Question Resort telemark skis- suggestions

Discussion in 'Backcountry' started by Peagreenboat, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    Hi! I've had a few tele lessons on my backcountry Madshus tele skis with 3 pin (voile hd), and each time the instructors said: 'they are not really proper tele skis/gear'. I haven't bothered to explain as most of them don't appear to ski/camp back country where the gear is light, repairable and works well.
    Anyway, I'm interested in trying resort tele gear in resort as per their suggestions and to have a go at fakie/ falling leaf at some point. I'd appreciate suggestions on what skis I should consider, without spending too much (as rather spend this on my BC gear).
    Thanks
     
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  2. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Its going to cost. But look for older gear running out. I prefer a slightly softer ski for tele, atm Im on Majesty Telebolts, and they are a fantastic all rounder, handle ice and powder well.

    Maybe with your current setup (what boots?), it might be advisable to buy a second hand setup with something like Hammerheads on it, from someone moving to NTN, rather than going for a whole new setup. Should be able to pick up something decent for $2-400 second hand IMO.
     
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  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    Full marks for taking telemarking seriously enough to get lessons.
    Maybe hire first.
    Plakky boots, decent cable bindings, skis without a pattern, with minimal camber and decent sidecut - roll the skis on their edges and see what happens. Makes a big difference. Tele is all about flow. Pattern base and stiff camber aren't.
    Once you know how the turn works you can try and bend the touring rig to your will.
     
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  4. buckwheat

    buckwheat Hard Yards

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    Have some old g3 bindings i could give away if that helps. Cables dont adjust anymore but if you mounted them right theyd work
     
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  5. Ian

    Ian Hard Yards
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    Just hire a few different setups and see how you go, and consider forking out for a private lesson right from the start so you don't take your bad tele habits with you.

    At a past 2 day Tele-Fest at Perisher I was on my touring setup, frustrated at my poor tele and the instructor [Grahame?] said I was doing everything right but I wasn't going to carve up the piste on them. He was exactly right.

    If you think you might take your resort gear backcountry, I take mine to Bogong, don't get 'tight' boots thinking you'll need it on the resort, your feet will thank you at the end of the day.
     
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  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    If you stump up for boots that will drive resort tele skis they should come with thermoform liners. Get them fitted by someone who knows their stuff - you will get both comfort and control. You won't need to resort to thick socks for padding. The insulation and waterproofness are bonuses if you take them touring. Kicker skins will allow that in rolling hills without too much fitting/stripping overhead.
     
  7. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Skiing resort, and learning to ski betterer, totally changed what touring I still do. It used to be like bushwalking, with some mellow runs that were fun. Now I look for lines, and tour in completely different terrain.

    I still have my patterns though, and enjoy the odd occasion I do go back to my roots. But I think the days are gone that I would enjoy skiing say Elevator on the patterns.
     
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  8. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
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    Wide patterned modern rockered skis like Voile Vector BC are worth a look with either Tele or AT binders.
     
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  9. skifree

    skifree Part of the Furniture
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    Remind me, Vic or NSW based.
     
  10. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    Thanks for the thoughtful offer, I'm not yet sure on bindings for this exercise, but may pm you if I go a cheap option but open to ideas.
     
  11. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    Hi, I'm Vic based.
    To other suggestions: Hire has not been an option, no one in Vic hires resort tele, except Rocky Valley and their gear is old Karhu Jak etc without twin tip. I'd like to keep with my new excursions, though would consider NTN hire. I'll have a look at the Vector BC and Telebolt: thanks for all of your suggestions.
     
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  12. chriscross

    chriscross One of Us
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    Viking at FC used to hire resort tele skis- some years back now. I doubt Voile Vector bc skis are available anywhere in Oz. A great ski for touring out of the resort and some turns on moderate terrain; not sure that I would recommend them for strictly in resort, maybe something a little faster but I'm not sure what. Ziggy has some that go quite well (left me behind).
     
  13. stansi

    stansi One of Us
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  14. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
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    I only put up the Voile Vector BC up as they are a ski that is nice in BC steeps like the elevator and also on piste BUT they do slowwww down on runouts.
    Great ski with pluses and minuses
     
  15. slotele

    slotele Hard Yards

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    Hi Peagreen,
    You can hire resort tele skis from Ajays, EMC and Wilderness shop in Melbourne.
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    Tele skis hardly exist as a category any more.
    The Telebolts are interesting - doesn't telecrag ski them, or another Majesty?
    Helluva short radius turn though.
    Cam Walker and I both ski Liberty Sequence, a lovely playful ski with a 17m turning radius that still does ok in rough stuff. Liberty Morphics - see telecrag again. Liberty Yariant - dossa5
    If you want best tele performance leave the pattern base out. Messes with the lead change.
     
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  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    Should say as well though that Excursions aren't going to drive these skis well. Not up to the edge control that's needed.
     
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  18. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Yeah, I have Morphics and Variants as well, but the Majesty works a little better for me. I was turned off by the radius, but it has a weird progressive radius, so they don't get squirrelly at pace, and carve long turns just as easy as short, well, slarve in my case.
     
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  19. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    Is there any such thing as a tele specific ski?

    I currently have a set of black diamond havoc with 01 bindings but these don't see to much use anymore as I tend to use my ntn skis.

    I have a set of black crow Nevis free bird which seriously rock, set up with rottefella ntn. I seriously love these skis, brought them as touring skis but they get a lot of resort use.

    I also have a set of Volkl kendo, these are a much stiffer ski and absolutely fly but you really have to work them.

    I'm on the lookout for something a little thinner under (around 80) which are a bit softer than the Kendos I'm a bit like @telecrag and starting to realise I prefer a slightly softer ski. I tend to find the stiffer skis blow out the legs faster as you have to work harder on them.
     
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  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    There used to be tele-marked skis. Majesty looks to be the only ones left?
     
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  21. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    Interesting. Ziggy, are you able to describe what you experience when you say it messes with the lead change?
    Do you also think that being lighter and female means the same rules apply about a beefier boot if on a female ski?
    I also found an explanation of old school versus new school tele which makes sense to why old school worked better with skinny schools but maybe why new school has been more challenging with my set up. I'm going to test it out this wknd to see if that's the case or whether it's just my crap technique!! Any thoughts on that from those that have skied both styles on both set ups?
     
  22. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    Thanks for that, yes Ajays have one ski in my size with a partial twin. EMC don't. Thanks for the heads up.
     
  23. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    Why the twin tip?

    Sorry just noted the fakie in the o/p.
     
  24. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
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    Your boots won't drive a resort setup. If you don't want to get bigger boots for the resort don't bother buying resort skis or bindings. You'll get more value out of spending time on the lifts with your current setup than you will from miss matched equipment.

    Unless you are serious about spending time in the park there is no need to worry about a twin tip ski. For just tootling around with skiing backwards any waxable based ski will do (I've done switch tele turns on skate skis).

    I think your money will be better spent with an instructor who actually skis on light equipment and with modern technique than on overpowering your boots with skis and bindings they weren't designed to drive.
     
  25. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Id listen to him, even though he is an idiot!
     
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  26. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty
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    Twin tip are necessary for keeping all the people following you at a safe distance!
     
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  27. Untele-whippet

    Untele-whippet beard stroker
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    Ugly though wise.
     
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  28. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    Wasn't it the attempted reverse tele that added to the ugly factor. On light gear
     
  29. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
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    I blame those metal edges for all of my woes.
     
  30. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    You weren't supposed to shave with them!
     
  31. stansi

    stansi One of Us
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    Every telemarker needs twin tips.
    If Your not producing rooster tail,
    Your not doin' it right.
     
  32. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
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    There hasn't been a twinnie since the original Gotama which produced a proper rooster tail.
     
  33. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    They want to stick. Messes with the rythmn. The telemark isn't a turn, it's a dance.

    I'd like to read that explanation. Post the link?

    My view is that exaggerated moves were needed to get power to unresponsive skis via sloppy linkages.

    With a modern ski - comparatively wide, waisted and barely cambered - all you need to start a turn is roll your ankles, and you continue the turn edges into the slope. But because the ski is wide, that takes leverage, and a low cut soft boot doesn't deliver enough of it. It will do better with your narrower skis

    Are you skiing Annums? They're actually plenty of ski for the dance. Wide enough for typical Australian snow, enough side-cut and a soft camber for easy turns. The pattern base isn't as aggressive as the equivalent Fischer.

    HTH.
     
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  34. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    Thanks. Do you have any suggestions for instructors who fit that bill?
     
  35. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    ...I'm skiing the Eon which as you know is a narrow BC ski, with a 62mm waist. I like the light set up for BC with the excursions heavy enough for me. My OP was really about getting a ski to practice with in resort but I'm not sure I want or need something for BC right now but might later. We have a Karhu Ryder with Chilli bindings that the other half skied on glacier in NZ last year and he enjoyed it, and it's the same length as my Eons so I've sent him off to grab them. They are a 78 I think.

    The explanation of old v new school is only one sentence in the middle of this vid ("we're looking for edge change before a lead change; old school was lead change, followed by edge change @1.50min
     
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  36. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    ...and I forgot to say that I tried this yesterday, including a switch out to leathers mid day and I have to say, trying the 'old school' got me around better on the eons than the former which seems to slam me straight into the slope but stops me aggressively.
     
  37. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    Great video, I've seen this a few times and yes the edge change before lead change made a massive difference to my Tele skiing!
     
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  38. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    The thing with the Eons is they have a lot of camber and you have to work to dish the edge into a curve. Try an exaggerated rise and fall.
     
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  39. rowdyflat

    rowdyflat Hard Yards

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    Interesting never thought about it .
    I will have to check whether I am nu or old skool.Either way prolly too old to change.
    BTW I have found Line 92 supernatural lite a good lift tele ski= 5 days on them.
    The lite refers to less wt and no metal top sheet so softer just right .
    Bought from OS about $500 half Aussie price , refuse to pay the importers extra 100%.
    Have read good reviews.
     
  40. zac150

    zac150 One of Us
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    Never to old to change, I made the switch to new school toward the end of last year, a couple of days O/S I really focused on it and then this season it has just felt right. The big difference is that when you get the edge change first you really feel the ski working for you with the camber plus side cut doing what they are supposed to do. It is hard to describe but you pop out of the turn and have a period of weightlessness which allows you to shift the skis effortlessly.

    Occasionally I still lean the upper body across and forget to get the skis on edge which makes for a pretty funny stack which invariably has my daughter in tears.
     
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  41. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    I have a recommendation for Tony at Windy Corner.
     
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  42. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter
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    From memory you're in Vic. In the below video the guy in the green pants and black jacket is Chris Lewczynski, an instructor at Mt Hotham. I think he'd be able to help you out.

     
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  43. dossa5

    dossa5 One of Us
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    Bejesus Ziggy thought that was you coaching in that vid.
     
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  44. Ziggy

    Ziggy Renormed
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    Coincidentally the new light touring rig includes the same skinny skis that pgb is using.
     
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  45. slotele

    slotele Hard Yards

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    Hi There Peagreen,

    Here are the skis I set up for my daughter to do just what you are talking about. A bit of in bounds tele practice to build skills. I was originally going to put some free pivot bindings on them but realised she wasn't going to tour on these so went with some Targa bindings ( Thanks Moondog! ). Skis were about $270, she used older Scarpa T2 boots, which are like the T4 with a power strap.

    Over 5 days in Japan last month she went from zero to good short & long radius tele turns, and was making good progress on switch and falling leaf with a bit of 180 & 360.
     
  46. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Nice new home for them. I'm going to be needing an instructor at Falls myself this season. New hip and I'll be needing some help getting rid of some old bad habits. Surgeon says he has no problems with me skiing.
    Would you be interested in shared private lessons PGB? I'm in the old and slow camp so pretty much a beginner on the new gear
     
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  47. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Have you bought your new stiff boots yet PGB?
     
  48. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    Hi Moondog, I realised I missed these posts.
    Yep, would be interested in sharing a lesson. Not yet sure when I will be up there. Will PM you. I did get my new skis and bindings but have not upgraded my boots (I know, I know, everyone advised me too). Voile reckoned that the Excursions will work OK with the Switchbacks, and the skis are about 82mm pretty flexi so hopefully I may just get by without upping my boots.
    Not planning on spending too much time in resort, but plan to also maybe cross over to the dark side for a few lessons on normal gear as I vaguely know one of the instructors and I've seen him instruct and think I'd get benefit. I need to get my edging sorted more now, think it's the next step, that and going a bit faster :))) Gonna be still super slow and super crap so I wouldn't worry if we end up on slope together. Hopefully next weekend there the first bit of skiable snow (please ski gods!!)...
     
  49. Peagreenboat

    Peagreenboat Hard Yards

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    ..and meant to add, last season, Falls had 3 tele capable instructors and I was pretty happy with the way they handled/booked the lesson. There seemed to be quite a few tele skiers around especially in spring. I'm planning on mostly being backcountry this season, other than during some additional resort practice.
     
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  50. snowgum

    snowgum One of Us

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    Howdy,
    PLease excuse my 20 cents worth - 30 years of trial & considerable error!

    you'll probably cope for a year on Excursions - I have a pair going strong after 10-11 years - but they'll hold you back if you continue on the lifts and esp as you improve. They're great for rolling terrain and tours and so on, and even the odd day on the lifts at Bawbs.

    Fwiw: I use ~13 y.o Garmont SynerG, for resorts - they're sufficient (3 buckle & powerstrap) but I'd certainly go to 4 buckle for the next resort boot. Sounds like you'll take some time hiring first - that's a good way to work out what suits & fits you. Take your time but try to upgrade when possible.

    For skis I have 10 year old Rossi Powderbirds (~120, 83, 108) on Hammerheads. Both work very well for resort. I bought mine from Bruce in Jindy - not sure whether he has them for sale ex hire. Worth asking.
    The slightly narrower DirtyBird would do a good job too - not quite so good in the soft stuff.

    As you've hinted above, (Captain obvious) you really need separate resort & tour skis. Patterns suck on the piste, an not everyone want to use heavy teles & kickers for Bbaw or Lake Mtn! You won't regret the shift once you've accepted the hit to the wallet!

    It's a lot of money to change up to NTN, so I'll be waiting until my Garmont outers die (please be more than five years!) I thoroughly recommend buying new thermo- Moulded Inners to upgrade an old outer shell. For 200$ ish they're worth it. And Moulded foot beds are great for me. Doug at EMC is very good with foot beds & Inners & boot mods but I'm sure the other stores will look after you too.

    Good luck, it all happen in time.

    BTW: after learning Tele for 3 decades, I mostly parallel - gee my knees ache these days. I mostly save teles for Powder, soft corn, wide quiet moderate terrain. Oh - and when my mates aren't looking (hot tip!)
     
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