Ski body furious

Rowdy

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

Fair point, correction taken!
 

Born2ski

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

CarveMan said:
That's pretty much my beef as well. It's taxation without representation and also duplicating many functions already in place with the local shires.

I agree.

Here's a question, when did all these RMBs come into place, what year ? And why ? Are there any other examples of this type of RMB structures used on other resorts in Australia, do they have any for the great barrier reef resorts ? Why only ski resorts ?
 
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CarveMan

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

My understanding is that the resorts were originally under the Forests Commission, then the Alpine Resorts Commission before moving to the RMB model in the early 90's.

It's not just the RMBs, there is a whole other layer above them called the ARCC.
 

Born2ski

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

CarveMan said:
It's not just the RMBs, there is a whole other layer above them called the ARCC.

WOW ! Starting to get more of an understanding about it after reading this site - http://www.arcc.vic.gov.au/resorts.htm

Looks like a BIG fat corporation with to much middle management.
 
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sly_karma

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

There's a perception that skiing in Australia is big business when in fact it's a small seasonal niche industry. Everyone around it seems to think that big cash is flying around when it's actually relatively tiny. All those years of glamorous marketing images are outdated and only the novelty value and powerful personal connections from over the decades remain. Yet most of the players seem to think there is almost limitless capacity in skiers' pockets to pay for arbitrary prices increases and new taxes and levies that add no value. Obviously those pockets are not bottomless and a new awareness of the product's comparative value in a world context has closed many of them off altogether.

Looks like the main resorts see the writing on the wall - hence the season pass price reductions - but the layers of fat built up in the regulatory side of things will be much harder to remove. Already there is little cash flow in the system to feed all those mouths, but they don't see that at all.
 

MisterMxyzptlk

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

sly_karma said:
There's a perception that skiing in Australia is big business when in fact it's a small seasonal niche industry. Everyone around it seems to think that big cash is flying around when it's actually relatively tiny. Already there is little cash flow in the system to feed all those mouths, but they don't see that at all.

Given this thread is about QANTAS..the parallels are strong
Back in the 50's when it was flying boats and Constellations and you wore suits to travel, flying was beyond the reach of ordinary folk..and QANTAS had a monoploy
The arrival of the 707/747 and the opening of airspace to more carriers has changed all that
Similarly on the Mountain..the arrival of mass produced mountain wear, accommodation and high speed/capacity lifts and better access to the fields has led to every level of society enjoying what was once a fairly elitist pastime.
Then the overseas destinations started spruiking
More choice, lower margins
It's a lethal combination for any business
 
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vet

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

Born2ski said:
CarveMan said:
That's pretty much my beef as well. It's taxation without representation and also duplicating many functions already in place with the local shires.

I agree.

Here's a question, when did all these RMBs come into place, what year ? And why ? Are there any other examples of this type of RMB structures used on other resorts in Australia, do they have any for the great barrier reef resorts ? Why only ski resorts ?

The ARC was accused of, eg, using Buller's $ for Hotham and Hotham's $ for falls etc so there was a catfight about 'equity and fairness' (or "I want his money for my hill). Later Commissioners and auditors - who still have a big red file full of things - found things that, somehow, resulted in 19 officials changing their careers. Then the ARMBs came into being, but there were was things like Thwaites. More recently there's a massive tsunami of stories flowing into politicians as people recite stories that "Hang on, he told me the exact opposite". A picture is forming and the parliamentarians know documents are falling off the backs of trucks.
 
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sly_karma

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

snow-pixie said:
sly_karma said:
There's a perception that skiing in Australia is big business when in fact it's a small seasonal niche industry. Everyone around it seems to think that big cash is flying around when it's actually relatively tiny. Already there is little cash flow in the system to feed all those mouths, but they don't see that at all.

Given this thread is about QANTAS..the parallels are strong
Back in the 50's when it was flying boats and Constellations and you wore suits to travel, flying was beyond the reach of ordinary folk..and QANTAS had a monoploy
The arrival of the 707/747 and the opening of airspace to more carriers has changed all that
Similarly on the Mountain..the arrival of mass produced mountain wear, accommodation and high speed/capacity lifts and better access to the fields has led to every level of society enjoying what was once a fairly elitist pastime.
Then the overseas destinations started spruiking
More choice, lower margins
It's a lethal combination for any business

You're right, the picture can change if the players want it to. We should never forget that despite only having tiny areas with skiable snow, all of Australia's resort areas lie in the most densely populated corner of the continent. There are 10 million people within 6 hours - the customer base does exist. Many ski regions around the world would love to have that kind of drive-to market potential. Now that skiing is a global business like any other, the Aussie market has to play to its strength: easy access. If it were priced in the same order of magnitude as what people have come to expect overseas, yet you can get in your own vehicle and scoot there for a weekend, that's an advantage no one else has. Of course the challenge is to bring the prices into line with world markets.
 
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CarveMan

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

I would love a straight-up explanation on exactly why leasehold land is still appropriate in resorts and why ARMBs are needed as opposed to being a part of the local municipality with elected officials.

There will be a lot of bleating saying 'we're special' and 'we're different' but I bet you will find it's all bullshit.

In fact I think I might write an article on this and question some of the ARMB members.
 
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KTI

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

I don't think anyone has mentioned airfares in getting to resorts, especially from places like Brisbane & Gold Coast.

Qantas has cancelled all Brisbane/Queenstown nonstop flights after 25 Aug, which means higher fares. Last year Jetstar flew twice a week Gold Coast/Queenstown nonstop all season, but none this year.

However, there are plenty of Qantas frequent flyer seats, via Auckland or even Wellington (from Brisbane, no Jetstar nonstop flightas to Christchurch anymore) but that involves an overnight stay. There are a couple of Air NZ/Virgin options, arriving in Queenstown same day as departing (via CHC) but being the more popular options, are not cheap.

Fares from Brisbane to Albury via Sydney have never been cheap & although Brisbane to Canberra is reasonable value, the transfer from Canberra is relatively expensive, due to size of vehicles being used. You can fly Brisbane to Cooma via Sydney, but again, small aircraft on Sydney/Cooma leg, mean high fares.

Last week (not this week), it was cheaper for a family to fly from Brisbane to Los Angeles in mid December, than fly to Queenstown on Air NZ/Virgin nonstop just before Sep school holidays.

So what cheap options are left ? Cheap fares to Sydney then drive to NSW resorts, or cheap fares to Melbourne & drive to Victorian resorts.

People have been spoilt for choice in past, but now with flight cutbacks & fuel prices, airfares have to rise, so the roadtrip or part road trip, will have to make a comback.

Just have those cruise controls set, or be prepared for those revenue raising speeeding fines !!!

Might be end of last minute ski holiday deals, unless you're driving.
 

skiflat

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

KTI said:
Last week (not this week), it was cheaper for a family to fly from Brisbane to Los Angeles in mid December, than fly to Queenstown on Air NZ/Virgin nonstop just before Sep school holidays.

People have been spoilt for choice in past, but now with flight cutbacks & fuel prices, airfares have to rise, so the roadtrip or part road trip, will have to make a comback.

Might be end of last minute ski holiday deals, unless you're driving.

So again, everyone should have booked last week or even now yeh ??
eek.gif
to LA yeh ?? Air Pacific ?


I can fly from Melbourne to Christchurch for $174 return on Virgin/Air NZ in June/July/August

Not bad for a last minute deal

Oh and fuel/oil prices are dropping FAST
 
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KTI

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

Great, but you still have to get your skis there & get to Queenstown somehow.

NZ has tradionally been a big market for Qlders, but it's getting harder for them to get to.

Many Qlders abandoned the idea of driving to to the OZ snow many years ago & don't want to go back to driving.

It's a long haul on very average roads from Qld.
 

skiflat

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

My point being you said it "might be the end of last minute ski holiday deals"

It isn't and it will never be

smile.gif



Oh and you do know that Virgin Australia fly Brisbane to Queenstown..... Just looked for Mid July and flights are $567 return on a connecting flight.

OH and Virgin still fly Non-Stop Brisbane to Queenstown too, but yes they will increase prices.... and if they can good on them.

It's not like anyone in the airline industry is making an adequate ROI
 
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KTI

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

skidown said:
My point being you said it "might be the end of last minute ski holiday deals"

It isn't and it will never be

HERE WE GO AGAIN.

DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND, AIRLINES WON'T NEED TO DUMP SEATS, IF THEY SIMPLY CANCEL FLIGHTS.

smile.gif



Oh and you do know that Virgin Australia fly Brisbane to Queenstown..... Just looked for Mid July and flights are $567 return on a connecting flight.

BUT PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GET UP AT 3AM TO GET A 6.45AM INT FLIGHT, TO THEN GO VIA SOMEWHERE LIKE AKL + DON'T FORGET TO ADD $50 FOR 23KGS OF CHECKED BAGGAGE & ALSO ANY EXTRA SEATS ARE MORE.

OH and Virgin still fly Non-Stop Brisbane to Queenstown too, but yes they will increase prices.... and if they can good on them.

It's not like anyone in the airline industry is making an adequate ROI
EXACTLY SO YOU DO UNDERSTAND SOME PRINCIPLES OF SUPPLY & DEMAND, WHICH IS WHY FLIGHTS TO QUEENSTOWN ARE BEING CUT.

+ CUTBACKS OTHER ROUTES TO FOLLOW
 
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skiflat

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

CarveMan said:
?????

The skiing out of Christchurch is much better.

Some people are only interested in Queesntown deals.......
 
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ladycamper

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

We could in the alternate, with our working visa scheme (poms etc), say that the regular minimum wage does not apply, and that either 75% of minimum wage, or no minimum wage at all, applies. That way asylum seekers (with work rights or if we allow it) or any backpackers could secure wages by their own negotiation. Our tourism industry is getting caned through international competition and our high dollar atm.
 

scullee

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

CarveMan said:
?????

The skiing out of Christchurch is much better.

It has always confused me why people chase skiing down at Queenstown when the skiing in Canterbury is that much better.
 
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Snorkler

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

ladycamper said:
We could in the alternate, with our working visa scheme (poms etc), say that the regular minimum wage does not apply, and that either 75% of minimum wage, or no minimum wage at all, applies. That way asylum seekers (with work rights or if we allow it) or any backpackers could secure wages by their own negotiation. Our tourism industry is getting caned through international competition and our high dollar atm.

Consequence of this is that you get a much more transient workforce in that industry, it becomes cheaper but the quality of service will drop considerably.

The hospitality industry is a prime example, the lower wage in that industry and lower incomes has meant that many who work in the industry are students and transient people, the service has suffered accordingly as they don't want to improve or they're not sticking around long enough to really care.
 
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CarveMan

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

That's already happened in the Ski Industry IMO.

There are plenty of 'Jobs' up there that used to be 'Professions'.

No one answer as to why but the nett result is a drop in service.
 

Snorkler

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

CarveMan said:
That's already happened in the Ski Industry IMO.

There are plenty of 'Jobs' up there that used to be 'Professions'.

No one answer as to why but the nett result is a drop in service.

Which is quite a contrast to the French in a way, especially in lift operations. This area is one of the hardest in which to get a job.... The only way being if you've completed maybe a couple of seasons elsewhere already and you speak some french, most positions are held by locals. They pay extremely well, get extremely good rosters and they fiercely guard their jobs each year. In summer those people usually work in a restaurant in the local area.
 
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just visiting

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

scullee said:
It has always confused me why people chase skiing down at Queenstown when the skiing in Canterbury is that much better.

I pop over to Queenstown for a night out every now and then during ski season. It's amazing how many Australians I meet who are over for a weeks skiing, are going home in a few days, and have only been skiing a few afternoons. But they've been out til 4am every night!

I think this is why q town is a destination over Cant
 
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MisterMxyzptlk

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

scullee said:
CarveMan said:
?????

The skiing out of Christchurch is much better.

It has always confused me why people chase skiing down at Queenstown when the skiing in Canterbury is that much better.

I don't go to Queenstown for the skiing..but I've been going at least once every winter since 1994.
And if you haven't skiid Coronet with 60cm of fresh on a good base you've missed some of the best skiing in the Southern Hemisphere...beats Treble hands down in those conditions IMO
Cold air ,woodsmoke,people,food = vibe
I find Methven and the flat Canterbury Plains farming towns frankly depressing
 
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CarveMan

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

Don't disagree at all - Castle Hill Village is hardly a mecca, but stretching in front of the open fire with a good red and cooking a nice dinner was about as much as we could manage after a huge day at Craigieburn or in a chopper.

That said resort ambience was almost zero on our wishlist - not bagging Queenstown but we went to the right place to get what we were after.
 

just visiting

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

snow-pixie said:
And if you haven't skiid Coronet with 60cm of fresh on a good base you've missed some of the best skiing in the Southern Hemisphere...beats Treble hands down in those conditions IMO

I agree. If the area gets 60cm - everyone should go to CP.
 
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TropicalPow

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

just visiting said:
snow-pixie said:
And if you haven't skiid Coronet with 60cm of fresh on a good base you've missed some of the best skiing in the Southern Hemisphere...beats Treble hands down in those conditions IMO

I agree. If the area gets 60cm - everyone should go to CP.

In complete agreeance too. I worked there in the 80s before they widened the M1 and put in a few other roads, that improved it for the masses, but ruined some of the uninterupted fall line skiing, but still a magic place on the right day no doubt.
 
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just visiting

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snow-pixie said:
And if you haven't skiid Coronet with 60cm of fresh on a good base you've missed some of the best skiing in the Southern Hemisphere...beats Treble hands down in those conditions IMO
You're very lucky to have skied each area in 60cm. Wow! I can only remember a few times in the past 16 years that TC has had more than 60cm in one dump! And you were there! I was at TC too and it was incredible! I can only imagine what CP must have been like... (did CP get dump of interesting terrain at the same time?).
 
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MisterMxyzptlk

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

just visiting said:
Snow-pixil - you are amazing!

Sarcastica font on!
laugh.gif


There is nothing amazing about me

I think it was 1995..maybe 96, but I would have to show some shots involving a canary yellow jumpsuit and a black headband...images which would sear your brain with their sheer steeziness
 
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MisterMxyzptlk

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

I've skiid both areas at least twice after dumps like that in the past 15 years ...and while I know it's blasphemous to say CP>TC..it's my opinion that you can avoid other people on CP much easier than TC.Furthermore, TC loses its snow quality quickly.
Anyway..brunettes/redheads/blondes. I'm not in for an argument
 

just visiting

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

snow-pixie said:
just visiting said:
Snow-pixil - you are amazing!

Sarcastica font on!
laugh.gif


There is nothing amazing about me

I think it was 1995..maybe 96, but I would have to show some shots involving a canary yellow jumpsuit and a black headband...images which would sear your brain with their sheer steeziness

Ah, I got rid of that comment as I thought it might be too... And now I just don't know. Never-the-less have a great season tiger.
 
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just visiting

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

snow-pixie said:
TC loses its snow quality quickly.
Unless you know where to ski.

Because there are so many elevations, aspects and hidden faces on TC, even advanced/competent skiers can spend days riding and still not find good lines. Local knowledge or applied experience will solve this but that's the same as all ski fields. On TC it's perhaps more pronounced.
 
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Born2ski

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

I don't think Mr Colin Hackworth will like this news story either.

Imagine this: you wake up in your own bed but you're hitting the downhill slopes of a ski resort – in another country - by early afternoon.
The prospect of taking an international flight to reach your white powder destination on the same day may seem unlikely, but it's can be a reality – and without spending hours in the car slowly winding your way into the mountains.
It's possible to take an early flight from an eastern capital and be lining up at the lifts above Queenstown, New Zealand, by mid-afternoon.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/travel/a...0611-205i9.html
 
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vet

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

Aussie invasion: why we took over 'Whistralia'
June 14, 2012

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The Canadian village of Whistler is home to so many Australians that it has been dubbed 'Whistralia". Ben Groundwater finds out what they're doing there.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/aussie-inva...l#ixzz1xnYhS1y0
 
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Red_switch

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

scullee said:
CarveMan said:
?????

The skiing out of Christchurch is much better.

It has always confused me why people chase skiing down at Queenstown when the skiing in Canterbury is that much better.

Queenstown is, in reality, more reliable. Bad seasons in Canterbury are really bad.
 
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Red_switch

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

snow-pixie said:
scullee said:
CarveMan said:
?????

The skiing out of Christchurch is much better.

It has always confused me why people chase skiing down at Queenstown when the skiing in Canterbury is that much better.

I don't go to Queenstown for the skiing..but I've been going at least once every winter since 1994.
And if you haven't skiid Coronet with 60cm of fresh on a good base you've missed some of the best skiing in the Southern Hemisphere...beats Treble hands down in those conditions IMO
Cold air ,woodsmoke,people,food = vibe
I find Methven and the flat Canterbury Plains farming towns frankly depressing

Canterbury offers much less than qtown as a total destination. It's a shame, the potential is there, but until locals buy it, it won't happen.

CP with 20 - 30 cm fresh on a good base is bloody good. There is a shitload of good terrain on that mountain, and it's as much a matter of knowing where to look as anywhere else. The six has been a mixed blessing. Backbowls down to the creek is worth the climb out. I can spend all day doing that.

That much fresh is even better at remarks. Interesting to note that despite being a "Wanaka" event, both the qualifiers and finals of the big mountain section of the NZ freeski open are now being held at remarks... Quite a few long time TC season-passers have jumped ship lately.
 
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damian

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

If this forum where the Australian skiing population, it appears that all the article by Mr Hackworth managed to do was stir up interest in NZ and promote discussion about the relative merits of different ski areas within NZ. I now know more than I did 2 weeks ago. I have always been uncontrollably itchy to go to NZ... this is not helping.
 

MisterMxyzptlk

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

Red_switch said:
That much fresh is even better at remarks. Interesting to note that despite being a "Wanaka" event, both the qualifiers and finals of the big mountain section of the NZ freeski open are now being held at remarks... Quite a few long time TC season-passers have jumped ship lately.

2 years ago did one of my best days in memory with a long-time instructor at Remarks(busy day queue avoidance technique!)
TBH I'd always been a bit ambivalent about the field, but even on crap snow he showed us ridges and fall lines I couldn't have even imagined existed
Certainly changed my opinion of the place and got me dreaming about expansion over to Doolans
It's been seriously underrated.
I've stated a few times that I don't like the new basin lift at TC.
I much preferred booting and scooting from the T-bar in the old days
Improved access is not all it's cracked up to be.
I'm one of those who used to wax on about Treble..but I think its lost its vibe..just my rank intermediate opinion though.
 
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dawooduck

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

damian said:
If this forum where the Australian skiing population, it appears that all the article by Mr Hackworth managed to do was stir up interest in NZ and promote discussion about the relative merits of different ski areas within NZ. I now know more than I did 2 weeks ago. I have always been uncontrollably itchy to go to NZ... this is not helping.

Perhaps Colin has some snow related NZud Investments ?
 
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sfo

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Re: Qantas in a skiing snow job to promote New Zealand

The Qld Liberals were furious enough too and just scrapped the $6,000,000 ski jump training centre!!! Come on, what's next? Will they kil off ice curling next?
 
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