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Skier suing skier - do we need this?

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Annabuzzy, Sep 1, 2019.

  1. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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  2. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    There are way too many people out there skiing and boarding at speeds way beyond their abilities. Just check out the dickheads on PSR posting videos of themselves straightlining runs at speeds near 100km/hr.

    Mistakes happen sure, but if you intentionally ski or board without due care and injure or kill someone then you should be held accountable.
     
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  3. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    My first preference would be no fault injury and disability insurance, like the vic traffic accident scheme.
    Failing that, then i have no problem with people seeking to recover money for serious injuries. I would like to see better legal support for the skier code to define who has right of way etc.

    My main fear when skiing is being injured by others on the slopes. Lots of my friends feel the same. I've read posters on these forums saying that people have a right to go fast and it's just tough luck if they hit someone going slower, or daring to make turns below them. That attitude is terrifying and needs to be stamped out.

    Many surgeons discourage skiing after the surgery I've had. Mine is more understanding but has cautioned me about the risk of very dire consequences if I am run down. I avoid busy days and busy runs. I have not skiied on a sat or sun all season.
     
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  4. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    A successful suit against one of the resorts for not properly policing slow zones and which could be linked to an injury might cause resorts to clamp down on reckless riders.
     
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  5. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    They can’t be everywhere, and I’ve been ticked off for speed at times. But my eyes are constantly scanning and I’m pretty confident I could avoid someone else. It’s the overconfident or out of control down runs like a Towers or Ridge that scare me. I will pull over to the side and let others pass if I think they’re a risk. I look over my shoulder before making bigger turns and give beginners and kids a very wide berth. And always try and pass boarders on their toe edge.

    But I don’t know that the average snow person skis defensively like that. An injury does that.
     
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  6. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Scuba, recreational boating, parachuting, and probably others that i can't think of, need formal accreditation. Sometimes i think we need that in snowsports. Need to pass a test (theory for rules & ettiquette and a few skills) to get off an introductory slope.

    Won't ever happen because it would hurt profits
     
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  7. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I generally ski on less populated runs as I agree the greatest danger on the mountain is other skiers.

    But my reading of that summary is the passing skier effectively ran out of room. Yes, the code says the uphill skier is responsible, and I’m not suggesting otherwise. But on my reading between the lines the passing skier initiated the overtake when there was room to do so (maybe *just*) but gap got closed by the downhill skier, probably oblivious to the uphill skiers presence.

    For me, while there’s “fault” some incidents have more grave levels of fault than others. If what started as a safe overtake turned unsafe because of an unpredictable turn from the downhill skier, yes uphill is at “fault” but it seems to me a lesser level of fault than out and out reckless skiing. These sorts of accidental collisions happen every day on our mountains. Are we really planning to litigate them?

    And if they do insist on litigating, why not sue the resorts for having overcrowded dangerous runs? That’s not a momentary mistake. That’s an intentional choice, leading to just this situation (slow cautious unpredictable skier on narrow run with faster skiers, with no room to manoeuvre).
     
  8. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you’re passing someone it’s your responsibility to avoid someone in front and allow for turns. I’ll call out in a scenario like that, as I do on my bike “passing on your right”. But the behind skier didn’t slow down either according to the report. Slow down, expect the unexpected. If it’s not safe to pass, don’t.
     
  9. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Litigation doesn't serve as a deterrent though , does it?
     
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  10. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Exactly! There should be some accreditation or at the very least staff can cite out of control or reckless riders and require them to undertake some formal lessons before being allowed out again. Yes it could hurt profits if only one resort did it but if they all got together to agree on it then less likely to be impact profits.
     
  11. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    I do agree with you.

    But there’s a scale of bad “at fault” behaviour and I put that toward the lower end of it
     
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  12. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I’m more of a black and white person ;)
     
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  13. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    The perp was insured. Maybe he invited the victim to sue.

    I was injured in a lesson once and the ski school told me outright that they were insured and invited me to sue them (I didn't).
     
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  14. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    There’s a good chance of that, yes.

    I’d just hate to see our mountains become a litigation playground. There’s enough BS on the hill without people suing each other for transgressions toward the lesser end of the “wrong” scale.
     
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  15. MickM

    MickM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    This in spades. I love going fast but only when the run is clear. Always slow right down when anyone, esp kids in the area. Weekends are the worst, which is why I tend to go midweek.

    I ski Buller and the worst runs are Buller Spur/Wombat, lots of out of control punters going too fast. They do patrol on weekends but have never seen a pass revoked. Saw one guy straight lining Wombat with a selfie stick and although he was obviously a good skier there were beginners traversing and just takes a small error to be out of control. Must be very intimidating for the nervous beginner/intermediate or parents with small kids. Another issue is people dropping in as if they are in a half pipe, lots of blind spots.

    In the end it comes down to awareness of who is around you.

    Best way to avoid the heroes is just ski black runs. Never an issue on them!
     
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  16. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    too many lawyers are never enough
    I note that they have a Colorado Skier Safety Act, so this kind of thing might be inevitable
    act here
     
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  17. sara777

    sara777 A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    I saw the PSR videos. Unbelievable. I think only one person commented that it was wrong, the rest called her/him ‘fun police’. I left the group, it’s just too much.
     
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  18. Piste Again

    Piste Again Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    A broken bone and 2 years of rehab isn't a minor outcome. This is the USA remember - the $750K probably only just covers the out of pocket medical expenses.
     
  19. MickM

    MickM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Exactly, just puts up the price of lift tickets.

    Needs more serious policing. If people think they can get away with it, they will continue to do it.
     
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  20. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Definitely grades of fault. However in heavy vehicle traffic, if you brake heavily and i rear end you, i still have to pay for the damage to your car. If you run me down on skis and smash my leg to bits, or make me a paraplegic or give me a serious brain injury, why should you not be just as liable? Unless it is covered by universal insurance.
     
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  21. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Some people don't even know they are being dangerous.
     
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  22. person s

    person s Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    the ghost of Gough Whitlam is cheering you on
    however that might work here, the seppos like everything privatised, in court and litigated
    I note that the victim required bone surgery, so that rates a serious claim
     
  23. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    There is a lot of young bravado in the PSR group.
    So many new skiers
     
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  24. TOFF

    TOFF Im kind of a big deal Ski Pass: Gold

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    You must give way to the person downhill.
    This is rule 1 and any attempt to say ‘the person below me moved unpredictably’ is not an acceptable defence.
    Give way downhill, it ain’t difficult if you’re not a ****wit.
     
  25. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Litigation against the resorts might be the best way to force better policing. Just wishing it won’t make them invest in better policing.
     
  26. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    The designated slow zones in Breckenridge were very well policed, and fenced. It’s the more advanced areas where I feel more at risk. First tracks on Ridge terrifies me. I’m at the back on the run down and generally end up on Summit fairly quickly.
     
  27. Joe2020

    Joe2020 One of Us

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    Serving alcohol early in the day doesn't help, it's only a matter of time before it goes pear shaped in Auz.
    I have many memories of Perisher power drinking yobbos running a muck, poor mountain etiquette, whizzing past woman and children with not even a " coming through " warning.

    They load up and charge like animals, the alpine safety act is an afterthought.
     
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  28. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    True. All true.

    When I first learnt to ski a woman broke her ankle getting off the chairlift at Friday flat just ahead of me. She just fell over and *snap* broke her ankle.

    I only tell that anecdote to draw attention to the possibility the extent of injuries may not necessarily mean the passing skier was doing so at a rate of knots.
     
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  29. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    The slow zones at Perisher don’t seem to be though. I’m worried about beginners doing the right thing and diligently practicing their turns, while reckless and equally inexperienced riders think it’s hilarious barrelling down FV out of control.
     
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  30. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    No excuse for failing to overtake safely.
     
  31. dawooduck

    dawooduck relaxed and comfortable Ski Pass: Gold

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    Most. The lack of care for others is well displayed from carpark to ski slopes.
     
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  32. LDJ

    LDJ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Let’s not get too Aussie on this and demand rules for everything. Skiing is inherently dangerous and yes there are some idiots but the vast majority are fine. I don’t want to get to a point where you can’t go fast when it’s safe to do it. Also calling to someone when you pass them can be dangerous. I have seen people panic, fall over or do something random when people call out to them. I just expect everyone to do something crazy or unexpected and mediate my speed in context ie no 100km+ down towers on busy days but if you are skiing on clear run hell yer go for it. In regards to specifically overtaking you should never hit someone fullstop.
     
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  33. MickM

    MickM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yep, I can see your point.
     
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  34. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Totally agree with this but I don’t think anyone is suggesting anything different.
     
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  35. Call_me_Ishmael

    Call_me_Ishmael One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    and New Zealand...includes poor medical outcomes there as well
    Won't happen here because 90% of our politicians are lawyers and insurance/negligence/litigation is how they breed
     
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  36. LDJ

    LDJ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    When people start suing people/resorts they have to control speed as it something they can try to control, in reality there is no way they are going to stop poor technique punters skiing they would go out of business. Speed is one factor in crashes but I worry that it’s pretty much the only one the resorts can impact (unless they build another 30 lifts to reduce congestion ;)) so suing will equal speed restrictions

    .
     
  37. Kletterer

    Kletterer Thredbo Doughnut Tragic Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    This is why i like sidecountry/ backcountry where its more personal.
     
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  38. MickM

    MickM One of Us Ski Pass: Gold Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah, we would all like it if they didn't pull you up if you were in control, but would be hard to judge. Unfortunately, the reality is if rules come in they will be a blanket approach. See it in the workplace all the time.

    I would like patrol to cancel tickets of those being totally reckless, and they are easy to spot.

    Might make others on the borderline think twice.

    No easy solution, some people are just entitled.
     
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  39. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Last week at Thredbo I witnessed a curious interaction at the load of Sponars.

    A chap I have seen about Thredbo came up to another chap I have also seen about Thredbo and in summary (not word for word) said "you went past me and missed me by inches and were going way to fast for that and are to give way to people below you, stop this, you are an idiot to be skiing this way."

    The response was "if you don't get away from me now I'll call the police"
     
  40. crackson

    crackson A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    Thredbo doesn't have these issues.

    Take it to perisher forum.
     
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  41. southpaw

    southpaw One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I think there is a middle ground. Earlier this season I spent an hour down the bottom of front valley watching my kids do a few laps, I reckon for every hundred or so riders I saw about 5 or so that were a danger to themselves or others. Some were yobbos and others just rank beginners. I reckon if the resort better patrolled the hotspots where collisions were more common they could have a nuanced response - warn the yobs and threaten to cancel tickets ) and advise the rank beginners (suggest lessons, send them for turns on the carpet etc). I reckon this would go a long way to reducing avoidable collisions. I also saw very accomplished skiers safely zooming down FV which didn’t concern me nor should they concern the resort as they were careful in picking their line and were clearly in control.
     
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  42. chicski

    chicski A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    One word. Supertrail :eek:
     
  43. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

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    Agree did it once never again.
    So many people trying to fill their boots or beat normos world record.
     
  44. cornice11

    cornice11 One of Us

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    High noons worse.
     
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  45. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    ROFL
     
  46. currawong

    currawong Old but not so Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    I still worry about very good skiers sometimes not leaving enough of a buffer for things to go wrong.
     
  47. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Yeah. It's true. Thredbo has more collision skier to skier injuries than Perisher.
    They are also higher grade of injuries.
     
  48. skifree

    skifree grey Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Is that medical centre stats or ski patrol stats or a guess?
     
  49. Donzah

    Donzah Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hospital...
     
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  50. LDJ

    LDJ One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Definitely my preference when the snow is on but I do love an awesome pisted European or Canadian Red/black that follow natural fall line of the mountain and drops over 1000 vertical meters.