Qantas Freq Flyer points use

gareth_oau

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Stratus

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Looks as if Qantas are continuing to feathering their nest with charges when using QF freq flyer points for bookings.
https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/qantas-frequent-flyer-rip-off/

Note. I don't know how long this link will stay active.

Good read, and not surprising given the amount of bonus points that you can earn these days. Although the article is a little sensationalised and there are actually no new changes since 2016.

The best approach to redeemimg points with Qantas is to not assume you'll get the same level of value for every route/ticket. Spend a little time searching for interesting routes logged in on the QFF portal and you'll easily see what type of additional payment is required. At the end of the day, the value of classic rewards is relative to what the paid alternative is at the time. Points required for a route remain stable and only availability fluctuates, so often they are a great way to secure last minute domestic flights.

The general sentiment is if you're looking for value, steer well clear of "points plus pay" purchases.
 

oldgeezer

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The general sentiment is if you're looking for value, steer well clear of "points plus pay" purchases.
So true for Qantas. I never bothered with the calculation but it seems to me that even though one might be trying for a Classic seat, i.e. months ahead of time and limited availability, one is basically buying the points to make up the deficit but that one buys miles at the Anytime rate.One thing which Aeroplan did well was that when buying points to make good the balance on a Classic reservation one bought the missing points at the Classic rate, not the inflated Anytime rate which Qantas seems to charge.
 

jgm

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Qantas are just a rip off. You are much better with AAdvantage miles even for Australian domestic awards - far less miles, no "other carrier charges", and same availability for bookings under ~330 days in advance.
 
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Born2ski

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Qantas are just a rip off. You are much better with AAdvantage miles even for Australian domestic awards - far less miles, no "other carrier charges", and same availability for bookings under ~330 days in advance.
What's the best way to accrue AAdvantage miles ? Can you earn them on any Aussie credit cards ?
 

travelislife

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We just booked 2x one way QFF premiun economy from Vancouver to Perth and the “taxes” were about $400 each, which is consistent with what we usually pay

Actual taxes are probably only about $100 each (which is what you would pay booking with say Virgin, Singapore or American points). The rest is Qantas Fuel Surcharges.
 
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Julio

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The good news is QF have now added JAL to their online reward bookings program... Previously you had to go through the call centre which was pretty painful and they would sting you 5000-6000 points for operator assisted reward bookings.

Plenty of J-class availability but it looks like taxes are about the same as flying on QF metal. Eg. MEL-NRT ($172 one way)

I've found taxes are far less on carriers like Cathay and AA, especially if you are departing from outside of Oz
 

travelislife

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The good news is QF have now added JAL to their online reward bookings program... Previously you had to go through the call centre which was pretty painful and they would sting you 5000-6000 points for operator assisted reward bookings.

Plenty of J-class availability but it looks like taxes are about the same as flying on QF metal. Eg. MEL-NRT ($172 one way)

I've found taxes are far less on carriers like Cathay and AA, especially if you are departing from outside of Oz

Shouldn’t have been paying the phone service fee when it isn’t available online. I have never had to pay it booking JAL flights previously over the phone.

It is a bit rich that Qantas are stealing a surcharge. JAL doesn’t get a cent of that. A BKK-NGO JAL flight booked with QF points only had about $50 in real taxes and no surcharges.

I use predominantly Virgin these days as they have no surcharges and free infants. Recently wrote up my experience booking a Europe trip with VA points here: https://www.australianfrequentflyer...oking-europe-trip-with-velocity-points.88429/
 

Scooter

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Couple of questions I had relating to Qantas FF points

The other half had about 130K points wiped - Qantas are advising she was notified etc. yet she can't find any direct evidence of this prior to them being wiped. I know you are made aware of it in fine print etc. but anyone else had this happen to them? If yes what did you do about it? Just would have been nice if she was directly informed they were about to be wiped as she would have done something with them.

I grabbed a couple of reward tickets for my kids (booked as 1 adult 1 kid) the other night for the next school holidays. When working out the dates I think I initially looked at Qantas flights and it was I think 96K points and $180 odd for the 2x tickets. Of course the next day flights not available so grabbed Jetstar flights - it was 36K points and $170 odd which surprised me. TBH I have never flown Jetstar so was just assuming it would have been the same. Can you get these sort of variances between the different carriers? And can you have point variances for the same carrier (different dates etc.)?

TIA :)
 

LMB

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Couple of questions I had relating to Qantas FF points

The other half had about 130K points wiped - Qantas are advising she was notified etc. yet she can't find any direct evidence of this prior to them being wiped. I know you are made aware of it in fine print etc. but anyone else had this happen to them? If yes what did you do about it? Just would have been nice if she was directly informed they were about to be wiped as she would have done something with them.
TIA :)
I signed my kids up for QFF for free using Woolies reward card years ago, and given we were paying for all thier flights I also administered all the points they earned. Transferred when required between each other, or used for rewards. Hadn’t looked for a while, then I thought I’d see where they were at and noticed two of them on 0. I realised that qantas had done the same to them - wiped the points with no notification. The remaining boys weren’t flying QF anytime soon so I quickly used those points before they vanished too.
 

Hoodie

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I treat my points like cash so I check on them (whole family) all the time.

Good to know about JAL.

I never rely on QF for upgrades, it’s not guaranteed and you only know a day before if you have been given it. A good example is trying to get an upgrade over the holiday period - it will never happen... the only way it might is if you are a solo traveler.

We have been using our points for outright ticket purchases.
 

Crystal

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I've had points wiped (without notification) before by Qantas when I was doing a lot of flying with other airlines so didn't get around to keeping an eye on them. I noticed 5 days after the fact. Nothing could be done and they were down right rude about it. I was gold at the time. I have heard though of others here ringing up and they have had them reinstated...luck of the draw I think at who you get on the other end of the phone.

I also had many points wiped from the kids accounts (no notification)...nothing could be done there either. I use them and transfer them when I can now, points have devalued so much these days. Qantas is no longer my FF program that I spend time and effort on.
 

Froff Life

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I've had points wiped (without notification) before by Qantas when I was doing a lot of flying with other airlines so didn't get around to keeping an eye on them. I noticed 5 days after the fact. Nothing could be done and they were down right rude about it. I was gold at the time. I have heard though of others here ringing up and they have had them reinstated...luck of the draw I think at who you get on the other end of the phone.

I also had many points wiped from the kids accounts (no notification)...nothing could be done there either. I use them and transfer them when I can now, points have devalued so much these days. Qantas is no longer my FF program that I spend time and effort on.
What is the FF program you endorse these days?
 
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jgm

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For flights to US & Japan, Alaskan is good (Qantas, Cathay, Korean etc), or American for 1World. For Star Alliance, Avianca or Argean. All have regular bonus offers where you can purchase miles for ~US1.5c/mile. If you want to fly cattle class, no FF schemes are really good value for international flights, although AA can be good for Aus domestic, but I only fly business now, & they can be really good value. If you are relying on upgrades, be aware that discounted economy tickets are usually ineligible. Also, upgrades come from the same buckets as normal awards, and most airlines won't confirm upgrades until very close to the flight. The general rule is if you want an upgrade, be prepared to fly in the class you paid for. Personally, I jump on awards as soon as they are released, usually around 330 days in advance.
 

oldgeezer

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For flights to US & Japan, Alaskan is good (Qantas, Cathay, Korean etc), or American for 1World. For Star Alliance, Avianca or Argean. All have regular bonus offers where you can purchase miles for ~US1.5c/mile. If you want to fly cattle class, no FF schemes are really good value for international flights, although AA can be good for Aus domestic, but I only fly business now, & they can be really good value. If you are relying on upgrades, be aware that discounted economy tickets are usually ineligible. Also, upgrades come from the same buckets as normal awards, and most airlines won't confirm upgrades until very close to the flight. The general rule is if you want an upgrade, be prepared to fly in the class you paid for. Personally, I jump on awards as soon as they are released, usually around 330 days in advance.
Good advice for Star Alliance, I had been wondering which to use for Lufthansa to Europe return or maybe RTW. Would once have used Aeroplan but who knows what will happen with that.
 

torks

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Couple of questions I had relating to Qantas FF points

The other half had about 130K points wiped - Qantas are advising she was notified etc. yet she can't find any direct evidence of this prior to them being wiped. I know you are made aware of it in fine print etc. but anyone else had this happen to them? If yes what did you do about it? Just would have been nice if she was directly informed they were about to be wiped as she would have done something with them.

TIA :)

If you call up and ask for a "points challenge" then you will likely have some success with getting the points reinstated - depending on how long its been since they have been wiped.

They generally give you 90 days to earn a certain amount of points from two different sources. This happened to me about 12 months ago and I had 90 days to earn 5000 points. I think I bought a case of wine & something off Qantas' online mall.
 

Pippenn_2K

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I just wasted 32k points + $900 for a return trip Business Class From Canberra to Christchurch in July lol
 

jgm

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Would have been 50k points + US$185.50 (~A$245) with AA points instead of QF. Qantas charging you $655 for the privilege of using your points.
 

Piste Again

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F19 had her points (only about 30,000 from memory) wiped due to "no points activity for 18 months". That was the year we went to Canada with Air NZ.

Now I know better I'd have transferred them to my account. My CC means I get points activity every month and in any case I've paid for the tickets so they;re my bloody points!!!
 

Pippenn_2K

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Would have been 50k points + US$185.50 (~A$245) with AA points instead of QF. Qantas charging you $655 for the privilege of using your points.

I should expand a little. I went one way Business Classic Reward (32k points $185) and one way Business Sale $720. Sometimes you gotta treat yourself.
 

Piste Again

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If you want to fly cattle class, no FF schemes are really good value for international flights

I think in the less popular times it can work. I was looking at taking M11 for a quick end-of-season trip to France or Japan in the current school holidays (we didn't go for other reasons). A few days before the likely departure date there were FF seats all the way to Geneva and to Narita (QF economy). Those seats had been available for weeks before that so it wasn't last-minute giveaways.
 

jgm

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I just used 34K QF points and $11.20 for a US internal business class flight. This gets me free baggage and lounge access. Saves me the cost of an airport meal. As these were all "free" points from supermarket spending etc, it seems like an OK deal for me.

This is the 1st time in many years where I have had to "pay" extra for US internal flights, as with most international award flights they are included at no extra cost.
 

me tun

Part of the Furniture
Yep good value. Only issue is it is a lottery with nothing guaranteed. Booking outright awards guarantees your seats.

Also pretty sure you can't do it on certain E, Q, O economy fair types i.e., the cheapest ones (even as platinum). I'm trying for three of us at the moment LOL

Which is mildly amusing because I have so many points, but I can't use them.
 

LMB

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Also pretty sure you can't do it on certain E, Q, O economy fair types i.e., the cheapest ones (even as platinum). I'm trying for three of us at the moment LOL

Which is mildly amusing because I have so many points, but I can't use them.
Yep.

And even if the conditions of a fare say you can upgrade on points you’ll be behind all the Platinum FFs who’ve booked a fully flex fare.

My strike rate for upgrades has increased massively since being platinum over gold.
 

LMB

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Very interesting. All a bit of a con. Any chance you'll at least get invited to the auction on one of the cheap fairs as a platinum? Actually, can you even use points in that auction?
Didn’t even know there was an auction for cheap fares LOL

I think we have hit critical mass in the hunt for accruing ff status points. We will hit platinum again this year (just) but it’s such a rort. In future brand loyalty is out the window and best option will win out.
 
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me tun

Part of the Furniture
I mean the auction for an upgrade, you often get invited within days of leaving. I don't think you'll get invited on those cheap fairs (no matter your status)... I'd like to get an answer on that actually...

Yeah, I sacked chasing points about five or six years ago. Even the hotel ones, I used to be a massive SPG fan, but seems not so good now (under Marriot)... No such thing as a free lunch...
 
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Froff Life

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I don't 'chase' points, but they're a nice bonus. I've received 100K FF points just for changing credit cards in Feb. I'll look at changing again next Jan to whatever card gives another bonus. I figure I'm using the credit card anyway to pay bills/petrol etc. Might as well get some bonus points for it!
 
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Ozgirl

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LMB

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I don't 'chase' points, but they're a nice bonus. I've received 100K FF points just for changing credit cards in Feb. I'll look at changing again next Jan to whatever card gives another bonus. I figure I'm using the credit card anyway to pay bills/petrol etc. Might as well get some bonus points for it!
It’s not points being chased as much as status credits.

We’ve felt that the advantages of being platinum have been handy when carrying loads of climbing or snowboarding gear (over and above the usual snowboard/boots/winter gear obviously). Extra baggage, upgrades easier to get, that kind of thing.

Now I think, stuff it! If I want extra bags and a comfy sleeping seat to rest before a big adventure I’ll just book business on he airline that has the best route there!
 

me tun

Part of the Furniture
The auction is for an upgrade for an already purchased ticket.

some details here

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-online-auction-lets-you-bid-for-business-class-upgrade

Bid Now Upgrades operates as an invitation-only scheme and not all passengers will be given the opportunity to lodge a bid. First in line will be travellers booked on the more expensive economy fares such from the Flex, Semi Flex and Saver categories, rather than the cheaper sale fares.

Interesting, so I may cop an invite...
 
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LMB

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Ha!
That’s why I’ll never get an invite.
If we book economy (or premium) we almost always put in a classic points upgrade request.
If we don’t get it then there are no available business seats.

@me tun if you’ve put upgrade requests in for your family then they won’t offer you an auction. You’ll either get them, or some of them, or not. Auction will only happen if there are remaining business seats and no upgrade requests for them.
 

Richard

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What fascinates me, is how airlines (and Qantas in particular) have managed to gamify the upper echelon of white collar workers so successfully.

Mostly highly educated people, holding challenging executive roles 'collect points' with the earnest seriousness of teens playing WOW - and what is more, any accumulation of points is dog-whistled whenever possible as a means of conferring c-suite hierarchy status.

What started out as a simple 'buy 10 get 1 free' loyalty card has morphed into a significant extraction of real value from corporate travel budgets through symbolism. The points have become basically a bad value pre-payment program. The airlines can get away with this extremely bad value proposition because, for the majority, the value of the points is received by the individual (a proxy fringe benefit) but the real cost has been borne by the corporation. The circle is completed by those approving travel budget appropriations are invariably the recipients of the points. Everyone involved is in on 'the game'.. and it is a game.

Any rational examination of service v's price between different airlines reveals how small the man is behind the green curtain.

Between myself and +1 we have maybe 200K QFF points atm. Everytime +1 looks at using them she gets cranky at how they are basically not worth shite. I've taken one Qantas flight in five years because I think the whole thing is a crock and we (i.e us adults) are being played like children and fools - but mostly because Qantas flights are just really bad value most of the time.
 

TOFF

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What fascinates me, is how airlines (and Qantas in particular) have managed to gamify the upper echelon of white collar workers so successfully.

Mostly highly educated people, holding challenging executive roles 'collect points' with the earnest seriousness of teens playing WOW - and what is more, any accumulation of points is dog-whistled whenever possible as a means of conferring c-suite hierarchy status.

What started out as a simple 'buy 10 get 1 free' loyalty card has morphed into a significant extraction of real value from corporate travel budgets through symbolism. The points have become basically a bad value pre-payment program. The airlines can get away with this extremely bad value proposition because, for the majority, the value of the points is received by the individual (a proxy fringe benefit) but the real cost has been borne by the corporation. The circle is completed by those approving travel budget appropriations are invariably the recipients of the points. Everyone involved is in on 'the game'.. and it is a game.

Any rational examination of service v's price between different airlines reveals how small the man is behind the green curtain.

Between myself and +1 we have maybe 200K QFF points atm. Everytime +1 looks at using them she gets cranky at how they are basically not worth shite. I've taken one Qantas flight in five years because I think the whole thing is a crock and we (i.e us adults) are being played like children and fools - but mostly because Qantas flights are just really bad value most of the time.
Yeah, points are near on useless but status has some handy benefits when travelling often. (Lounge access, priority seating etc)
 

me tun

Part of the Furniture
Ha!
@me tun if you’ve put upgrade requests in for your family then they won’t offer you an auction. You’ll either get them, or some of them, or not. Auction will only happen if there are remaining business seats and no upgrade requests for them.

I'm so far down the food chain that I can't even put in an upgrade request.

There are so many gold/platinum members out there these days. It only really takes a handful of long haul flights in business class to achieve.
 

gaz35

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What fascinates me, is how airlines (and Qantas in particular) have managed to gamify the upper echelon of white collar workers so successfully.

Mostly highly educated people, holding challenging executive roles 'collect points' with the earnest seriousness of teens playing WOW - and what is more, any accumulation of points is dog-whistled whenever possible as a means of conferring c-suite hierarchy status.

What started out as a simple 'buy 10 get 1 free' loyalty card has morphed into a significant extraction of real value from corporate travel budgets through symbolism. The points have become basically a bad value pre-payment program. The airlines can get away with this extremely bad value proposition because, for the majority, the value of the points is received by the individual (a proxy fringe benefit) but the real cost has been borne by the corporation. The circle is completed by those approving travel budget appropriations are invariably the recipients of the points. Everyone involved is in on 'the game'.. and it is a game.

Any rational examination of service v's price between different airlines reveals how small the man is behind the green curtain.

Between myself and +1 we have maybe 200K QFF points atm. Everytime +1 looks at using them she gets cranky at how they are basically not worth shite. I've taken one Qantas flight in five years because I think the whole thing is a crock and we (i.e us adults) are being played like children and fools - but mostly because Qantas flights are just really bad value most of the time.
yeah, nah. As you suggest Qantas have marketed this well and white collars have seen it as a win win (to them as individuals - not their businesses necessarily). Others, like me, accumulate points on credit card spend that I would have anyway, I rarely if ever pay a levy if one is charged for using my Amex, I clear my credit cards each month, and we get a free flights to somewhere each year to ski. No brainer for me
 

azzski

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Yep, chase the bonus points with no 1st year annual fee, then dump after 11 months for a new one with that 1st year fee waived.

I'm flying return to Sapporo via Pudong in Jan, cost me 140k points plus about $370 in taxes. Vast majority of those points came through a 75k freebie plus regular credit card spending - no interest paid. Good result for the minor inconvenience of applying for a new cc once a year.
 

Froff Life

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Yep, chase the bonus points with no 1st year annual fee, then dump after 11 months for a new one with that 1st year fee waived.

I'm flying return to Sapporo via Pudong in Jan, cost me 140k points plus about $370 in taxes. Vast majority of those points came through a 75k freebie plus regular credit card spending - no interest paid. Good result for the minor inconvenience of applying for a new cc once a year.
100% the way to do it! Credit card companies make enough money off the poor fools that don't pay them off in the interest free period, so it's good to see people using them correctly and getting rewarded
 
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Ozgirl

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Yep, chase the bonus points with no 1st year annual fee, then dump after 11 months for a new one with that 1st year fee waived.

I'm flying return to Sapporo via Pudong in Jan, cost me 140k points plus about $370 in taxes. Vast majority of those points came through a 75k freebie plus regular credit card spending - no interest paid. Good result for the minor inconvenience of applying for a new cc once a year.
Yep! Our honeymoon will be 'paid' for using card churn points.
 
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