Ski Specific Travel Insurance

Lady Penelope

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AAMI have way too many exclusions for my liking. Last trip to Japan I think we went with either RACQ or RACV travel insurance. Off piste options were more limited, but many Japanese resorts frown upon off-piste activities anyway.
 

Any

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I have 35 seasons and not worried abt doing short day trips in BC Vic. Japow is a whole new ball game.
if you're going anywhere for more than 1-2 days you're gonna want to go out of the gates and go off piste.
not to mention needing bc coverage if you actually do decide to tour somewhere.

there are gates at niseko that even 6 yr olds are skiing as part of ski school. theres a bunch of signs (and there must be bells?) hidden amongst the trees that the kids have to find. teaches them not to look at their feet, look past the tree immediately in front of you, and to not be afraid of trees. the area is called strawberry bells.

you could save $50 on insurance and pay $600 every day for a guide to take you out so that you're insurance covered.
or get better insurance, maybe get a guide for only 1 day, and explore some with old or new friends or lodge mates.
 
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Any

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Wouldn't be interesting if I got another aami product and hurt myself after they just paid me out.

Its crazy.

I would still buy aami, you would win the fight I'm sure. Until the Pds excludes it and you debt have a paper trail you asked what can they say?

I have fought an insurance company via ombudsmen and won before.
im AAMI still this year.
anonymous call center staff member plastic badge id #6 isn't in my list of people i trust for legally binding legal advice.
 
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Telemark Phat

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im AAMI still this year.
anonymous call center staff member plastic badge id #6 isn't in my list of people i trust for legally binding legal advice.
Only rely on it if you have it recorded or in writing. Last year the call centre staff said no, but I got a yes over email. I went with the written advice.
 

snowgum

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if you're going anywhere for more than 1-2 days you're gonna want to go out of the gates and go off piste.
not to mention needing bc coverage if you actually do decide to tour somewhere.

there are gates at niseko that even 6 yr olds are skiing as part of ski school. theres a bunch of signs (and there must be bells?) hidden amongst the trees that the kids have to find. teaches them not to look at their feet, look past the tree immediately in front of you, and to not be afraid of trees. the area is called strawberry bells.

you could save $50 on insurance and pay $600 every day for a guide to take you out so that you're insurance covered.
or get better insurance, maybe get a guide for only 1 day, and explore some with old or new friends or lodge mates.

Hi Any, does AAMI or other co. purport to cover out of gate or BC skiing - without a guide?

I can't see myself using a guide many days over my 2 weeks. Maybe try to join a group.

So at best it's inbounds inside gate off piste...which beats not skiing (usual Aus summer)!
 

Any

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Hi Any, does AAMI or other co. purport to cover out of gate or BC skiing - without a guide?
yeah.
is rare in Australia/NZ insurance to not have it all excluded.
in fact, most AU insurance doesn't even allow you to go off piste in bounds. usually the same category as base jumping and wingsuit flying. they think that tiny bit of snow on the side of groomers is a big scary no-no. its a bit ridiculous.
off piste is very common to be allowed by Europe insurers, and not uncommon in USA insurance agencies.

the last time someone recommend aami (on facebook), 9000 people call them at the same time and ask the same question about off piste skiing. then 9000 more people didnt believe the answers so they called to. 9000 more people didnt believe the first 18000 people that confirmed it, so they called as well. and some of the previous people called a second or third time just to make sure.
meanwhile we're sitting back here watching a great thing we had get ruined.
suddenly now aami think theres 30000 people going off piste, and have gotten scared thinking that theyre way over exposed. they have started telling anyone that calls and emails that its not covered anymore, and are supposedly removing all off piste skiing from their pds (the document that has the actual rules).
@Ozgirl was asking if they have updated their pds yet, and it seems they havent, so our interpretation is that yes its still covered because in our opinion a written legal contract agreement trumps an anonymous call center voice on the phone.
 

LMB

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I’m still having trouble understanding how this is such an issue. It has to purely be down to perceived risk rather than actual risk.

The chances of injury slipping and falling on an icy road in a ski village are higher than any off piste claim. Firstly because EVERYONE in a ski village is walking around town while only a small percentage are going off piste. Secondly because the risk assessment for skiing off piste has already been done by the skier - who doesn’t want to die today - who is likely to err on the side of caution anyway.

You’re way more likely to be injured skiing on a beginner run, either being hit by a newbie or if you’re a newbie yourself rather than need rescuing from an off piste accident. Sure, each accident is probably more significant but the risk to the insurer is actually fairly low.

So frustrating.
 
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smackies

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Likelihood x Consequence.

Slip and fall on an icy road, you tend to be able to get yourself to medical treatment and it tends to be for a relatively non-complex break.

vs.

Search, rescue, extraction.
 

LMB

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Likelihood x Consequence.

Slip and fall on an icy road, you tend to be able to get yourself to medical treatment and it tends to be for a relatively non-complex break.

vs.

Search, rescue, extraction.
Yes.
But total dollars paid out vs total dollars paid out?

I’m betting that claims for lost luggage, slip and fall X-rays and treatments, beginner run crashes etc FAR outweigh the claims from backcountry incidents. And when they do come they probably come from loyal customers who’ve purchased but not claimed on 10 or 20 policies thus far.
 
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Any

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I’m still having trouble understanding how this is such an issue. It has to purely be down to perceived risk rather than actual risk.

The chances of injury slipping and falling on an icy road in a ski village are higher than any off piste claim. Firstly because EVERYONE in a ski village is walking around town while only a small percentage are going off piste. Secondly because the risk assessment for skiing off piste has already been done by the skier - who doesn’t want to die today - who is likely to err on the side of caution anyway.

You’re way more likely to be injured skiing on a beginner run, either being hit by a newbie or if you’re a newbie yourself rather than need rescuing from an off piste accident. Sure, each accident is probably more significant but the risk to the insurer is actually fairly low.

So frustrating.
Likelihood x Consequence.

Slip and fall on an icy road, you tend to be able to get yourself to medical treatment and it tends to be for a relatively non-complex break.

vs.

Search, rescue, extraction.
- i think partly a perceived risk vs cost, not actual pragmatic.
like i said before, we all know that off piste skiing is certainly not as dangerous as base jumping. but some cubical insurance drone probably doesnt know. he see redbull extreme skiing youtube channel and thinks thats what we're doing every day.
everyone seems to think that search and rescue is some huge big ticket item. but when i was looking at costs in japan last year, an almost worst case helicopter & ski patrol search and rescue scenario was about $5-10k. my luggage is worth more than twice that. its a bargain compared to a broken leg hospital stay in japan for a tourist that was above $100k.

- i think its partly profit driven. whatever the insurance agency can get away with excluding, they will.
if they lose 1% of customers but have to pay out 2% less, then the bean counters would be all for it.
they dont care about long term loss of customers and referrals. they want that savings on this year's statement, so they get their bonus.

- but mostly i think its premium driven.
everyone could probably cover off piste and backcountry sports/etc. but the cost of their insurance will be $20 more than their competitors.
when you have uneducated public who simply blindly buy whatever is cheapest, you dont have a choice really.
 
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smackies

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- i think its partly profit driven. whatever the insurance agency can get away with excluding, they will.
if they lose 1% of customers but have to pay out 2% less, then the bean counters would be all for it.
they dont care about long term loss of customers and referrals. they want that savings on this year's statement, so they get their bonus.
.

This.

It’s significantly profit driven. As you say, insurers are competing on price, so they need to exclude as much as they can. Whole departments exist for this purpose. At the policy and actual claims stages.

Most people can’t be arsed to read a PDS. If there is a box to tick to cover skiing, that’s often about as far as the effort goes. Insurers count on this as well as travel agents selling insurance, with few or no alternatives, to clients.
 
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Any

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What's in your luggage?!
when i lost both my bags a couple of years ago (they went to brazil instead of japan) i was waiting ages for airline staff to give me an insurance report, so while i was waiting i made a list of everything and searched for replacements. i was shocked at how much itd cost to buy replacements for it all. >$30k!
i have a lot of high end gear, i ski in one year more than most do in 10. but i think you'd be surprised how much it'd be to replace all your gear, clothes and even the bags themselves if you add it all up too. you should try it.
 

LMB

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when i lost both my bags a couple of years ago (they went to brazil instead of japan) i was waiting ages for airline staff to give me an insurance report, so while i was waiting i made a list of everything and searched for replacements. i was shocked at how much itd cost to buy replacements for it all. >$30k!
i have a lot of high end gear, i ski in one year more than most do in 10. but i think you'd be surprised how much it'd be to replace all your gear, clothes and even the bags themselves if you add it all up too. you should try it.
If also be surprised if they replaced the lost stuff new for old on a claim that big. But it’s better than nothing!
 
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snowgum

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Howdy,
I just had a look over the headline benefits of Cover More Travel Insurance.

While their snow sports cover initially seems quite complete, it seems in two different sentences they claim they do cover off piste in bounds and then they don't cover the same.

It could be (I'll re read then call them) but on face value CM have stated a conflicting set of benefits and have not properly proofed their documentation.

I was thinking this crowd could be a goer!!
 

skichic

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Howdy,
I just had a look over the headline benefits of Cover More Travel Insurance.

While their snow sports cover initially seems quite complete, it seems in two different sentences they claim they do cover off piste in bounds and then they don't cover the same.

It could be (I'll re read then call them) but on face value CM have stated a conflicting set of benefits and have not properly proofed their documentation.

I was thinking this crowd could be a goer!!
If you get injured make sure someone pulls you back on the groomer before calling patrol ;)
 
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Ozgirl

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Likelihood x Consequence.

Slip and fall on an icy road, you tend to be able to get yourself to medical treatment and it tends to be for a relatively non-complex break.

vs.

Search, rescue, extraction.
But my ACL whilst Heli skiing injury cost AAMI under $5k including the business class flight home.

If i had done it in resort on piste it would have cost the same.

Heli skiing should be covered because they aren't going to leave you out there. and they have the chopper. no expensive extraction required!
 
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LMB

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I've been involved in that particular fraud when in Japan.
Up until now every injury I’ve had has been in resort with the exception of the cracked vertebrae in Chile that I didn’t realise I’d done until I got home. And I’ve never claimed a thing on travel insurance. Not worth the hassle unless the bill gets up into the thousands.
 

Telemark Phat

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Up until now every injury I’ve had has been in resort with the exception of the cracked vertebrae in Chile that I didn’t realise I’d done until I got home. And I’ve never claimed a thing on travel insurance. Not worth the hassle unless the bill gets up into the thousands.
I wasn't injured, I just filled out the paper work. The victim had a broken ulnar and radius where about 2cm of each was shattered. He needed help!
 

Born2ski

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You’re way more likely to be injured skiing on a beginner run, either being hit by a newbie or if you’re a newbie yourself rather than need rescuing from an off piste accident. Sure, each accident is probably more significant but the risk to the insurer is actually fairly low.

So frustrating.
My son has skied off piste through trees with me, but where did he break his leg ? On a groomed green run at the bottom of the mountain.....:doh:
 

skichic

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My son has skied off piste through trees with me, but where did he break his leg ? On a groomed green run at the bottom of the mountain.....:doh:
Yep. Smashed my leg on the flat between Terminal and Summit at Perisher.
 
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snowgum

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image.png image.png
More thoughts on TI cover for off piste skiing (ESP talking abt Japan).

I followed Cover More - one of the companies mentioned earlier in the thread.

Fwiw, CM TI seem to provide better ski coverage as their name indicates.

Still I remain cautious - agents are very unconvincing abt covering off upset in bounds, almost doubting (me) that this form of skiing exists - even if it's apparently covered as stated in their PDS. So you're either in resort in piste (prepared/groomed) or your out. No middle ground - easy-Peazy.

But their basic policy cover looks ok & you seem to be able to get cover for out of resort skiing without a guide with the platinum cover - not sure I need this as a solo skier on this trip but good to know.

I note these to snippets from their headlines & definitions: does anyone have an idea if their std policy (ie not an add-on) looks sufficient for trees /off piste in-bound? Based on past/current experience? Cheers.
 

snowgum

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Ps: please sub 'piste' for 'upset'. - note that I hate nannying US spellchecking protocols!! :)-(
 

ski

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Hello
Sorry for asking the question that has been asked a million times - but I'll try to word it in a slightly different way!

I am currently getting travel insurance quotes for one months skiing in Park City (25th Dec to 25th Jan). Using Any's spreadsheet as a guide.

Previous years I have gone with AAMI but I'm a little worried now that my daughter and hubby won't be covered if they go off piste in bounds (which they tend to do a lot!).

The cheapest I can get is $730 for all the companies that explicitly cover off piste in bounds - as opposed to AAMIs $415.

Obviously the $415 is a lot more appealing than $730 - I've read AAMIs PDS and there is still nothing in the PDS that excludes ski cover. So my question is; If the PDS does not explicitly say it excludes skiing off piste in bounds - does that mean they will be covered in case of an accident?
 

skichic

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Hello
Sorry for asking the question that has been asked a million times - but I'll try to word it in a slightly different way!

I am currently getting travel insurance quotes for one months skiing in Park City (25th Dec to 25th Jan). Using Any's spreadsheet as a guide.

Previous years I have gone with AAMI but I'm a little worried now that my daughter and hubby won't be covered if they go off piste in bounds (which they tend to do a lot!).

The cheapest I can get is $730 for all the companies that explicitly cover off piste in bounds - as opposed to AAMIs $415.

Obviously the $415 is a lot more appealing than $730 - I've read AAMIs PDS and there is still nothing in the PDS that excludes ski cover. So my question is; If the PDS does not explicitly say it excludes skiing off piste in bounds - does that mean they will be covered in case of an accident?
And that is the $10million dollar question. Someone needs to take one for the team and test it.
 

nezumi

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Hello
Sorry for asking the question that has been asked a million times - but I'll try to word it in a slightly different way!

I am currently getting travel insurance quotes for one months skiing in Park City (25th Dec to 25th Jan). Using Any's spreadsheet as a guide.

Previous years I have gone with AAMI but I'm a little worried now that my daughter and hubby won't be covered if they go off piste in bounds (which they tend to do a lot!).

The cheapest I can get is $730 for all the companies that explicitly cover off piste in bounds - as opposed to AAMIs $415.

Obviously the $415 is a lot more appealing than $730 - I've read AAMIs PDS and there is still nothing in the PDS that excludes ski cover. So my question is; If the PDS does not explicitly say it excludes skiing off piste in bounds - does that mean they will be covered in case of an accident?

There's nothing explicit - a Supplementary PDS was issued effective 28 Nov 2019, but that makes no mention of the interpretation changes noted by others.

AAMI *may* be relying heavily upon the "reasonable precautions" clause of the PDS:
AAMI PDS said:
You must at all times, and at your expense, take reasonable precautions to:
  • protect your baggage, personal effects and travel documents against any initial or further loss or damage;
  • keep your baggage and personal effects in good condition;
  • prevent death, bodily injury, or illness to other people, or loss or damage to their property;
  • obey any laws and regulations.
If you do not, we may reduce or refuse to pay any claim you may make.

The only direct mention of snowsports is as a subset of the professional sports section which isn't covered.
 

snowgum

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Hello
Sorry for asking the question that has been asked a million times - but I'll try to word it in a slightly different way!

I am currently getting travel insurance quotes for one months skiing in Park City (25th Dec to 25th Jan). Using Any's spreadsheet as a guide.

Previous years I have gone with AAMI but I'm a little worried now that my daughter and hubby won't be covered if they go off piste in bounds (which they tend to do a lot!).

The cheapest I can get is $730 for all the companies that explicitly cover off piste in bounds - as opposed to AAMIs $415.

Obviously the $415 is a lot more appealing than $730 - I've read AAMIs PDS and there is still nothing in the PDS that excludes ski cover. So my question is; If the PDS does not explicitly say it excludes skiing off piste in bounds - does that mean they will be covered in case of an accident?

Hi Ski. You could try Cover More, read the PDS - their main policy seems to cover Inbound off piste without taking out the gold/platinum options - the latter seemed to cover Out of Tesort skiing without a guide but could get real exi.

US will naturally be way more expensive due to costs of treatment & lawyers, etc...

Also see see ski insurance.com & Defence Health but I’m still sussing out their wording for OP cover.
 

skichic

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There's nothing explicit - a Supplementary PDS was issued effective 28 Nov 2019, but that makes no mention of the interpretation changes noted by others.

AAMI *may* be relying heavily upon the "reasonable precautions" clause of the PDS:


The only direct mention of snowsports is as a subset of the professional sports section which isn't covered.
Nothing in there about reasonable precautions for your own safety.
 

ski

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Jan 8, 2011
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Hi Ski. You could try Cover More, read the PDS - their main policy seems to cover Inbound off piste without taking out the gold/platinum options - the latter seemed to cover Out of Tesort skiing without a guide but could get real exi.

US will naturally be way more expensive due to costs of treatment & lawyers, etc...

Also see see ski insurance.com & Defence Health but I’m still sussing out their wording for OP cover.


Covermore was $880, Defence Plan $900 and Ski Insurance was a whopping $1473!

I think I might just have to pay the $730
 

Any

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Hi Ski. You could try Cover More, read the PDS - their main policy seems to cover Inbound off piste without taking out the gold/platinum options - the latter seemed to cover Out of Tesort skiing without a guide but could get real exi.

US will naturally be way more expensive due to costs of treatment & lawyers, etc...

Also see see ski insurance.com & Defence Health but I’m still sussing out their wording for OP cover.
normal CoverMore is one of the worst.
Piste only.

Even if You pay the extra premium, You will only be covered if:
• You are skiing or snowboarding On-Piste;
• You are not racing; and
• You are not participating in a Professional capacity.
"platinum" CoverMore is mediocre at most.
inbounds offpiste only, which most others still have on their basic level.
* Cover only applies within the resort boundary both On-Piste and off-piste.​
 
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Gregah

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There's nothing explicit - a Supplementary PDS was issued effective 28 Nov 2019, but that makes no mention of the interpretation changes noted by others.

AAMI *may* be relying heavily upon the "reasonable precautions" clause of the PDS:


The only direct mention of snowsports is as a subset of the professional sports section which isn't covered.
Yes it does look that way. Any lawyers amongst us know if "reasonable precautions" (for any adventure sports) has been tested before our courts...?
 

LMB

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Yes it does look that way. Any lawyers amongst us know if "reasonable precautions" (for any adventure sports) has been tested before our courts...?
I think reasonable precautions could be argued in a court - prepared, geared up, trained, read avie report, physically fit, actively trained, travel in a group of similar skill/preparedness, didn’t go out against recommendations.

I’d be prepared to risk it and test it.
Especially as I wouldn’t be willingly taking known unacceptable risks anyway.

If you’re a rope ducking cowboy who is hitting up (non existent) “slackcounty” without gear or going in prepared then I’d say the risk isn’t worth it. But I’d also say the risk of skiing it isn’t worth it under those circumstances.

What I do know is the more people who call AAMI to get specific clarification on this, the quicker AAMI will write in a specific clause not covering any off piste in a knee jerk reaction.
 

Any

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Whelp, that'll show me for reading while sleepy.

I... actually can't find anything in there directly about taking steps to ensure your own safety. :/
pretty sure i saw it in there in some obscure spot. i cant find it now tho.
 

snowgum

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normal CoverMore is one of the worst.
Piste only.

Even if You pay the extra premium, You will only be covered if:
• You are skiing or snowboarding On-Piste;
• You are not racing; and
• You are not participating in a Professional capacity.
"platinum" CoverMore is mediocre at most.
inbounds offpiste only, which most others still have on their basic level.
* Cover only applies within the resort boundary both On-Piste and off-piste.​

Cheers Any, CM diverted me off shore when I asked for more info.

Do you have any good (recent) prospects btw?

Have seen do many suggestions its bamboozling!!

Btw; I hope theres plenty of IB OP at Huka/SK after all this! (/:-/)

Be a shame if its mostly academic!!
 

Any

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Cheers Any, CM diverted me off shore when I asked for more info.

Do you have any good (recent) prospects btw?

Have seen do many suggestions its bamboozling!!

Btw; I hope theres plenty of IB OP at Huka/SK after all this! (/:-/)

Be a shame if its mostly academic!!
we do need a volunteer sacrifice to test bupa global or aig.
appreciate a femur or tibia in the slackcountry plz. k thanks.

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-TJqFo7vZCHu2g4ZAWlXFta517Zm22CTmKvr4gHkdAA/
 

LMB

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we do need a volunteer sacrifice to test bupa global.
appreciate a femur or tibia in the slackcountry plz. k thanks.
Should NOT put that shit out there Mr! Could come back to bite ya.
 
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