Qatar airways offering free flights for teachers

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
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how about sticking to facts - rather than emotive garbage
You are getting a bit excited. Mine was a factual statement, possibly incorrect, but not emotive.

When is someone going to attempt a rational debate? What did the cops do wrong? Why was it wrong? What were reasonable alternatives given existing constraints?
 

Apresski

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Yep. "All those ladies" have been exonerated. The investigation moves on. Remember my comment about crossing things off?
The women are rightfully appalled. The government has correctly made their dissatisfaction known. Do airlines not have agreements with Middle Eastern countries excluding the airport from the rigours of Islam. Female transit passengers do not have to adhere to the clothing regulations, I would have thought that forcefully examining women in such a manner would be regarded as a step too far.
Will make many women think twice about flying Qatar Airways.
 

skichanger

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The women are rightfully appalled. The government has correctly made their dissatisfaction known. Do airlines not have agreements with Middle Eastern countries excluding the airport from the rigours of Islam. Female transit passengers do not have to adhere to the clothing regulations, I would have thought that forcefully examining women in such a manner would be regarded as a step too far.
Will make many women think twice about flying Qatar Airways.
Decided a long time ago that they were not a good option.
 
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gaz35

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You are getting a bit excited. Mine was a factual statement, possibly incorrect, but not emotive.

When is someone going to attempt a rational debate? What did the cops do wrong? Why was it wrong? What were reasonable alternatives given existing constraints?
factually wrong - not possibly. Argue your point by all means but don't be a hypocrite
 
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cold wombat

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Ferchrissake. The cops haven't even found her. How can they decide whether or not they will press any charges? If I have focussed on anything I have focussed on investigation.

Edit: If the same circumstances happened here the cops would do the investigation. Once they completed their investigation they would decide about criminal charges. There would be no army of social workers scouring the streets in search of some social welfare matter.

If you want to maintain the fiction that the mother's welfare was a prime consideration then go for it. But don't expect anyone else to go along with that fantasy.
 
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Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
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If you want to maintain the fiction that the mother's welfare was a prime consideration then go for it. But don't expect anyone else to go along with that fantasy.
I'm not maintaining any fiction. A newborn has been found abandoned. There is a reasonably good chance that a crime has been committed. Something that will be decided when the investigation is complete. While you are checking what homicide means you can have a look for infanticide.
 

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
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RUOK? because none of what you are saying is rational.
Have you told them you are happy for them to be taken off a plane with no explanation, put in an ambulance with strangers, have their underwear removed and then be vaginally examined by a stranger?
What did the cops do wrong? Why was it wrong? What were reasonable alternatives given existing constraints?
 

piolet

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I'm not maintaining any fiction. A newborn has been found abandoned. There is a reasonably good chance that a crime has been committed. Something that will be decided when the investigation is complete. While you are checking what homicide means you can have a look for infanticide.

So now its a good chance a crime was committed? Softening.
 

skichanger

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What did the cops do wrong? Why was it wrong? What were reasonable alternatives given existing constraints?
So you admit that you would be happy for the significant women in your life to have this done to them because you think the cops did nothing wrong. Have you told those women that? I think you should and they may be able to explain to you what the police did wrong.

I find it very disturbing that you think that women being vaginally examined without their consent is ok.

And as for answering the questions, perhaps you should answer the questions being asked of you.

This has the makings of one of those classic threads where someone takes a dumb stand and refuses to change their opinion even when they are being completely irrational. We have not had one for quite a while.
 

Apresski

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If I wrote "When you are in a foreign country you should accept and obey the laws of that country" the statement would be completely unexceptionable.
Hence the question I asked re agreements with countries to relax their Islamic laws.

Your comment is the only reasonable defence for their actions. So women should be very wary visiting or transiting Qatar.
 
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skichanger

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If I wrote "When you are in a foreign country you should accept and obey the laws of that country" the statement would be completely unexceptionable.
Obey yes. Accept, well there there are some extreme laws in various countries that are not ok. Do you think it is ok for people to object to the death penalty? is it ok for police in USA to keep killing black people? Is it ok for people to be tortured?

However this is not a case of people really being in that foreign country, and certainly not a case of people visiting as tourists or living in that country. They were in transit and my understanding is that they had not gone through immigration.

And if a country is doing something truly horrendous shouldn't "we" be objecting to that? Otherwise there are all sorts of human rights violations that would be allowed to continue. I am not talking about things like what happens in Japan where you can be locked up for 3 days with no one being told. I am talking about women in Saudi Arabia effectively needing a male relatives permission to do most things, muslims in China being held in political education camps.... there is a long list.

If the law in Qatar is such that women can be violated as these women were,we should be protesting against this. It is not as if all these women broke a law and were then being punished for breaking that law. You seem to be comparing this with that sort of situation.
 
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Legs Akimbo

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Obey yes. Accept, well there there are some extreme laws in various countries that are not ok. Do you think it is ok for people to object to the death penalty? is it ok for police in USA to keep killing black people? Is it ok for people to be tortured?

However this is not a case of people really being in that foreign country, and certainly not a case of people visiting as tourists or living in that country. They were in transit and my understanding is that they had not gone through immigration.

And if a country is doing something truly horrendous shouldn't "we" be objecting to that? Otherwise there are all sorts of human rights violations that would be allowed to continue. I am not talking about things like what happens in Japan where you can be locked up for 3 days with no one being told. I am talking about women in Saudi Arabia effectively needing a male relatives permission to do most things, muslims in China being held in political education camps.... there is a long list.

If the law in Qatar is such that women can be violated as these women were,we should be protesting against this. It is not as if all these women broke a law and were then being punished for breaking that law. You seem to be comparing this with that sort of situation.
I look forward to your support for the introduction of Sharia law into Australia. Muslims regard some things that are legal in Australia as "horrendous".

And if these people weren't in Qatar where were they?
 

cold wombat

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Obey yes. Accept, well there there are some extreme laws in various countries that are not ok. Do you think it is ok for people to object to the death penalty? is it ok for police in USA to keep killing black people? Is it ok for people to be tortured?

However this is not a case of people really being in that foreign country, and certainly not a case of people visiting as tourists or living in that country. They were in transit and my understanding is that they had not gone through immigration.

And if a country is doing something truly horrendous shouldn't "we" be objecting to that? Otherwise there are all sorts of human rights violations that would be allowed to continue. I am not talking about things like what happens in Japan where you can be locked up for 3 days with no one being told. I am talking about women in Saudi Arabia effectively needing a male relatives permission to do most things, muslims in China being held in political education camps.... there is a long list.

If the law in Qatar is such that women can be violated as these women were,we should be protesting against this. It is not as if all these women broke a law and were then being punished for breaking that law. You seem to be comparing this with that sort of situation.

I think you are forgetting. This is a serious criminal issue:

A newborn is found in a plastic bag in a rubbish bin. It's either attempted homicide or a precocious suicide attempt.

It's still a homicide.

I would also be angry if someone who committed homicide went free.

Put yourself in the place of the cops. They have a crime. Potential perpetrators are about to get on planes and go outside their jurisdiction. What to do?

Skichanger, the criminal issue is clearly the more important issue.
 

telecrag

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On what basis is Muslim desire to inject Sharia concepts into Australian law different to injecting western values into the law of Islamic countries?

Good point.

But

We rule the world, and when I say we, I mean us and our friends the USA and where it all began, the British Empire (OK, so not much us, but wow, do we ever punch above our weight on moral righteousness!). Therefore we determine what is "civilised".
 

LMB

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You're the one who mentioned homicide. FMD.
You need a bigger shovel.
Actually I think I may have been the first person to mention infanticide despite legs believing none of us understand the meaning of such a technical legal term. LOL
Hence the question I asked re agreements with countries to relax their Islamic laws.

Your comment is the only reasonable defence for their actions. So women should be very wary visiting or transiting Qatar.
And this goes back to my comment from page 1.

If there is no apology and assurance that this kind of thing isn’t going to happen to transit passengers in future then there needs to be a clear DFAT warning discouraging people, particularly women from flying through Doha. If they wish to operate an international airport and NOT have western nations discouraging passengers from transiting there then they’ll abide by internationally accepted practices. If not, good luck to them.

Logical and unemotional enough for you Legs?
 

Legs Akimbo

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Good point.

But

We rule the world, and when I say we, I mean us and our friends the USA and where it all began, the British Empire (OK, so not much us, but wow, do we ever punch above our weight on moral righteousness!). Therefore we determine what is "civilised".
Might is right. Got that.
Actually I think I may have been the first person to mention infanticide despite legs believing none of us understand the meaning of such a technical legal term.
Perhaps you can explain it to the wombat?
If there is no apology and assurance that this kind of thing isn’t going to happen to transit passengers in future then there needs to be a clear DFAT warning discouraging people, particularly women from flying through Doha. If they wish to operate an international airport and NOT have western nations discouraging passengers from transiting there then they’ll abide by internationally accepted practices. If not, good luck to them.

Logical and unemotional enough for you Legs?
OK. Let them be warned away. Although, if you haven't worked out that different laws might apply in different countries you should not be allowed out of your house, let alone the country.
 

teckel

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On what basis is Muslim desire to inject Sharia concepts into Australian law different to injecting western values into the law of Islamic countries?
For starters, muslims seem very happy to settle in western countries. I don't see many westerners settling in muslim countries. So clearly, they don't find our values too offensive, but we find many of their values (public stonings & floggings, denying over 50% of their population any rights, female genital multilation etc) too offensive to contemplate living there.
 

Legs Akimbo

Grumblebum
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For starters, muslims seem very happy to settle in western countries. I don't see many westerners settling in muslim countries. So clearly, they don't find our values too offensive, but we find many of their values (public stonings & floggings, denying over 50% of their population any rights, female genital multilation etc) too offensive to contemplate living there.
It just shows what a tolerant bunch of people Muslims are.
 
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