Ski Housing Affordability Crisis

scottski

A Local
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Sep 7, 2004
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Having watched and probably contributed to the other thread about housing affordability I though it was time to look at Ski accomodation affordability.

I have been getting more than my fair share of e:mails from Australian real estate agents near ski resorts lately. The tone seems to have changed slightly with properties now being offered at Auction and quite of few with "realistic vendor" Vendor says sell etc.

Also seem to be getting quite a few with "Bank Sale" from US agents.

With apartments at Hotham going for more tha $1 million and two bed apartments at Jindabyne offered for near to 1/2 million, apartments in Niseko selling in excess of $1 million Aud, my question is, Where are prices heading.

A few examples of bargins in international resorts would be interesting.
 

Yardsale

Part of the Furniture
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If you know where to look - you can get some absolute bargains close to the snow... you just have to know where to look
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markopolo

Naughty Corner Resident
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Jun 1, 2005
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How does a studio apartment in a very large Canadian ski resort for about $100,000.00 Australian sound !!!
 

Hilo's alter ego

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I'd certainly love a snow property, but there's no way I'd buy one now in Australia with concerns over global warming. I just aren't that much of a gambler. If in 2020 or even 2015 we aren't seeing any discernabe difference in snowfalls then I'll know the CSIRO are FOS and I'd consider it then.

When you think of all the snowy places in the world, and all the snowy places with one or more charlifts there'd have to be some areas that are dirt cheap. Maybe not ones you'd want to live in...but...But when you bear in mind that Whistler didn't really exist until the late 60's or so then you realise there are plently of "next big things". The trick, I guess, is picking which one it'll be in a sutainable way.

When you look at the Japanese economy and housing prices I can't help the feeling that Niseko is a bubble, particularly when you look at prices at mainland resorts. Mind you, if you have a spare half mill or mill or so, and by spending it you increase your happiness, I guess it doesn't matter much that you paid too much for the property. You've increased your happiness, which was the main point of the purchase.

And I'd've thought in Jindy $250-300k would be more than enough to get a decent 2BR apartment, albeit one perhaps needing a coat of paint and a refresher reno in the bathroom and kitchen.
 

scottski

A Local
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Interestingly I stayed in a pension type accommodation at the far end of the Hakuba valley a few weeks ago. The new owners were just taking over. I was told by my Japanese friends that the place sold for about $100,000 Usd. 10 rooms, 5 with lofts. slept 35 all up.

On snow walk 1 minute to the lifts.

$250 to $300 for a Jindy apartment needing a freshen up. I may be completely unrealistic however I would think somewhere around $180 to $200,000 would be more like it in the current market. At least if I was writing out my own cheque.

 

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
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Canada is a booming economy with a long way to run selling all it can produce to the Yanks next door so I would look hard at the USA for "bargains".

I have always been of the opinion that all major destination resort real estate has always been way over priced. Nisenko and other such heavily marketed places seem to ride a "discovery boom" for a while before they settle back somewhat.

It all depends if the real estate is for holidays\rental or to live. If it is to live then within 20mins of many major resorts is usually very reasonably priced.
 

Hilo's alter ego

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Yeah, when I've looked at Jindy prices I've tended to look at 3BR rather than 2BR units, so my guess on price was indeed a bit of a guess, but $180k seems a bit low for a 2 bedder unless it was particularly bad.

Oh for that Lotto win!
 

Hilo's alter ego

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Taipan, if you find a good buy which'll be snowsure if global warming is the real deal, has a place in town that makes coffee with an espresso machine and within 3 hours of a major airport, has an economy other than the ski resort...oh, and is cheap....tell me.
 
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Scott No Mates

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Sep 14, 2003
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scottski said:
With apartments at Hotham going for more tha $1 million and two bed apartments at Jindabyne offered for near to 1/2 million, apartments in Niseko selling in excess of $1 million Aud, my question is, Where are prices heading.

With prices like that, it is not worth your effort investing in snowline properties. At best you may have a low single digit net return ie 2% (the bank pays a lot more than that risk free, even if you pay half in tax!).

I remember Horizons at Jindy being way overpriced for the return. Even lodges (within resort boundaries) running at 5% return are overpriced when you consider that they are not freehold.

It remains the case that you have to understand the investment, be able to have some degree over the management and bookings to ensure you maximise your returns, unless you just want a nice plaything to escape the heat when temps get above 30 degrees constantly.
 
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sly_karma

Green Bastard
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Dec 12, 2005
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Some bargains to be had in the US with their real estate market all but collapsed. Prices are deflated everywhere, none more so than the ones which were overinflated in the first place.
 

scottski

A Local
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sly_karma said:
Some bargains to be had in the US with their real estate market all but collapsed. Prices are deflated everywhere, none more so than the ones which were overinflated in the first place.

That seems to be the case however there is more pain to be had there locally yet. With the increasing disparity between interest rates in Australia and the US it would appear that the Aud dollar will continue to rise against the USD making for even more opportunity to grab a deal.
 
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rollyz

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Jun 2, 2005
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I bought a tent, and camp at the FREE national parks campsites. The trick is, keep dry, and you'll be warm.
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californiadream

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Why buy? For $23,000US and around $1000pa as maintenance, you get 3 straight weeks each January in the Squaw Valley Village. Off mountain condos are on the resale/foreclosure market for $999 to $2000 and $400pa maintenance for 1 week in a studio or 1 bedroom king size bed with 2 person sofa bed and fully stocked (oven, micro, forks plates etc). There's a dozen resorts around Lake Tahoe. Lift tickets are $29 for Homewood (skihomewood.com) or see snowbomb.com for $51 tix at northstar and Alpine Meadows, $15 off Squaw's daily rate, etc. And food, petrol etc is cheaper - and that includes Aust wines in the local US 7/11 and US Safeway.
 

californiadream

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And swap your US week(s) for 1 week at Mansfield Country Club Resort or Bright Resort. Or join a ski club like usc (hotham, buller, fc and reciprocal rights at Thredders for around $1500 and book a 2,4or6 bed bunk room for $45/50'ish a bed a night. (And that includes a storeroomful of bacon, egs, cereal, pasta, pasta sauces etc).
 
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