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Advice needed Remove Rotefella Freedom heel piece

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by LastMile, Aug 28, 2018.

  1. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    Does anyone know the trick to removing the plastic part of the NTN Freedom's heel piece to access the screws?

    Installation instructions say:

    Then the plastic part is attached to the rear of the aluminium part mounted on
    the ski. When the back notch is in position, the heel is squeezed into place.

    I'm a bit hesitant to just jam a screw driver in the front and try and pop it off the back.

    I've installed a set of Quiver Killer inserts in an old pair of Black Diamond Havocs that I hope to use for late spring touring in patchy conditions.
     
  2. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Didn't know you could do that, not sure why you need to. Will look at the +1s when they appear later tonight.

    Actually pretty sure hers have a metal plate the threads go through into the inserts in the skis.
     
  3. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker Ski Pass: Gold

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  4. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    skifree, Untele-whippet and piolet like this.
  5. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Pic when finished please. :)

    Love a good insert job.;)
     
  6. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    Well, you're going to love this one! It has the potential to go full Swiss cheese.

    Based on the knowledge that the by sharing the front two holes of the Vice mount, the Freedom would have a very similar (but not identical) NTN front of boot to the current 75mm pin line.

    Using the front holes as a guide I used the template to mark, punch, drill and tap the Freedom holes. Did a dry install of all the inserts and mounted the Vice and Freedom to make sure everything was in line before epoxying. Then, to double check the Freedom heel insert was in the right spot I clipped in my Scarpa TX Pros. Uh oh...boot centre is ~5cm behind the mark on the skis. I check the Vice and Scarpa T2Xs, boot centre is also 5cm behind the ski mark.

    These skis were originally mounted with G3 Targa bindings in 2006. I assume the wisdom back then was that touring bindings should be mounted that far back. In 2011 the Targa's were replaced with 22 Designs Vice and I guess the shop just kept the pin line in the same position as the Targas.

    I only skied the Vice with the T2s for one season. Loving the step up to an active binding, the following year I treated myself to a full upgrade to BD Verdicts, Freedom and TX Pros. These were mounted boot centre over ski mark.

    My dilemma is what to do now, noting that my plan for the old Havocs mounted with Freedoms is to use them as a spring touring ski. They haven't been used since winter 2011, so I figured I could get more use out of them without risking base damage to my current resort setup.

    Should I:

    A) Keep everything mounted 5cm back and get over it
    B) Re-drill the Freedoms in the proper position
    C) Re-drill both mounts in the proper position

    If I go option B) there is a hole conflict with the current Vice mount, so would have to move the Freedom forward back at least 1cm. I'm also unlikely to ever ski the Vice again, but thought I could install inserts in the relevant positions in case someone wanted to borrow the skis to use with 75mm boots for a resort day. I could also fill all existing holes with epoxy and only redrill for Freedom with boot centre at 0cm.

    Appreciate any wisdom from Backcountry addicts.
     
  7. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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  8. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    People used to mount Telemark bindings on chord centre (half the distance between the tip of the ski and the end of the running surface), which was often about 5cm behind boot centre to boot centre mark. Those skis will ski better with boot centre on boot centre mark, but you've been skiing them for this long 5cm behind you won't know any better, you should probably just run with it.

    Modern skis are soooooo much better than they were 12 years ago. My honest advice is to get something modern as a touring ski, put the freedoms on those and leave your vices in the havocs to lend out.
     
    Ziggy and skifree like this.
  9. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    Thanks, I really appreciate the advice. It's always good to get some external wisdom to stop yourself disappearing down the time and money rabbit hole of diminishing returns.

    I think I'll fill all the insert holes on the old Havocs with epoxy and remount the Vice bindings using regular binding screws at boot centre for the T2Xs. They can then go back under the house as loaner skis and I'll save the 34 inserts for other projects.

    Maybe there's a pair of light weight touring skis in my future...
     
    skifree likes this.
  10. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Yep I juggle the 1/2 chord length , balance point and boot centre to get the correct position for where the old pins line should be but I am on 75mm.
    Also try to avoid getting too close to old holes.
    Yeah modern touring skis are good but still mostly use Tua Hydrogens or Nitrogens.
     
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I'm a fan of fills of 50/50 epoxy and ground coffee. Used it a lot in woodturning to fill voids. Plenty strong and can be shaped with normal tools when dry; easy to work; cheaper and sweeter smelling than 100% epoxy.
     
    sbm_ likes this.
  12. mr

    mr Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    now that's peak hipster @Ziggy :)
     
    skifree and Ziggy like this.
  13. LastMile

    LastMile Hard Yards

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    That's one way to take your epoxy @Ziggy!

    The Vice template from 22 Designs recommends that for their binding that boot centre be 10-40mm rearward from the ski mark. So reusing the front four Vice mounting hole and drilled two new forward holes moved everything forward 38mm and only had a boot centre offset of 12mm rearward (with the added bonus of only needing two new holes and no conflicts). I ended up using the Quiver Killer inserts to remount the Vice bindings, as I wanted the practice before I did all 22 inserts for the Freedoms on my good skis.

    I used PC-7 epoxy paste to fill the holes left from my aborted dual mount attempt. Sticky crap to work with, but the excess cleaned up easily with acetone. I over filled the unused insert holes and after 24 hours used a very sharp chisel to neatly knock the top off so it sits flush with the skis' top sheet. Looks good, but while I originally wanted something coloured rather than clear, if I was to do it again I'd save myself the hassle and just use a Loctite rapid self-mixed epoxy syringe (clear), overfill the holes, wipe off the excess, tape over the top of the holes, flip the skis and let gravity and the tape create a flush finish.
     
  14. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    I always thought the K2 ski inserts of the early 2000s were clever.
    However it cost more and the binding manufacturers couldnt unfortunately decide on a standard.
    I like the idea of the quiver killers. I saw on ************** site that he has them.
     
  15. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat One of Us

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    Oh OK this is like the ABC we cant mention commercial brands!!!