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review falls creek and hotham

Discussion in 'Falls Creek' started by andy222009, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    So approx 4 weeks a year of all good with a little lead time either side seasonally adjusted.
     
  2. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    If that is your definition then yes.

    That would fit just about any resort in Australia by a similar definition (all runs open and in pretty good condition). Some like Buller would love that, others like Charlottes would think that was a little lean.
     
  3. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well, not exactly. Falls Creek has the most reliable cover in Victoria.

    If we take an "average" season (not one like this season), then I'd say anytime between last week in July and the first two weeks in September are about a 75% chance of everything being open.
     
    #53 Sandy, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  4. Ozpow

    Ozpow Hard Yards

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    #54 Ozpow, Sep 14, 2009
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  5. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Falls Creek is a beautiful place for sure but the chance of being there when the Maze is all open with good cover and you can ski in ski out on snow covered roads to the car park appears to be about 4 weeks out of a season of 16 weeks. That is about a 25% chance a season whichever way you spin it, seasonally adjusted.

    Falls Creek is a very nice family and beginner hill and for 25% of a season, seasonally adjusted, no doubt, it is quite beautiful and has a few more challenging runs. The marketing of the resort however appears to overstate the 25% rule by a factor of 4 especially the “snow covered roads\ski in ski out†bit.

    Hence, the things to do before I die comment.
     
  6. Ozpow

    Ozpow Hard Yards

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    Dr WD - probably right 4-6wks in an average season 6-8 wks in an above average season up to 10 weeks in an epic season like '00 or '04. Makes the super pass fun (and somewhat affordable) for Hotham FC and PB skiers/riders to take their pick at a given time during the height of the season.
     
  7. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    You don't listen real good do yer?? [​IMG]

     
    #57 Sandy, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  8. Ozpow

    Ozpow Hard Yards

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    In fact the season extended 2000 season had all terrain available for 16 of 18 weeks - I skied Mary's Slide at Hotham mid-October with a 1.5m cover - the base was close to 1m in the 1st week of June too. Dream seasons can happen once in a while.
     
  9. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Probably about the same marketing as Thredbo Dr WD. It is good top to bottom on all runs (dream run, both supertrails, true blue, cannonball, little beauty, funnel web, golf course) at best probably 4 weeks of the season. That is 25% of a 16 week season, seasonally adjusted no doubt, yet the marketing of the resort appears to overstate the 25% rule by a factor of 4.

    I could change that for Buller and fractionally reword it if you want. I could then change it from either of those to Perisher and 8 weeks and 50% and factor of 2. Hotham probably falls somewhere in between, as in reality so does Falls which on an average season is probably more like 6-7 weeks (last week of July to first week of September as I stated earlier).
     
  10. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Based on my experiences over the years I still think "the experience" is being overstated by FC with the "ski in\ski out snow covered roads paradise" marketing campaigns but at last we appear top be witnessing a glimpse of honesty instead of parochialism and marketing hype. At least in this thread anyway.

    Thank you
     
  11. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Being able to ski down snow covered roads at Falls Creek, 12-13 years out of 15 (in late July) is statisically significant. It means that in the warmest period of human history, you can ski down snow covered roads at Falls Creek 80-86% of the time in late July.
     
  12. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you narrow the time frame enough you will get the magic figure of 100%
     
  13. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don't HAVE to. The difference is that I was ACTUALLY THERE. That means I can't cherry pick any day to suit my statistical ends.

    I was there 4 days that include the last weekend in July..... 15 years out of 17, picked by somebody ELSE.
     
    #63 Sandy, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  14. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Dr WD - you are moving the goal posts or are being suitably vague. Initially you gave this requirement:
    "Falls Creek is a beautiful place for sure but the chance of being there when the Maze is all open with good cover and you can ski in ski out on snow covered roads to the car park"

    That is a number of different things.
    1) The Maze Open with good cover
    2) Ski in ski out
    3) Ski on snow covered roads to the car park

    1) I think is probably about 6 weeks of the year on average - some years 10-12 weeks some years 1-2 weeks!

    3) Much the same as 2.

    2) This varies across the village. Some areas this would be 10-12 weeks of the 16 week season on average (with some seasons even longer, some less). Other areas this would be more like the 6 weeks for 3) due to their location in the village. Those in the bowl area would be at the longer length, those up near parallel st would be similar, those near the home trail into the quad chair would be similar. Those in the centre part of the village would be more like 6 weeks.

    All resorts market to their peak conditions. Perisher has marketed for years to have "4 interlinked ski areas" but I have been there plenty of times when they are not interlinked.

    If what you are trying to say is that "Falls Creek isn't at its peak condition for the entire length of the season yet the peak condition is what they use in marketing" then yes I would agree. If you are going to level that criticism then you have to level exactly the same criticism at every resort in Australia.

    Heck have a go at Queensland while you are at it "beautiful one day, perfect the next" - I have been there when it was horrible 2 days in a row but they don't market that!

     
  15. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    No goal posts moving at all.

    You guys are only repeating what I have been saying for years.

    Resort marketing is misleading and parochial based information is always inaccurate.
     
  16. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    What - that travel destinations market their best face?

    Is there anyone on the planet that doesn't know that?
     
  17. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Your goal pots just blew right off the field .............

    What are you actually defending here ?

    The right to spin ?
     
  18. MisterMxyzptlk

    MisterMxyzptlk Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Was the Maze open this year?
     
  19. Benn0

    Benn0 Old n' Crusty

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    Yep, I've been there in late August 2006 and 2008, one year we had to walk everywhere from our exy skiin/skiout accom, the other we could ski right down to the accom further down the village. 2006 was bad everywhere in Oz, but 2008 at Falls was really good...... I think it still lives up to the hype.
     
    #69 Benn0, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  20. foxhound

    foxhound First Runs

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    There have been some wonderful contributions to 'alpine resort spin' during the season from Falls Creek and more recently Perisher. Falls Creek marketing seems to have 'taken a chill pill' during the season, perhaps realising that quantity of media releases does not necessarily correlate with quality.
     
  21. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Do you ever see any marketing for anything? The use of spin by marketing of all products in commonplace. Why single out Falls?

    Is everyone happy that drinks Coke?
    Do all women that eat Special K loose 10kg and go and buy a bikini?
    Do anti aging creams actually work?

    Marketing is all about selling the product in the best possible light. All companies do it.

    But why am I explaining the bleeding obvious to you when I know you already know this but are just choosing to ignore a million other examples and crucify one in a typical Dr WD way?
     
    #71 Ian D, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  22. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Yes
     
    #72 Ian D, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  23. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    #73 Ian D, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
  24. foxhound

    foxhound First Runs

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    That Thredbo spin is fabulous. I remember the last time I visited Thredbo I was trudging across plenty of bare concrete in ski boots; so the walking part is very familiar, but the snow in the village is certainly not.

    Examining the photo more closely, it seems that the 'falling snow' might have been super-imposed, as it magically avoids sticking to the people pictured or any of their equipment (e.g. goggles). So that 'Thredbo village scene' may therefore never have actually happened.

    I could probably start a compendium of Australian alpine resort spin with the vast array of material on offer.
     
    #74 foxhound, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  25. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    "crucify", ya reckon. Don't you think that is being just a little irrational. Why so defensive ? Am I endangering your contra deals or something ?

    I challenge you to prove I have ever "crucified" any resort.

    Parochialism is what maintains the status quo. It is what allows costs to creep up, service to fall down and myths to be spoken as fact. All information based on resort parochialism is disingenuous. It serves no worthy purpose or a reliable information source for the average skiing customer.

    We skied Thredbo, Falls Creek and Perisher this year and we had good season of skiing. That is 29 days on snow. Almost a whole month and I tell it like I found it and don't spin anything.

    Maybe you should talk to your mates at Falls Creek and get them to market the strengths of the resort instead of the myths. Strengths like family resort and excellent beginner runs and wide variety of on hill accommodation and the new shuttle bus service and drive to lodge access instead of "iconic lifts" and "powder stashes" and "snow covered roads" and "advanced terrain" and "excellent conditions" and "full cover" when the most interesting part of the hill is shut.
     
    #75 dawooduck, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  26. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Mt McKay eh! [​IMG] Thats a bit like PB offering up Mt Tate or Thredbo offering Ramshead as part of the "resort experience".

    Doesn't matter how you spin it Ian. FC will still spin it hardest of all.

    I see that current conditions at Falls Creek are still "Extensive" and "Good". [​IMG]
     
    #76 dawooduck, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2013
  27. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Maybe you should have a chat to your mates at Perisher who are currently reporting "fantastic skiing" for today with a top temp of 9 degrees. Apparently "Riders raved about the snow conditions today" at Thredbo where it got to 13 degrees!

    In case you missed Falls report this morning :
    Snow conditions will be icy early and softening throughout the day. Excellent weather for spring skiing/boarding.

    But I forgot in Dr WD terminology only Falls puts a positive spin on things [​IMG]

    For the record yes I would market Falls differently but no I don't think they are any worse than any of the other resorts. I would do a lot of things differently if I ran a resort, but I don't so that is immaterial.
     
    #77 Ian D, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2013
  28. benchives

    benchives Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I am reading alot of subjectivity in the defence of some arguments here, which is fine, if your opinion matters.

    Clearly for some it doesn't.
     
  29. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Extensive - 14/15 lifts open, how would you describe it?
     
    #79 Ian D, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  30. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I don't have any mates remember. I pay to play which gives me choice. I don't make resort comparisons and you started the "look over there", "everyone does it" befuddlement.

    My original comment was; things to do before I die "ski Falls Creek with everything open and snow covered roads", why, because I reckon it would be a pleasant and unique experience AND it is the last and most elusive Australian ski resort experience left to do for me.

    Glad to see some honesty once again in the marketing program. All resorts spin but, for the record I think FC is woeful at marketing their pleasant family resort. The marketing is disingenuous and does more harm than good IMHO. Thredbo did something about their hop to bottom issue and Falls Creek has done something about their resort access problem. These things don't happen if no one discusses the issues.
     
  31. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Withe the words available I would describe it as "moderate" and "soft".
     
    #81 dawooduck, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  32. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    We're talking about DWD's duck, as in "moderate in size and soft". [​IMG]
     
    #82 Sandy, Sep 15, 2009
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  33. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    They don't have "soft", they are still using the system agreed to by all the Vic resorts but some have varied from it since.

    They have:
    Closed, Patchy, Fair, Good, Very Good, Excellent.

    By those definitions and agreed by all the Vic resorts a while ago the definition is

    Good = Almost complete cover on open runs with occasional obstacle that doesn't impede skiing/boarding

    From my understanding they have basically all of Sun Valley open, and parts of the summit. That leaves parts of the summit and the maze shut. The maze constitutes a small percentage of the volume of skier access at the resort.

    If I were rating it, yes I would probably go either moderate or extensive. It is a close call between the 2 at the moment and I would need more first hand knowledge to call between the 2.

    They don't report "soft", "firm packed" etc as they believe that it varies too much over the day.

    As for marketing McKay, I agree with you. It is the last thing I would be pushing, I would market the resort totally differently but it isn't my resort to market.

    Oh I pay my way as well. I ski more than one resort each year and over the years have seen each resort at its best and worst. Pleased that Falls in full cover is your last great experience in Australia. How was your skiing at Baw Baw through the trees on a quiet mid week after 40cm of fresh overnight? It was fantastic for me thanks.
     
  34. foxhound

    foxhound First Runs

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    I don't recall seeing any kat-skiing on Mt McKay this season. Not wishing to engage directly in this entertaining contretemps, but as a question of fact, did it ever actually happen?
     
  35. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    "Moderate" and "Fair"
     
  36. luvthabumps

    luvthabumps A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    if I was doing the report last week I would have said fair to good cover in areas open with spring conditions and firm snow softening during the day. ( and getting back to accom was not easy with trails open that abruptly had 50-100m stretches of mud.

    my 2c

    FWIW they have way better cover than Buller ATM IMO
     
  37. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    but not good enough to bother
     
    #87 currawong, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  38. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Moderate / Extensive
    Good / Fair

    Your opinion is one lower than either that the ski patrol report - not employed by lift company by the way. Did you spend any time on Drovers/Main St/Hwy 83/Ruined etc, I suspect cover there is still close to Very good whereas Summit would be Patchy so it is a case of splitting hairs and personal judgements. Part of the resort (and their key demographic as you say - lower intermediate/family) all has a very good cover, the advanced patchy.

    Ruined:
    [​IMG]

    Towers:
    [​IMG]

    Drovers:
    [​IMG]

    Vs

    Perisher = Fantastic
    Thredbo = Skiers raving about snow conditions

    And you have issues with Falls Creek (yet again) but haven't started anything in the PB or Thredbo forums.

    Whatever.
     
    #88 Ian D, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  39. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    No I just spent the week dinking around on the internet in a luxury 5 star hotel in the carpark defending the realm with a volley of web cams whilst reliving "dream seasons" in Baw Baw.

    Hang on I do recall doing 3 turns on Drovers/Main St/Hwy 83/Ruined in the lovely sunny weather. Glorious it was with a nice backdrop of Mt Mckay and Mt Bogong. The snow was nice and slow so we could take in the sights of these picturesque peaks and search out a ribbon of snow to get us as close to the lodge as possible.

    Nice lodge too. Build by the german old timers and run by the sons of the old timers. Interesting people with stories to tell about the good old days and the changes over the years.

    This has all got very weird. You don't actually read what people post do you?

    [​IMG]
     
    #89 dawooduck, Sep 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  40. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    FWIW

    on the 0-7 scale for cover in the public reports section of the snow reports on this site, I don't think I've given a rating above 5 (moderate: on many runs) all season. this is because of poor cover in the maze and other north facing areas like last hoot, milky way

    OTOH, until fairly recently, the surface has usually been pretty good on the days when I've been there (this is not a coincidence) so I've often said that specific areas were excellent.

    overall it's been a frustrating, rather disappointing season with some very nice bits along the way. but falls still beat the pants off the pathetic cover we had at Buller for SIC (and I don't think it ever improved there)
     
  41. Scott No Mates

    Scott No Mates One of Us

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    I spent last week at Falls, yes the cover is deteriorating but the bottom of Wombats at the end of the day is still better than Thredbo after 10.00am. The Gully has poor coverage (it may even be closed for skiing as there are significant bare patches). As for Summit - runs like Apres Vous & Exhibition still have great cover albeit softening and difficult to ski after mid-morning (it takes a hammering from the sun), The Y's were very thin with only one chute worth skiing. Over the back, Boomerang and South Face were good but with the warmth were firm/icy at the start of the day, softening as the temps rose and becoming quite sluggish after lunch.St Elmos was holding up quite well although very firm/icy until it warmed up. Although I didn't ski on Saturday there wasn't a freeze overnight leading to very sluggish conditions all over the mountain. Areas such as Towers and Drovers were holding up very well and still quite fast up until 2-3pm.

    Spring skiing (and it is mid-Sept) is about understanding the mountain and how the sun moves around affecting different parts at different times of the day. Once this is understood, you can still get a good day's skiing in.

    As for the home trails at present, I could see a few bare patches on the aqueduct but getting to some of the lower lodges including Attunga was still pretty close to ski in/ski out as the snow was still down to the end of Arlberg St.
     
  42. tbnext

    tbnext One of Us

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    My call,

    1) Falls has a v cool village, its on and about snow, I prefer Thredbo, I can still walk about Thredbo in heels. If you do this at Falls you may die. PS Skiing from your lodge to the lifts at Falls is Unique. Please check you can actually ski before you try. My brother (who can ski) got taken out by a snowmobile once. I have seen many beginners cry.

    2) Hotham "village" sucks in every way, has a few OK bars miles apart

    3) Hotham has some V V excellent inbounds terrain, sure it takes you three lifts and a long skate exit every time but it is good. Falls apparently has some but four turns doesnt count for me.

    4) Falls has atmosphere, Harvey hour, falling out of the Frying pan, jelly beans at the Cedarwood (still there??). Hotham has none-unless pashing snowboarders at the General counts.

    5) Falls apparently has some new "visions of the Gold Coast stuff"-um not sure, havent seen it, probably hate it.

    6) Falls runs, lifts etc are completely boring, if they are not flat they are way too short. Hotham is inbounds way too short but in no way flat.

    7) If you are not lazy Hothanm possibly has the best slack country terrain in Australia.

    8) Im never going to Falls again, I have been 4 times.

    To each his own. PS I do not have kids.
     
  43. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    As a northerner, and someone who's skied south recently... I agree with DWD. Frame that. Burn it to CD.

    Falls has perhaps the least vertical on offer, over its main runs, of any resort.

    The access adds to the issues.

    But, FC is a magic place to ski or board for all levels of customer.

    DWD... its a mindset. Enjoy the event, sieze the day... Don't be so tight in the brain, dude. Relax.... I can enjoy skiing Selwyn, ffs.

    But yep, accessing Falls, and coming to terms with its Flatness.... is a bit hard for those with limited acceptance of the real world.

    [​IMG]
     
    #93 VSG, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  44. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    We made some nice tracks in the brown cream above the Ys and had a fine time jumping off the "cornice" accessible by a ribbon of snow through the shrubberies on St Elmos and hammering down the frozen\cream flats to the lift. Got some air off the rocks through the knolls and skied the natural bumps on exhibition. We went tree hunting as much as possible and had some fun in shadow & quartz ridge and managed to get pretty close to the lodge on Parallel St with a bit of skating along the skidoo only road and a stumble through the undergrowth.

    Flatness, that is a given. It is what makes the place so comfortable for the target market. Nothing wrong with flatness as long as its not inflated by the promise of far off peaks and "advanced" skiing. You can get quality flatness in many places in Australia but the Falls Creek variety is particularly good. Best flatness in Australia. An Instructors dream flatness which is probably why you don't see very many flying wedges and stiff legged fear stance going on at Falls Creek.

    Magical, for all levels, ya kidding me. Had a good time yep. Go some great footage of the kids in the park going big and the Interschools races on the hill was a well run event that FC SS and race department put a lot of effort into. Of course they where well paid at $17 a race entry but they did deliver. The bumps course was very good. A real carnival that just needed some music and a nice snow bar to really make it world class. The opening ceremony was a home town good effort. The backward telemarketer being the highlight.

    24hrs before we arrived in FC we skied excellent fresh snow on MT P, a world cup bump run on the Ridge and put fresh tracks on BC summit in lovely new snow. After 11:00am the sun exposed slopes went to slurpy. We didn't do Smiggins because ....... it is of no interest and we didn't ski Thredbo because their is no All Resorts pass to buy and enjoyable spring skiing Thredbo is limited.

    You don't actually read what I post either do you VSG ? "limited acceptance of the real world", chuckle. Web cams and crayons ain't the real world old man.

    The mindset is about honest posting to give accurate information not slab posting marketing nonsense and riding the bosses pony.

    anyway, its Spring and another season is done and dusted.
     
  45. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Seems there is plenty to agree on then Dr WD.

    The "Ribbon of snow" you refer to above St Elmos is almost always like that. In fact I don't recall it ever not being like that. The area is wind blown and snow never accumulates there - it all ends up further down St Elmos which I skied nearly waist deep powder in this year. That was on a 15cm fall - the top was still almost bare (as it always is) but the 15cm that tried to fall all was blown down to pile up further down resulting in 60+cm of freshies further down. Complaining it is bare is simply not understanding the local geography of the ski area.

    Falls has a lot to offer for the right market but I agree they have split messages in their marketing.

    On one hand they try to promote McKay and awesome advanced skiing which I have said plenty of times before I think is the wrong approach. On the other hand the snow reporting (done by ski patrol - not lift company and not run by lift company) focusses on the areas where 90% of people that goto Falls actually ski. That is Sun Valley. The report on anything but awesome days focusses almost totally on the conditions from Drovers to Ruined because Ski Patrol know that is where everyone will be.

    The variation in quality of conditions is very marked and while many of those runs can be awesome the Maze can be shut and much of the Summit marginal.

    Just as at Perisher you can have great skiing of Eyre or mud at Smiggins. Should the report focus on the mud at Smiggins or the good cover elsewhere?

    Ideally it should cover everything but no resort does that with any consistency.

    My ONLY issue with your comments is that you consistently target Falls and criticise them for doing what every other resort does.

    Thredbo markets a snowy village for example but I don't see your gripe about that.

    Falls has a lot to offer the right visitor and little to offer a different type of visitor and that can be said about any resort.

    The comment you make of not reading others posts can be laid back at your feet as well as you consistently ignore points of agreement and make ridiculous insinuations for no other apparent reason than to be objectionable.
     
  46. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Parochial, vested interests and marketed falsehoods style postings are my "target". Basing snow reports on 30% of the hill is disingenuous. I agree that for all resorts there is plenty of scope to give a more accurate description.

    I am a long term consumer of the ski product who has introduced many people to the ski experience and I want them to keep coming back year after year so the industry is vibrant and self renewing . I don't really care where people ski as long as they feel that they are getting a decent ROI. Ski Resorts are a successful business that doesn't need to be protected from consumer comments. Cost is the biggest contributor to skier number churn not conditions but in NSW PB is attracting skiers from other resorts based on conditions and reliability.

    The "scene" is such a fleeting moment in time. Parochial protection of "the scene" is what stifles progress, innovation and change. IMHO it is all about engaging the customer and not dictating terms based on an resort specific insular mindset primarily focused on "protecting the team". The Super Pass did not happen on its own and it has been a big success BUT it does open up the three resorts to a whole new experienced skier market that are chasing new intermediate and advanced ski experiences. IMHO the experienced returning skier market is the backbone of the industry and they will expect that the marketing delivers on its "promises".

    Thank you for the opportunity to engage in this conversation.




     
  47. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    I actually agree with pretty much all that WD and have been saying pretty much the same but in different words for over a decade.
     
  48. Little Tiger

    Little Tiger A Local

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    It is like that every morning from 7am until around 10am(weather dependant) but most mornings it is quite firm... so you can hardly call it porridge down the bottom
     
    #98 Little Tiger, Sep 16, 2009
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  49. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Good natural top to bottom most mornings from 7am - 10am. You seriously are kidding aren't you.

    How many times was lovers leap or the schuss good this year?
     
  50. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yah, didnt ski them this season, were good for about 2-3 weeks last year, even Dream Run was good. Did get some snowy village days this year though. Truth is they will always sell the dream of the cream, not the reality of the average. Its the best days you remember anyway, unless you have a really really bad one of course.