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review falls creek and hotham

Discussion in 'Falls Creek' started by andy222009, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. Little Tiger

    Little Tiger A Local

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    This is what you said
    As you know I have skied Thredbo every August for 10 years, and Falls Creek every weekend EXCEPT August for about 4 years... (including 2000) and nearly every weekend that I did not ski at Falls I skied Thredbo... so 6 years plus...

    Thredbo is top to bottom in good condition - according to your description - ie not porridge for MOST of the season....

    The seasons I skied Falls I always ended up at Thredbo AFTER Falls had closed although the last few trips down the supertrail may not have been good condition it certainly holds out long after Wombats at Falls does... and LONG after the Falls Roads are not skiable....

    Sorry Thredbo is skiable top to bottom long after Falls is no longer ski in ski out.... is it not porridge? YES if you get up and make first lifts it is easily non-porridge... in fact you will get hours out of it...
    If you insist on sleeping off your hangover you will ski slop especially in Spring... it is simple common-sense... get up early, ski early, go home and have a pleasant afternoon walking by the river, having a picnic lunch on the balcony, wandering around teh area somewhere...

    If you wish to ski all day get good at skiing slush bumps for the home run.... beats carrying your skis and walking in ski boots at Falls everytime! Certainly beats being nearly run down by the resort staff in their 4WD on the roads that are closed to "make it ski in ski out"
     
    #101 Little Tiger, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2013
  2. snowobsessedgirl

    snowobsessedgirl Hard Yards

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    I doubt it ran this year as you generally need 1.5 m of snow. It didn't run in 07 either, does anyone know if it ran last year? Does anyone know if the kat skiing at Hotham runs more often?

    I also thought the maze was pretty good in the first week of August this year- the bottom of rollercoaster & jigsaw and the start of last tango were dodgy but the rest had good snow cover. There were 1 or 2 days where the snow was like glue though... but overall we had a great time in the trees between the runs as almost everything was covered.

    We managed to ski in and out the whole time, but it was pretty dodgy by the end of the week, and I'm surprised the roads stayed open as long as they did. Last year we were able to ski in/out on the roads in mid september.
     
    #102 snowobsessedgirl, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  3. VSG

    VSG Crayon Master Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    yep. I did.
     
    #103 VSG, Sep 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  4. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Tiger - ok perhaps I should have refined my description "bottom third not porridge by 10am". I don't buy a lift ticket to ski 2 hours or if putting kids in ski school for one or two runs.
     
  5. Little Tiger

    Little Tiger A Local

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    Ian - Usually it is just thawing by 10... 1130(my usual end of lesson time) would be the slop start time roughly I'd say...
    I usually ski 830-2(ish) (I tend to stay high after end of lesson until return for lunch) that is 5.5 hours a day... on a season pass that I use around 35-40 days... some days much more hours a few less(wind+rain sees an early finish)

    Say we calculate on 30 days 165hours skiing for $1000 roughly... that is $6- and hour kind of rate...

    If you really cannot ski down at 2 stop at 12 and it won't be that much an hour still...

    Any way - the point is Falls is slop earlier if anything... and certainly not ski in ski out for the same number of weeks/days that Thredbo is top to bottom - it just isn't... I enjoyed Falls when I went but don't sell it as what it isn't...
     
  6. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think a key difference between Thredbo top to bottom and Falls wombats is how easy it is to avoid slop. At Thredbo it seemed to me that the majority of runs require you to return the bottom of the mountain, through the slop. At Falls, I think I can count my wombats runs for the season on one hand. Of course, Inter suffers from the same problem as wombats and I do like to ski there when it's good. not too many runs there this year, between late opening of the lift and less than ideal conditions much of the time.
     
  7. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    How many punters get to ski 30 days a season? 7 is a big season for most.

    Falls is still ski in ski out for a lot (certainly not all) properties now - it has snowmaking right down both home trails now.

    Thredbo is still selling snow in the village on its marking now. What is the difference? When was snow last in the village this season? All I am saying is both (and in fact all resorts) sell their peak. I am not defending any of them, just saying they all do it.

    Falls promoting snow covered roads is no different than Thredbo promoting snow in the village.
     
  8. Stratus

    Stratus A Local

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    No, no statistics here but from the average punter I havn't been up to falls once in the last 5 years where I couldn't ski in / ski out. Maybe i'm just lucky but I have never had a problem with them promoting a ski in - ski out atmosphere.
     
  9. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    WHEN were you there? And where did you stay?
     
    #109 Sandy, Sep 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  10. Rush

    Rush Pool Room

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    'Ski in - ski out' is all relative.

    I last skied at Falls in September 2005. The roads were closed. One of the surviving memories of my trip was watching a punter snow-plough down a road covered with about 1 cm of snow ...you could hear the skis grinding against the asphalt.

    Was he enjoying 'ski in, ski out' conditions?
     
  11. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    No idea but I have heard Perisher confidently claim that the Queenslanders were having a ball on 100m of brown snow slurry on front valley in the last week of September. I don't know I never went and asked them. Apparently (according the the official report) Thredbo skiers were "raving about the snow conditions" a couple of days ago when it was 13 degrees.

    I once took a friend to Smiggins who had never seen snow before. We skiied for a couple of hours in torrential rain and you couldn't wipe the smile off his face. Terms like "this is awesome", "best snow I have ever seen", "I am having a ball" all passed his lips. Without him there I wouldn't have gotten out of the car and complained about the pathetic conditions but his infectious enjoyment actually made it a very memorable and enjoyable experience!

    That is the difficulty in any subjective terminology and we have seen in on the public reports for years. One day one person will rate the conditions as very good or excellent and another person skiing the same resort on the same day will rate them as poor.

    It is all personal perceptions and everyones are different.
     
  12. crazyman

    crazyman Hard Yards

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    Ian D, you have a good point there...its what you make of it!
     
  13. Ulmerhutte

    Ulmerhutte First Runs

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    Exactly.

    I ski here (mainly Falls) and OS. Here does not compare to St Anton in terms of snow, vertical, etc, etc. Do I have fun at Falls? You betcha'!
     
  14. Stratus

    Stratus A Local

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    Did he have a big smile on his face?
     
    #114 Stratus, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  15. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Just don't make anything negative of it and all will be well in the ski world.
     
  16. Benn0

    Benn0 Old n' Crusty

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    I'm just glad someone thought to put up some web cams and a AWS so I can check conditions myself, rather than relying on the marketing spin.
     
  17. I.P. Freely

    I.P. Freely First Runs

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    Of course he was enjoying 'skso' - you enjoy it even more when your using rental skis and don't care about the bases or edges [​IMG]
     
    #117 I.P. Freely, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  18. Rush

    Rush Pool Room

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    Hah! Not really..he looked terrified with an 'Oh s***' expression on his face!

    The problem with that little snow on top of asphalt...there is enough for you to go fast (especially when the ski is flat) but its really hard to slow down.

    If you plough/edge too hard your skis hit the road and its faceplant time...onto asphalt.
     
    #118 Rush, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  19. Ian D

    Ian D Pool Room Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Or don't single out one resort constantly and turn a feathered back to all the other resorts doing similar things.

    There are plenty of things in the Aussie snow sport industry that deserve criticism and they are wide ranging and they don't relate solely to any one resort.

    Some of the many issues I have:

    Ticketing
    - Why can't you buy tickets in advance at significant discount as you can OS?
    - Why can't you buy 5 of 7 or 7 of 10 or 5 day anyday type tickets where you can bulk purchase but don't have to use them on consecutive days
    - Why aren't there "family tickets" (2A, 2C basically getting the 2nd child free)
    - Why are children charged so much? Children are accompanied by full paying adults and if you get them young you have a skier for life and one that drags their parents back. Kids (up to 16) ski free on lots of deals in Canada. Why aren't similar incentives in place here?
    - Price, why is NZ so much cheaper than Aus, similar length season and most things in NZ are more expensive than the equivalent in Aus yet tickets aren't. Why?

    Marketing
    - Marketing what the resorts are not. They all do it.
    - Mentality of they are here this week we have to get as much money from them before they leave in case they never come back. That encourages them not to return! Show some goodwill. If it is crap and raining say it is crap and raining go enjoy some of the other activities in the area.

    Accommodation
    - Prices and marketing as if they are 5 star when they are in reality 3 star. Creates an expectation and a guarantee of disappointment.
    - Refusal by many properties to move from the 5/2 day bookings. Many people now work flexi time and want 3 or 4 days in the snow. Stop treating everyone like they are still working in the 70's

    This is not a exhaustive list, just some examples.

    There are many good things about the Aussie snow fields but IMO there also seems to me to be an industry wide 70's attitude to charging and service levels that the rest of the world has moved passed. IMO it is crippling the industry here yet the more the local skier market shrinks (and it is regardless of the carefully worded press releases) the more prices get jacked up to cover the falling numbers. It is only a one way spiral from there.

    Of course these are just my opinions. I might be totally wrong about everything. It wouldn't be the first time.
     
    #119 Ian D, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  20. MisterMxyzptlk

    MisterMxyzptlk Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    that's kinda funny and disturbing at the same time
     
    #120 MisterMxyzptlk, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  21. Ulmerhutte

    Ulmerhutte First Runs

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    Have to say I struggle to understand thi mentality, yet it seems so prevalent. Happy/satisfied customers = more likely to be return customers, and more likely to give you free advertising = more revenue.
     
    #121 Ulmerhutte, Sep 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 18, 2013
  22. snowchasser

    snowchasser First Runs

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    Firstly, you can stay in Dinner Plain during the ski season and not have to pay the traditional 5/2/7 nights accomm to ski at hotham. You can stay 3,4,6 nights. This attracts more people as it flexible.

    Secondly, many European accomm at ski resorts (chalets, apartments more so)are 7 nights. You won't get 2,3,4,5,6 in Europe during the ski season.

    Yes, make it for free for children to ski at least until late childhood. It's overly expensive for families. I agree 100%. This will attract more families in my opinion. It's become too expensive for families these days to ski. It's attracting an exclusive following unfortunately these days. This should change.

    I've travelled throught Europe and have been to many European ski resorts and alpine towns/villages. Yes again, skiing is much cheaper- but think of the population in these countries and how many more people ski than here in Vic and NSW. It's a part of life in Canada, Switzerland, Austria,France,Italy. These countries are snow covered in winter. No advertising necessary...it's a way of life. It's not like that in Australia. Probably won't ever be. Canadian and European resorts can afford to offer much cheaper lift passes. Vic and NSW resorts can't afford for it to be cheaper.

    Lift prices have to be as expensive as they are due to snowmaking equipment and snow making expenses. Without snowmaking,there would have been no 2009 ski season. We just don't have the altitude like Canada, Europe.

    The resorts need to start thinking differently and offer diversity and flexibility for people. They should introduce zones. For example, ski/board certain runs for this price. Example: ski the Big D,Summit and Sun run for $???. Ski Heavenly and village area for $???. Ski Orchard,Heavenly,village for $???. The more runs the more expensive your lift ticket.

    Children in Europe ski free in many resorts until age 12 at least. At least introduce a beginner only pass for children-only the beginner runs.