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Question Ski Instructors, need them or not?

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by DPS Driver, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    Hi all, I've been following a post on private lessons and thought I would throw this one out there.

    Ski instructors, are they the peregrine falcon of the ski resort world or the vulture? Their preening and posturing would suggest the Peacock but is this a fair summation of the value of a ski instructor?

    While it may be true some possess the cunning of a fox, most struggle with the daily duties required to maintain life. Yet they all share one common bond. You'll always know when there's a ski instructor in the room, because they'll tell you.

    So here is the dilemma. Do we need ski instructors at all, now that we have google?
     
  2. BoofHead

    BoofHead One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    This should be interesting.
    I say yes.
     
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  3. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes

    if they are italian.
     
  4. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    With the advent of Carv, perhaps instructors are only necessary up to lower intermediate level these days?
     
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  5. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Without ski instructors how else are you going to get someone that good looking to ski with you?
     
  6. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Soon, maybe next year (to coincide with Uberdrones) you will be able to buy a Google Suit (not suite) that can be programmed to do anything, with you in it! no need to learn anything, just suit up, select your activity, and enjoy the ride!
     
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  7. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski instructors are like lawyers- if you need one you really need one and you’re buggered without one, but otherwise they might be surplus to requirements.

    Unless of course, you’re romantically involved, in which case you might find yourself surplus to requirements...

    @Legs Akimbo ...
     
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  8. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski Instruction will never go out of business as long as there are Husbands, Boyfriends and Fathers.
     
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  9. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    The best is the boyfriend trying to teach their partner within the group lesson
     
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  10. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski-school.... WAY better than day care.

    There are 6 years of skiing I’m never getting back because I was too skint to put the kids in ski-school. Skiing with toddlers sucks.

    And while they both ski OK they would have been better quicker if I had abandoned them and gone off for the day to seek out the fresh for myself....
     
  11. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Inception
     
  12. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Followed closely by conception- if the instructor’s any good... its the rhythm method.
     
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  13. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    despite the lift companies' apparent contempt for those buying lessons, yes we do.
    • We need more not less induction into snowsports including rules and etiquette
    • Many beginners will love the sport better and sooner if they take lessons
    • It is a very common theme here that bad habits are easily ingrained but take years to undo
    • You don't have to be obsessive about technique to benefit from improved technique. Better technique helps you enjoy your skiing more
    The prices are getting stupid. Class sizes can be far too big. Some instructors can't communicate the basics to a wide enough range of students, possibly made worse by class sizes
     
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  14. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    It's folly to assume that most skiers will improve to become experts organically, by just improving what they're already doing.
    There are "aha" moments in skiing, 99.9% of skiers won't find out by accident.
     
  15. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Cant I just buy skis with "parabolic" qualities?

    Like in the rental, would you like beginner, or expert skis? Give me the expert ones mate, so I dont have to teach them!
     
  16. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Nothing like long skinny skis to highlight one’s shortcomings, and nothing like soft, shaped noodles in park and ride mode on an easy groomer to make someone feel they really own the slopes!
     
  17. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yes for me. Watched hundreds of vids online but couldn’t translate the instructions into action, but 3 days with a good instructor, emphasis on good, took things to a whole other level for me.
     
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  18. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    All the lols

    This if I’m being serious...

    What girlfriend doesn’t like an attentive young hot euro skier to teach them if I’m being facetious
     
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  19. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I taught myself how to ski just fine. Also how to do brain surgery, and fly a plane, all just from watching youtube. And a few bad movies.
     
  20. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes. And they need to be cheaper, so more people use them. Insane to pay $100’s per hour when the instructors are lucky to get $40 per hour.
     
  21. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    I feel a better service the resorts could offer would be a breakdown of the 2 main instructor tasks:
    1. Skiing escorts
    2. Skiing au paires
    I believe this would negate some of the confusion around which type of instructor you have. Any thoughts?
     
  22. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Instructing is like dinning alone at restaurant with only the waiter for conversation ....
     
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  23. Harper11

    Harper11 Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Most people don’t get lessons in other pursuits such as surfing, skateboarding ect
    You just do it

    I guess lessons help you get the most out of your limited time on snow but the prices are prohibitive. Eg a full day private lesson at Thredbo is the same price as a season pass

    Or $180 for a 3 hour max 3 group lesson

    In saying that I’ve had plenty of lessons and camp things over the years and have booked the kids in for January trip to ski school
     
  24. TOFF

    TOFF Im kind of a big deal Ski Pass: Gold

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    As someone who dines alone often, I find it ****ing infuriating when the waiter/ess decideds that I then need them for conversation.
    ****off and bring me my food.
     
  25. sbm_

    sbm_ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    That's changing though. Lessons for surfing, skateboarding, mountain biking are way more popular than they were.

    Imagine this, though. What if all the money you pay for a lesson went directly to the instructor? How much would they make per lesson then? Compared to how much they actually make at the moment?
     
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  26. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    People would learn faster in a lesson if you could be brutally honest with them, some people want to learn others don’t want anything but positive feedback
     
  27. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    "Stop being a pussy and get onto the new edge sooner."
     
  28. DidSurfNowSki

    DidSurfNowSki One of them Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski instructors teach ??? I thought the rich just used them to get to the front of the lift line. ;)
     
  29. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Given the amount of rubbish skiing i see every day i ski (including my own) there a just not enough ski instructors.
     
  30. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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    A bit off topic here but:

    How do snowboarders introduce themselves?
    Sorry dude.
     
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  31. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    If snowboarders never need lessons, why do skiers?
     
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  32. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

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  33. Zeroz

    Zeroz A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski instruction also depends where you ski. Certain resorts….. like Aspen:

    Aspen Mountain only offers private instruction—at a starting rate of $820 a day.

    “People are awfully particular about their special requests,” says Olga Lawson, the on-snow coordinator at Aspen Mountain. Among the common asks?

    “Blond instructors, please,” “Olympic medalists only,” or “Someone who likes to drink.”

    Even still, the most frequent request is simple on the surface: People want “a fun young guy,” or as Lawson interprets it, a handsome Australian or New Zealander in his 20s or 30s. (Women want to date them; men want to bro out with them.)

    “We also get tons of requests for instructors with French accents,” says Lawson, adding that many clients want to practice their foreign language skills before heading to Courchevel or Megève. She jokes, “It’s like two lessons for the price of one!”

    Asking for photos before picking an instructor is a no-no at the Aspen skiing school (though it’s frequently attempted).


    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...ski-instructors-from-sex-to-spilled-champagne
     
  34. willsnow

    willsnow Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    We need ski instructors, but need the price to go lower too.

    I wonder why Buller doesn't do group lesson for Advanced level (FC and Hotham do). I've always wanted to improve my off-piste skiing (esp in bumps), and that's not an intermediate group lesson will teach you. My choice is to spend $345 for a 2-hour private lessons vs using the same amount of money for 3 days of lift passes, and my brain always chooses the later.

    I'm quite content to absorb information from books and Youtube videos, do my own trial and error to see which technique works, and the money I saved from 2 hours of private lesson will give me plenty of time to do my own experiment of skiing techniques.
     
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  35. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    The cost of becoming an instructor is more expensive than hiring one.
     
  36. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    But it’s a good way to upskill...
     
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  37. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    No, we need people to understand that skilled workers should be paid and paid properly and to understand that this will be reflected in the price.
     
  38. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yes indeed
     
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  39. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    agreed, but the size of the cut by the middle man is the main problem
     
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  40. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    And then date them:p
     
  41. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Oh yeah....

    While I know that was a facetious comment...
    Snowboarders need lessons more than skiers in the early stages because it’s such a steep learning curve.


    Personally I’d like to see a bigger push for beginner lift plus lesson tickets. You know the beginner is not riding the whole mountain so give a restricted pass at a cheaper price inclusive of lessons each day of the pass and put good Instructors on these lessons. Not good as in shit hot skiers, good as in great communicators who can instill and are trained to focus on mountain safety, mountain etiquette, self preservation, consideration of others etc etc.

    Get the beginners on day one and force feed the etiquette that is so lacking today. It’ll cut off the bad behaviour at inception.
     
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  42. Harper11

    Harper11 Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Surfing lessons seems full of total newbies and tourists
     
  43. willsnow

    willsnow Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    No question about skilled workers should be paid properly, but how much of the money I pay for private lessons go to the instructors vs to the ski schools/resorts?

    Case in point: group lessons pricing. It's currently the same pricing for everybody in the group, regardless of the group size. I presume that the instructors will be paid the same amount of money regardless of how many people there are in the group (CMIIW). So the big fat profit will be going to the ski school.

    The lessons are already expensive as it is that I know beginners forego lessons to save money. This is where they usually crash, hurt themselves (requiring ski patrols' attention), and find that skiing is not fun and won't be returning. Whose loss is that? Make the lessons pricing attractive and reasonable, I suspect you'll get more demand and repeating customers.
     
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  44. Roymond

    Roymond One of Us

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    Ski instructors are good to push you down a slope where if you were with your mates , you’d tell them to f&$k off.
     
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  45. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    I think the word you are looking for is ....
    guide
     
  46. Onlybackscratchers

    Onlybackscratchers One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    In 96 as a trainee instructor I got $11.50 p/hr. 16 people x $20ea group lesson = $320 for the lift company v $23 for me.
    I'm assuming this ratio hasn't changed that much over the years.
     
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  47. Roymond

    Roymond One of Us

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    As an advanced intermediate skier, instructors got me where I am in four years from an absolute noob. I’m now happy doing just about anything on piste , and a bit off piste.
    No way in gods earth I’d be doing the stuff I am doing now without good technique correction. And all without serious orthopaedic involvement .
     
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  48. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Ski schools, ski resorts and so on cost money to run and develop and oddly enough are run to make a profit for their owners.

    It’s not a fat profit for the investment ( maybe some lucky years) and there are loss years.

    A lot of planning & research goes into lesson and other product / service pricing. Your suppositions about lesson pricing and selling more are alas a dream, it doesn’t happen in real life. To get lessons cheap enough to get more people to do them would require subsidies of well more than 50%.

    There would be some pricing benefits to customers if there was allowed to be more than one ski school but instructor wages would pay for the better pricing and ultimately the customer would experience a drop in instructor quality.
     
  49. TOFF

    TOFF Im kind of a big deal Ski Pass: Gold

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    One takes skill
    One takes gravity
     
  50. Undies

    Undies Pizza! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Doing an instructors cert was the biggest improvement in my technique in more than a decade.

    If only I’d spent those prior years getting lessons.
     
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