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Question Rust Damage From Road Salt

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Jonathan_P, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. Jonathan_P

    Jonathan_P One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    First year I have driven to Perisher and not used skitube, even though I washed the underbody of the car when I got home from every snow trip aware that they put road salt down, clearly that is not enough.

    Now I notice that rust has formed on my exhaust system and some suspension components on my car.

    Any ideas on the best way of cleaning this off or should I not be concerned?

    First time I have ever seen something like this, the car is just over a year old which is a bit of a worry.



     

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  2. GS

    GS Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I wouldn't be concerned about the exhaust system, and suspension parts always start rusting due to paint being chipped off from stones and road debris etc. Panels, door sills, wheel arches etc are more susceptible to rust and corrosion
     
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  3. Tonester

    Tonester Lift Line Nazi Ski Pass: Gold

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    They salt Kosciuszko Road? You sure about that?
     
  4. Donzah

    Donzah Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Paging @Telemark Phat
     
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  5. Jonathan_P

    Jonathan_P One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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  6. Mister Tee on XC Skis

    Mister Tee on XC Skis A Local Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    The use of salt on carriageways that are subjected to snow and ice in Ozstriya is news to me.
     
  7. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    They do it to attract the Brumbies for the tourists to gag over.
     
  8. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    You should not be concerned.
     
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  9. crackson

    crackson Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    The knp snowploughs have salt spreaders built into the back of them.

    I have followed them hundreds of times while a snowmaker.
     
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  10. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I would venture that any angst about salt on snowy roads in Australia is derived from references to 4WD beach driving.
     
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  11. robbo mcs

    robbo mcs One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    They use tonnes and tonnes and salt in the road up to perisher. If you have ever driven directly behind them when they are spraying salt, the amount they use is impressive. Your car is most likely to cop it if you drive up early in the morning when it is freshly salted, and when there is slush on the road. The slush sprays up everywhere and leaves salt. Less of a problem when the road is dry. It is definitely a problem for people who drive up a lot. I know people who have had significant rust problems in cars. Also, speak to any of the local mechanics, they will tell you stories;)

    The main problem areas are as you have identified, underneath the car, especially exhaust hangers, suspension components etc. Chromed components seem to do badly as well. The body work is less of a risk.

    At the end of the season I get under my car with a pressure sprayer and give it a good clean. Probably the best way to clean it is to drive while it is raining heavily on a non-salted road.

    FWIW Perisher and Parks allegedly treat the exposed components of their vehicles underneath with a lanolin mix. Messy, but effective. Something like this https://crcindustries.com.au/products/crc-lanoshield-350g-3150.html
     
  12. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is what happens when the local animals lick the salt residue off your car. This was at Island Bend in July.
    They definitely salt the roads and car parks in KNP.
     

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  13. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    The Alpine Way, Kosciuszko Rd and the Snowy Mountains Highway are de-iced with both CaCl2 (in solution to quickly break up the ice) and NaCl to maintain a clear road for longer. I'm not sure what KNP use on the Guthega Rd or the Selwyn Rd, but If be surprised if they weren't at least using NaCl. The local council uses NaCl on its roads.

    I've never had an underbody issue with my 20 year old liberty.
     
  14. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Both of these compounds are awesome at causing a freezing point depression (essentially it lowers the freezing point of the ice and causes it to turn back into water).

    Just for some more science -> CaCl2 is far more effective at causing a freezing point depression than NaCl can, but is significantly more expensive to purchase (and hence why you will see NaCl used more often).
     
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  15. Jonathan_P

    Jonathan_P One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Clearly better at handling the alpine environment than my Hyundai:)
     
  16. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Interestingly enough. Im about 2 minutes from the beach. My second hand subaru came from a location (its 13 years old) that is about the same distance away.

    The Hyundai that my folks bought in 2013 has far more rust on it than the subaru does. Wonder if they put a coat on it or something....
     
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  17. crackson

    crackson Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Your exhaust is going to rust to bits with salt or not.

    Manufacturers only build exhausts to last the warranty period.

    This is why people fit full stainless systems.
     
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  18. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Or if you are a teenage male, replace the exhaust kit with a cat-back system so its LOUD.....

    (again, not that I would ever do that. Im mature......)
     
  19. crackson

    crackson Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Have been guilty of this.

    Commodore catback can be had for $200 versus 2-3k for stainless.

    Yep, it was loud as hell.
     
  20. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Any solute will depress the freezing point of water. CaCl2 is not only more effective than NaCl, since it is spread in solution it works much faster to break up ice which is already on the road. At the same time since its in solution it can more easily move off the road and isn't spread in the anticipation of ice forming. CaCl2 is also a little bit better environmentally since Ca is less toxic than Na and Ca is benefical to soils whilst Na isn't. However they are both pretty toxic with the chloride anion.
     
  21. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah CaCl2 dissociates into 3 ions insetad of 2 (NaCl).
    Thinking about it, while neither would be particularly good for your car, CaCl2 would be slightly better for the rust???

    Na's valent electrons are more easily lost than Ca's and it is this losing of electrons that causes the rust
     
  22. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Could be, my chemistry doesn't go far beyond soil science and the work I did on my honours looking at what de-icing salts did to alpine bog function.
     
  23. Moondog55

    Moondog55 One of Us

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    Doesn't ammonium nitrate and or potassium nitrate also work in a similar fashion? I'm sure I saw it on sale in New York labled as footpath de-icer salt
     
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  24. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yep. Did some reading and found some evidence

    Have a read of this paper (results section start on page 3)
    Quite interesting. It shows NaCL are far more corrosive than anyhting else
     
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  25. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    So from the paper I just read, my understanding is that potassium nitrate would behave the same way as NaCl (but is far more expensive to buy and has some other properties that make it undesirable (I.e. it is HIGHLY explosive if something goes wrong)

    Not sure about Aluminium nitrate
     
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  26. Jasper Schwarz

    Jasper Schwarz One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Oh my goodness. I just figured out my chemistry.

    The oxidation/reduction tables that we used for HSC. They show how easily a species undrgoes oxidation (which you may or may not know) which is a fancy word for rust.

    So in theory: The lower down the metal ions are, the more damage they would do to your car.

    In terms of what is a better deicer, In theory, the best deicer ever would be Cadmium (or gold) chloride. value for money though, different story
     
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  27. sly_karma

    sly_karma Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Our local council sprays mag chloride on key roads and streets a few hours before snow is expected. They claim the higher cost is offset by its greater efficacy and less rust.

    Out on the highways, the province uses granular salt or sand, depending on temperature. Salt is only good down to -8, below that they use straight sand. Above that it will be a salt/sand mix, around the freezing mark it will be 100% salt. In practice, not that much salt is needed as the mountain roads generally have colder temps. But when they do use it, they slather it on at 100 kg per km of highway.
     
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  28. skifree

    skifree A disciple of the blessed avi giraffe Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Linky?
     
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