Advice needed Skiing with shorter ski's

pykie87

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Hi guys,

Wanting some advice.

I've got a pair of 2014 Volkl Kendo's (184cm), I've been slightly disappointment with them since I bought them them new 3 seasons ago.

I'm 197cm's, about 110kg's myself, I ski pretty aggressively, like hitting tight carves but also in Aussies conditions we need some all rounders because of soft crud.

I also feel like they are a bit cumbersome in moguls and tricky terrain.

Do any tall guys ski with a shorter (177cm) for example ski so they are slightly more agile, what would the cons be with a shorter ski like this for example?

Now I know they are labelled as all mountain and living it up in powder as well, but I found them almost un-skiiable in aussie fresh snow.

I was hitting dead patches everywhere (probably due to the wetter snow here), almost falling forward and over in the fresh snow on these. Turning was almost impossible.

Was wondering off piste if this was more to do with my size/weight needing a dedicated powder ski even in a couple of centimeters of fresh stuff? As the Kendo's have been shocking even in a couple of cm's of fresh stuff.

Plan was potentially to get a dedicated carver ski for the hard packed groomers here and maybe a bigger ski for my height/weight than what would normally be necissary r on the fresh stuff, even if it's overkill in Aus.

Thoughts ?
 

Kletterer

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Your weight and aggresive ski style would say to me choose a ski with twin metal layers. Have a look at the Kastle FX 95 HP with twin Titanal layers. Rumoured to be quite a fab all rounder
 
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teckel

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I don't know about alpine skis and camber, but certainly in XC skis if you are too heavy for the ski length, your weight will depress the camber to the extent that the tip and tail are no longer in full touch with the snow, meaning that you are only skiing on the middle part of the ski and the tip and tail are rendered useless.
 

Heinz

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Don't know about your situation, but last week in NZ the Wanaka guides were all stirring me about my 8 year old Mantras, so in the last week I had been hiring a few different pairs. Wanted to get the M5 Mantras in a 177 but they weren't available, so tried Salomon QST 99, Blizzard Bonafides, the M5 in a 170 before finally getting a 177 M5.

Skiing the QST's I found I didn't need to concentrate nearly as much on edging through the turns as on my old Mantras. Was harder to judge the Bonafides as it was a poor vis TC day so didn't push it, but they cruised easily through the crud when vis improved. The 170 M5's were very nimble but were a bit twitchy at times - just felt too short. The 177 M5's were much better, still very nimble but stable in the 40cm powder I had at Mt Cook. The extra length made quite a difference. Though it has to be said that is a small sample - the snow was so good that day I am sure I would still have had a great day on my old Mantras.
 

Sandy

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You don't want to go shorter IMO. You need to distribute 110kg on your skis, and a shorter ski will make things worse, particularly when you say you nearly go over the handlebars in fresh snow.

If you want skis that are more agile (turn quicker), then you'd be better off with a ski that has a smaller turning radius. The Kendo in a 184mm has a radius of 24.0m... I think you need to find a ski more like 18m.
Aussie soft crud and fresh snow, I'd be looking for a ski with a bit more rocker in the tip, but with camber and a straight tail, and something a bit wider under foot to spread your 110kg. (maybe 95mm under foot, rather than 89mm on the Kendo)

The ski is rated at intermediate to advanced, so it's probably not so stiff. Seeing you're heavy, I'd be looking for a ski that's slightly stiffer.
 

pykie87

First Runs
Aug 20, 2018
14
15
3
You don't want to go shorter IMO. You need to distribute 110kg on your skis, and a shorter ski will make things worse, particularly when you say you nearly go over the handlebars in fresh snow.

If you want skis that are more agile (turn quicker), then you'd be better off with a ski that has a smaller turning radius. The Kendo in a 184mm has a radius of 24.0m... I think you need to find a ski more like 18m.
Aussie soft crud and fresh snow, I'd be looking for a ski with a bit more rocker in the tip, but with camber and a straight tail, and something a bit wider under foot to spread your 110kg. (maybe 95mm under foot, rather than 89mm on the Kendo)

The ski is rated at intermediate to advanced, so it's probably not so stiff. Seeing you're heavy, I'd be looking for a ski that's slightly stiffer.

Cheers.

I took them into my tune guy last night, he reckons the bottoms of the ski's have frozen at some point in the last 12 months. The wax was stuffed because of it, and they had some pitting underneath on the base structure

He's done a full base grind and re-waxed them, said the sticking was 100% the wax and pitting to the base. Had a 1 degree bevel ground on the edge, will test them out in 2 weeks.
 
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pykie87

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Aug 20, 2018
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Your weight and aggresive ski style would say to me choose a ski with twin metal layers. Have a look at the Kastle FX 95 HP with twin Titanal layers. Rumoured to be quite a fab all rounder

I'm going to St Anton for 2 weeks at Christmas, so demoing the 2019 Black Crows and Kastles are on the cards.
 

snowgum

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I'm going to St Anton for 2 weeks at Christmas, so demoing the 2019 Black Crows and Kastles are on the cards.

Howdy - good to hear there's a quick fix.

I'm only 190cm but around 112 kg so I have roughly similar concerns choosing my next ski.

I am on 176 cm Rossi that 83mm but would like to go around 100 mm wide+ All mtn ski in the near future.

Fwiw: most sales staff are steering me towards a 180 +\- cm (upper-int /adv) but With your height, for some models, I could see some sense going to say 188cm ish. Get a few opinions. 89 mm is not overly wide for when there's some around, slush included. Good luck.
 

snowgum

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And yes, go shorter radius, my Rossi are a 17m radius. I dislike long rad skis in bumps/trees etc... (Not fun!)
 
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pykie87

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Aug 20, 2018
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Yes i'm sure a mass produced ski thousands of people ski on is the problem

I'm sure there's thousands of advanced skiers in Australia that are 6"6 tall and 110kg..............not.


You could probably count them on 2 hands, so what you are saying isn't really applicable.

As I previously said, the wax and pitting was probably most of the problem, as having ski'd the back of the Maze area at FC essentially from birth, as well as Veil, Steamboat, the 3 Valleys, St Anton and Niseko, I have enough experience in most conditions to know it's not my technique.

But thanks anyway.
 

Annabuzzy

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Hi guys,

Wanting some advice.

I've got a pair of 2014 Volkl Kendo's (184cm), I've been slightly disappointment with them since I bought them them new 3 seasons ago.

I'm 197cm's, about 110kg's myself, I ski pretty aggressively, like hitting tight carves but also in Aussies conditions we need some all rounders because of soft crud.

I also feel like they are a bit cumbersome in moguls and tricky terrain.

Do any tall guys ski with a shorter (177cm) for example ski so they are slightly more agile, what would the cons be with a shorter ski like this for example?

Now I know they are labelled as all mountain and living it up in powder as well, but I found them almost un-skiiable in aussie fresh snow.

I was hitting dead patches everywhere (probably due to the wetter snow here), almost falling forward and over in the fresh snow on these. Turning was almost impossible.

Was wondering off piste if this was more to do with my size/weight needing a dedicated powder ski even in a couple of centimeters of fresh stuff? As the Kendo's have been shocking even in a couple of cm's of fresh stuff.

Plan was potentially to get a dedicated carver ski for the hard packed groomers here and maybe a bigger ski for my height/weight than what would normally be necissary r on the fresh stuff, even if it's overkill in Aus.

Thoughts ?
I can say I ski a shorter ski but I'm 176cm or do and around 85kg and my "shorter" ski is 170cm so the relativities are around the same as your current skis.

I can say very heavy wet Aussie 'powder' can be very hard to ski no matter what skis you are using, but I can't say if that explains your predicament. It does seem to be your current skis aren't too long no matter how you slice it.

I have some Blizzard Brahmas at 173cm which are very similar to your skis and I find them to be great all rounders for Oz. I haven't yet found a condition they can't ski, but in particularly deep new snow I prefer a wider ski, and for particularly icy conditions I prefer a narrower one.
 

dawooduck

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184cm should be a perfect length for you.

6' 6" and 100kg is gonna need some platform to glide on. Whilst you are no doubt a well traveled skier I would be trying some more skis, maybe a 18m turning radius and work on your foot turning and upper body stability. Bumps and crud will test every skiers technique.

I always thought the Kendo was way over rated.
 

Annabuzzy

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[QUOTE="dawooduck, post: 3669708, member: 4673/]

I always thought the Kendo was way over rated.[/QUOTE]
Tell us what you really think!! ;)
 

Froff Life

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I'm sure there's thousands of advanced skiers in Australia that are 6"6 tall and 110kg..............not.


You could probably count them on 2 hands, so what you are saying isn't really applicable.

As I previously said, the wax and pitting was probably most of the problem, as having ski'd the back of the Maze area at FC essentially from birth, as well as Veil, Steamboat, the 3 Valleys, St Anton and Niseko, I have enough experience in most conditions to know it's not my technique.

But thanks anyway.
There would be more than you might think! I'm 190cm and 95kg. Aussies get pretty tall (and heavy!)
 

azzski

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193cm and about 115kgs at the moment. Love me those extra layers of metal and a stiff, damp ski - but I'm not that great a skier and there's plenty of technique improvements for me to be had. For what it's worth though, the Blizzard Brahma fits the bill, but it sounds like you may be looking for something with a little shorter turn radius. My opinion of the Kendo was that it was comparatively less response and quick edge-to-edge than the Brahma.

I do ski a 180cm. I feel as though I could have gone to the 187, but picked a shorter length to help me improve.
 

B-Dub

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202cm and 118kgs - although advanced might be a slight stretch.

I'm currently on 186cm Line Supernatural 92s for the majority of my skiing but when it hasn't snowed in a while and I 'm set for a groomer day working on my shorter turns I revert back to my 12 year old Head iXRC1100 at 177cms. Next skis are likely to be Nordica Enforcer 100s at 193cm to complete the quiver (did I really say that - can a quiver ever be complete?).

Its hard to make a call on ski length alone as each ski has a different rocker amount but my preference is that at our weight if there's rocker in the ski i don't look at anything under 182cm and metal is a must.
 

Froff Life

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193cm and about 115kgs at the moment. Love me those extra layers of metal and a stiff, damp ski - but I'm not that great a skier and there's plenty of technique improvements for me to be had. For what it's worth though, the Blizzard Brahma fits the bill, but it sounds like you may be looking for something with a little shorter turn radius. My opinion of the Kendo was that it was comparatively less response and quick edge-to-edge than the Brahma.

I do ski a 180cm. I feel as though I could have gone to the 187, but picked a shorter length to help me improve.
How do you find skiing 180cm? Your height and weight would lead me to believe you would benefit from a longer ski to have more edge contact with the snow.
 

Froff Life

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202cm and 118kgs - although advanced might be a slight stretch.

Its hard to make a call on ski length alone as each ski has a different rocker amount but my preference is that at our weight if there's rocker in the ski i don't look at anything under 182cm and metal is a must.
Ya, lot's of skis these days have early rising tips that mean they ski shorter than they are.
 
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azzski

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How do you find skiing 180cm? Your height and weight would lead me to believe you would benefit from a longer ski to have more edge contact with the snow.
I'm not really at fighting weight right now, put on a few kgs since I made the purchase :o

Seriously though, I thought the 187s got out from under me a little in the couple of runs I trialed them. I've never felt that the 180s were lacking for speed. I was crap in moguls at either length :D
 
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Froff Life

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I'm not really at fighting weight right now, put on a few kgs since I made the purchase :o

Seriously though, I thought the 187s got out from under me a little in the couple of runs I trialed them. I've never felt that the 180s were lacking for speed. I was crap in moguls at either length :D
I'm just crap in moguls full stop haha
 
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iagreewithhim

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Cheers.

I took them into my tune guy last night, he reckons the bottoms of the ski's have frozen at some point in the last 12 months. The wax was stuffed because of it, and they had some pitting underneath on the base structure

He's done a full base grind and re-waxed them, said the sticking was 100% the wax and pitting to the base. Had a 1 degree bevel ground on the edge, will test them out in 2 weeks.
"...the bottoms of the skis have frozen..." What does that mean? I shouldn't let my skis touch the snow?
 
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bawbawbel

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I took them into my tune guy last night, he reckons the bottoms of the ski's have frozen at some point in the last 12 months. The wax was stuffed because of it, and they had some pitting underneath on the base structure.
He's done a full base grind and re-waxed them, said the sticking was 100% the wax and pitting to the base. Had a 1 degree bevel ground on the edge, will test them out in 2 weeks.
Snow temperatures of minus 15 degrees can damage ski bases because the snow crystals are very sharp. This effect is called base burn (very logical ! ).
 

Joe

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I second the kendo/mantras as being overrated, more so the mantras. I was thinking about buying them so I hired and exchanged them after two days. Nice graphics around 2012-2013...
It's not uncommon to go shorter with age, less work shorter radius turns.
 

Dumphfish

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Sometimes in kiwiland we get fresh snow that is so wet and heavy that it is almost unskiable, the proverbial 'cement'. Might be part of the problem?
 

dawooduck

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77kgs 175cms tall and ski 180 Blizzard Bushwacker for fresh and adventuring and 172 Atomic GS for front side play. Both skis are 17-18m turn radius.

Also have 185 Blizzard Cochise 28.5m turn radius for the days when turning just seems like too much work. Total beast of a ski, far too much of a ski for Stralya.

I think would like the Blizzard Brahma

Kendos .... pffttzzzz dead fish
 

DPS Driver

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Sounds like you need a pair of 189 DPS Wailer 112's.

15-18 mtr turn radius, good rocker for soft crud, which is what really makes the difference in the mank. Stiff but light due to the prepreg carbon fibre lay up.

I'm in NZ at the moment and just posted in another thread about a friends, friend who is similar in dimensions to you, finding his QST 105s too whimpy. He bought a pair of 189 Wailers and is absolutely loving them. You don't need two layers of Titanal if you've got carbon fibre for grunt.

This would give you the design characteristics you need and the grunt you need without skiing on a battleship.
 
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skifree

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I’ve a pair of the 112RPC Wailers at 184, they have grunt, more grunt than i can counter with. Its a work in progress to ski well in anything but the soft, moguls are very challenging for this non-mogul skier. Great ski, i can feel the potential in them even if I’m not there yet. A whisker heavy on the tour, had to take them out to Paralyser at the last minute after a binding failure on the 99Wailer 177s. The RPCs worked ok but i felt the weight difference.

Edit
PS I should add I’m only a light weight at 78ish kg in my bare feet.
 
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DPS Driver

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I’ve a pair of the 112RPC Wailers at 184, they have grunt, more grunt than i can counter with. Its a work in progress to ski well in anything but the soft, moguls are very challenging for this non-mogul skier. Great ski, i can feel the potential in them even if I’m not there yet. A whisker heavy on the tour, had to take them out to Paralyser at the last minute after a binding failure on the 99Wailer 177s. The RPCs worked ok but i felt the weight difference.
I have word that a new W112RPC may be on the design table. It's a great ski and the staff favourite at DPS.
 
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DPS Driver

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What I’m waiting for is a new 99 Wailer Tour.:)
The Alchemist has been tweaked for this year but the Tour1 remained the same. The changes to the Alchemist have really changed it up.
Tour1 will get some love this coming season I believe.
 
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