsaw use. There is a great deal to learn from experience and that is they way it is generally done. Impossible to run through every scenario but thanks Steve for offering my services. You not feeling up to that yourself considering you guys are such good pals and live close by? Anyway, always happy to help those in need if they ask.
I am more than happy to help out....but well I think you are probably better skilled than I in chainsaw use and sharpening.Yes sometimes cut where a Hollow exists underneath Log ,maybe put small piece of wood between rd and the Log to prevent Saw from hitting it.
Then the Log may be to Big to move far....so I roll it (after I have made cuts 90%thro )and cut the underneath side that is rolled to the top.Then I may be able to move the small sections with crow bar by chocking and or rolling them off rd way.Vehicle can pull to a limited extent in low Range 1st with a snig chain and importantly something to absorb the shock on the vehicle.....like and old tyre ....you will see them by side of Highway ....just like a big rubber band.That way your drive train is protected from the shock and grab as you pull a short distance to move a block this way or that

By side of road ....dig out soil and Rocks under Log or branch with whatever u have axe,shovel ,stick etc. put a little block of wood in the gap and carefully cut so the chain never contacts the soil.

I am waffling on I suppose.....if you cannot get snig chain around Log....then drill a hole ,place in a coach bolt ...well into sound wood...put a flat tape sling/extension needed.....never ever a snatching strap....secure to vehicle and drive slowly so Log rotates say 30 dogs....not and more than 45 degs or bolt will fly off.distort or sling will slip off.Aways dampen down bolt so it cannot fly thro air.So protect yourself and vehicle by dampening and never get in the line of possible throw when standing around watching vehicle pull on this bolt.So you need a ring spanner to tighten bolt and to remove it.If necessary drill another hole...put bolt in this new spot and again rotate it say 30 deg.
A really simple system but highly effective when Log is slightly embedded in the ground after it's fallen...you must observe extreme caution with anything that will cause a projectile to fly...dont use a bungy cord (snatch strap) but use a non elastic tape with eyes which is stronger than most wire ropes..
 

Mister Tee on XC Skis

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There is no route on King spur anymore. It is a category 5.. I met someone who tried to descend to King hut by that route and he said "Never again!".

I stand corrected regarding King Spur. I was up bushwalking at Mt. Speculation this week( 27 & 28/11/17) and a number of Timbertop groups ascended King Spur in a thunder storm. One of their teachers said they use the spur 2-3 times each green season. They leave a communications booklet in a plastic bottle at the bottom of the spur. The "track" is located at the King River feeder stream just before you cross the last bridge on the Speculation road coming from the Mt. Stirling circuit road before you enter the Alpine Nat. Park.It is not far from the intersection of King Basin Road and Speculation road. I was told there is quite a bit of rock climbing involved and the school groups never descend, only ascend the King Spur.

The Speculation road from The top of "the Staircase" out to Camp Creek has some very big puddles and some steep narrow rocky sections with loose rocks, ( some of which should be avoided, being the size of a rugby ball and all) but overall I could get my RAV4 from Lake Cobbler to Camp Creek if I had to and drive carefully and use very low gears for the gnarly rough bits.

Camp Creek is flowing well and photos of the sunrise in a clear sky from Mt. Speculation's summit will be provided when the film is developed. Going up Muesli spur is character building and muesli for breakfast does help with ascending this 4 km piece of relentless crab crawling torture. I was reminded of the T spur and other forms of suffering and strenuous and sweaty spur climbs in humid weather.
 
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Mister Tee on XC Skis

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