1. There's more to this forum than meets the eye!

    We have a vibrant community here conversing about all sorts of non-snow topics such as music, sport, politics and technology. Simply register to reveal all our Après topics or continue browsing and reading as a guest.

    NOTE: This notice may be closed.

    Dismiss Notice

Question Ski Instructors, need them or not?

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by DPS Driver, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    18,242
    Likes Received:
    13,326
    Location:
    Jindabyne
    They're a very highly trained and dedicated bunch.
     
  2. Chaeron

    Chaeron One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2014
    Messages:
    4,350
    Likes Received:
    6,266
    Location:
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    You can see the commitment in their skiing and the value in the whole process is self-evident - all kudos to you APSI guys!
     
    Telemark Phat likes this.
  3. coolair

    coolair One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2007
    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    739
    Location:
    NSW
    After umpteen years of sking I wanted to try snowboarding, I went to mt Selwyn hired a kit
    after one hour I could not master it, they then announced half price private lessons, i took one.
    one hour later I was on a snowboard for the next 10 years.
    Back to skis for the last 10 years.
     
    LMB and Chaeron like this.
  4. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,417
    Likes Received:
    18,007
    Location:
    Perth
    Sometimes it’s such a simple tweak to get you going, but without the skill of the instructor to see it and call it in such a way that you can action it you’d be bashing your head against the metaphoric brick wall for years.

    This season for me it was linking turns with my back foot out of the binding. Ok on heel side but once I got on the toe side I couldn’t seem to control the end of the turn and transition into the start of the heelside turn. A brief “look uphill” and unweight as you slow to transition to the new turn and it all clicked.

    You’re paying for that expertise.
     
  5. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    13,049
    Gained heaps from my one hour private xc lesson the other day. Told me where I was going wrong, taught me new stuff, worth every cent.
     
  6. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    So they got you to anticipate with your head.
    You were lucky that they did not try to stop you from rotating into toeside.
     
  7. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    18,242
    Likes Received:
    13,326
    Location:
    Jindabyne
     
  8. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    Demo teams look good from a distance. They are the true enthusiasts, but who tries to emulate them ?.
    Used to envy instructors with an accent and a table full of gals.
    Now I sometimes pity their slavery to a foreign style which has lost it's way.
    Freedom freedom freedom oy !
     
    cold wombat, crackson and parkmonkey like this.
  9. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    23,419
    Likes Received:
    15,026
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    I try.:rolleyes:
     
    currawong, craighelo and cold wombat like this.
  10. telecrag

    telecrag Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    26,795
    Likes Received:
    31,557
    Well, thats what they tell everyone. Actually they are just talented, self taught, ten day a year skiers, with a penchant for flairy moves.

    Our instructor mate who did his L2 recently, wow, chalk and cheese. I skied with him the day before the course, and on Sunday. Totally hooked!
     
  11. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,530
    Likes Received:
    41,830
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    So stoked for the 2 Buller girls.
     
    Chaeron and Telemark Phat like this.
  12. parkmonkey

    parkmonkey Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    36,313
    Likes Received:
    15,637
    Location:
    On a wave or mountain face near you.
    I do agree with this, they are a bunch of robots, i like skiing loose and recovery but if you are going to teach and have a consistent message and style to replicate you need everyone doing the same thing with clear and precise movements
     
    skifree and crackson like this.
  13. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,716
    Likes Received:
    1,100
    Location:
    Melburn
    IMO our (the APSI) style is not as elegant and graceful as that of the Europeans...
     
    crackson likes this.
  14. LDJ

    LDJ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    364
    we all know that being involved in the 30 person French ski school snake is the only path to perfection skiing
     
    Chaeron, cold wombat and dawooduck like this.
  15. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    8,488
    Likes Received:
    5,824
    Location:
    Snowy Mountains
    I'd do privates in Austria if I could.
     
    skifree likes this.
  16. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    Dad as an instructor ? Sometimes..
    This morning, brand new snow, but frozen.
    Dad appears with his snowboard. Sends his 4 y.o daughter up the tee alone on her skis. Ten meters up she aborts and just lets go. Hissy fit.
    Dad grumpy and they retreat.
    See her with instructor later. Instant rapport. Lift together. Fun time. Go, girl. :)
     
    pegasusSki, crackson, skifree and 2 others like this.
  17. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hey I understood this post! Great writing keep the English classes up:D
     
    Chaeron, crackson, dawooduck and 3 others like this.
  18. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    So why could nobody except TP understand that ?
    Rotating into toeside is the foundation move for natural movement in both boarding and skiing.
    Professor Stephan Kruckenhauser realised this by watching how kids ski.
    So maybe kids could update our instructors ?
    [​IMG]

     
  19. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 12, 2000
    Messages:
    76,530
    Likes Received:
    41,830
    Location:
    Les Hautes Montagnes
    Refer to my first post in this thread :thumbs:
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  20. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    Aiming high. No doubt free instruction from the best.
     
    #170 bawbawbel, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  21. Alexander has

    Alexander has First Runs

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    It’s awesome ay!glad you liked it haha
     
    Chaeron likes this.
  22. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    It might take a few seasons, but then you own them.
    And before that, you were quite happy in your ignorance. :)
    Bad instructors are like bad car mechanics. Leave a bad taste in your mouth.
     
  23. cold wombat

    cold wombat Twitter Contributer Social Media Mod Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    49,418
    Likes Received:
    18,532
    Location:
    Perth
    If a ski instructor has left a bad taste in your mouth...
     
  24. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Location:
    Canberra
    Or a mechanic:eek:
     
    cold wombat likes this.
  25. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    Get a good instructor. How?
    Maybe look for an ad on apartment door.
     
  26. Alexander has

    Alexander has First Runs

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Not Free ..
    We pay for courses. The are not cheap
     
  27. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    Aghast at the runaway thread that he started, DPS tries to derail it.
    More:
    Why did the snowboarder cross the road ?
    It was never his intention to do so..
     
    Aractus, telecrag, DPS Driver and 3 others like this.
  28. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    23,419
    Likes Received:
    15,026
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Better than djotd.
     
    DPS Driver and southpaw like this.
  29. Nidecker

    Nidecker One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,665
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Location:
    Alpine the dark side of snowboarding
    So I'm a snowboarder, never really skied. When my daughter at 4yrs old expressed an interest in skiing, the "deal" we made with her was that she would never come riding with us EVER if she didn't agree to morning group lessons. Every morning, everytime we skied no choice.
    Skiing is a very technical sport, much like golf or tennis. It requires coaching.

    Fast forward she got into racing, so skied with coaches every weekend of her Australian winters, not to be an Olympian, or represent AUS, but so that she became a good skier.

    This year at 16yrs (12 years and 800 ish days on the snow later) she did her level 1s. It was a pretty funny few days. Rewarding all the same.
    Funniest comment though was along the lines of ..... "Shouldn't you have to be cool to be a ski instructor..I mean like some of these people can't even carry skis correctly on their shoulders." Typical teenager. :) It made me laugh but also remind her that the best teachers are not necessarily the best practitioners. They just need to be observant. I truely hope that she completes all her levels, and gives back to a sport that has given her so much, but not at the expense of a more traditional career.
     
  30. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,417
    Likes Received:
    18,007
    Location:
    Perth
    Good on her @Nidecker
    One of mine did his NZSIA 2 and APSI Ski 1 - never worked as an instructor but has given generously of his time helping friends and family and learned great technique. Despite never working he still counts it as one of the best things he has ever done.
     
    craighelo, cold wombat and Chaeron like this.
  31. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    4,074
    Likes Received:
    3,852
    My eldest was a Lvl 1 instructor. Worked a couple of season but ended up mostly working with the littlies.

    Gave it away because he's 6'7" in the old scale and told me he can't possibly keep picking up littlies off the snow, they're to far to travel. He also got sick of not having a proper bed or a bedroom for that matter.
     
    crackson and Chaeron like this.
  32. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    646
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Off the back of purchasing an Epic pass, I took a look at the websites for each of the resorts on the pass, to see what the cost of lessons for mr 3.5 would be to snowboard.

    This has made me re-evaluate the cost of lessons in Perisher (and Aus in general!)

    At Whistler, for a trip in the Jan/Feb crossover period, group snowboard lessons for 3-4 year olds are $CAD225 ($AUD248) per day. Breckenridge was a whopping $USD225 ($AUD327), and Keystone only offer snowboarding lessons for youngsters in their "sem-private" groups of no more than 4, at $USD295 ($AUD430) per day! Compare and contrast with the $102 per day I paid at Perisher, and suddenly lessons in Aus seem like so much better value.
     
  33. pegasusSki

    pegasusSki Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2015
    Messages:
    133
    Likes Received:
    87
    Dad sorts out problems in car park. Sorts sun lotion, ski hire etc, says "yes, you look great in black" and the hair is fine. Even carries a ski to avoid whinging. The day is too much for a teen to bear and will the whole thing be an abort? The boots don't go on that well, and Dad has to get on knees to assist as his BP rises....

    But then is amazed when teen then breaks free of teenage angst and laps all day with barely a break for lunch! That's my girl!
     
    southpaw, cold wombat, kylep and 3 others like this.
  34. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    Instructor demonstrates how to snoplow:


    Then he cuts to real people skiing.
    All doin it wrong, according to the bible.
    How come everybody in the real world eventually finds Wholebody when they need it ?.
    In spite of bein taught different..
     
    #184 bawbawbel, Sep 17, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  35. bawbawbel

    bawbawbel Easi Ski..... Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2000
    Messages:
    4,480
    Likes Received:
    335
    Location:
    vic
    So Verbier instruction will help you bridge the yawning gap between how these people ski and how their classy instructors ski. But only at the end of extensive and expensive training.
    Why ?
    Because they create a brain block at that Level 1 snowplough which is hard to remove.
    So do not correct your kids natural turning.
     
    #185 bawbawbel, Sep 18, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  36. Aractus

    Aractus Hard Yards

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2018
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    148
    Location:
    Canberra
    Bad habits can form regardless of whether you've had instruction. Rules and Etiquette can be enforced better by lifties at the top of lifts monitoring and educating on proper unloading and that kind of thing. Heck just putting up signage about unloading along the lifts would help. I've gone up t-bars with people in their 70's that say "I'll take the bar" seemingly unaware that with two skiers neither needs to "take the bar" most of the time, you just each push yourself off at the top and the bar takes care of itself.

    This person seems to have an inventive way of riding the t-bar:

     
    bawbawbel likes this.
  37. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2003
    Messages:
    32,055
    Likes Received:
    15,827
    Location:
    Kiewa Valley
    All for lifties reinforcing rules and etiquette as well, but they don't much.
    Generally beginners respect their instructors. Messages from them, intertwined with other teaching, have a better chance of sticking.
     
    Jonathan_P, LMB and Chaeron like this.
  38. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,417
    Likes Received:
    18,007
    Location:
    Perth
    That’s 100% the place to make change.
    Which is why I support cheap beginner lift and lesson packages - but ski schools need to put decent instructors, focused on educating the new skiers on all those niceties, on those lessons.
     
  39. Alexander has

    Alexander has First Runs

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Like your thought
     
  40. Kopite

    Kopite One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2017
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    652
    Location:
    North Curly
    They’re vital to me. No way am I in a position to teach my kids. Without instructors they would probably not ski.

    As it is I’m in desperate need of a lesson or two, but much prefer to put that money into the girls. Long term a far better investment!
     
  41. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    656
    Likes Received:
    1,103
    Location:
    Canberra
    I feel the same. I consider myself a lost cause and a permanent intermediate skier but seeing my kids improve and become confident and technically competent makes me happy to keep forking out for lessons.
     
    cold wombat, Kopite and Jonathan_P like this.
  42. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 1998
    Messages:
    23,419
    Likes Received:
    15,026
    Location:
    Middle Oz
    Nobody is a lost cause.:)
     
  43. Jonathan_P

    Jonathan_P One of Us

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2018
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    564
    Agree with that 100%.

    I have no natural talent when it comes to skiing and never been good at sport, somehow I started this crazy journey. Some days (weeks) I feel the same thing (lost cause) but I find if you stick with it with enough hard work and persistence it pays off and small improvements come.

    Lessons help though I would still be stuck on the green runs without them.
     
    cold wombat, skifree and southpaw like this.
  44. silva

    silva One of Us

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    562
    Location:
    NSW
    I have found this to be a bit of an EPIC trend. Cheap season pass + expensive lodging + expensive lessons + expensive food options. We have found that it is often cheaper to actually fork out for lift passes at other resorts where the lessons prices are dramatically lower. Even then the Aus lessons prices are almost always some of the cheapest around. Choose carefully though - a lot of snowsports schools still start snowboard group lessons at 7.
     
    Harper11 and nezumi like this.
  45. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    4,074
    Likes Received:
    3,852
    Fear is a good teacher.

    For the beginners, on day two, throw yourself off the steepest run or off piste you can find and survive it. The rest will fall into place a lot easier.
     
    southpaw likes this.
  46. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    May 6, 2010
    Messages:
    27,417
    Likes Received:
    18,007
    Location:
    Perth
    LOL
    You’re just trying to convince them that skiing is not for them. Quieter resorts.
     
    cold wombat, Jonathan_P and skifree like this.
  47. DPS Driver

    DPS Driver One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2014
    Messages:
    4,074
    Likes Received:
    3,852
    They were all nice and quiet this week. Started in Thredbo on Monday, then Falls, then Hotham, then Buller and finished at Lake Mountain. Nice spring corn everywhere.
     
    LMB likes this.
  48. Kopite

    Kopite One of Us

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2017
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    652
    Location:
    North Curly
    I’ve yet to see anything matching the Perisher kids options. Discounted with your epic pass I’ve had them around $80 for the day, and that’s including lunch for them. The instructors have always been very good too.
     
    cold wombat and skifree like this.
  49. nezumi

    nezumi One of Us

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    646
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I was told that my Epic Pass wouldn't give me a discount on his lessons - and that if I opted for the $49 pass for under 5s, that also offers no discounts. I'd have to shell out for a redundant child Epic Pass to get him a discount, so it wouldn't bear fruit unless he was going to long enough to offset the cost of the pass.

    Definitely worthwhile in future years, however.
     
  50. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    7,831
    Likes Received:
    13,049
    Fair enough really. The pass is essentially free, hard to justify expecting a discount for getting a free pass.