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Snow Board Riders Please Read

Discussion in 'Ben Lomond' started by Bulldozer, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. xecute

    xecute Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    No, but I put my board on the same time I put my strap on.

    You only need the strap to get on to the tows. You also need to have your foot in the bindings to use the tows. So why need the strap?

    I have already bought a strap, so I don't really care. However the logic seems to be a bit strange. There must be a better way.
     
  2. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    There is.
    It's called education.

    Resort rules are resort rules and if you want to play on thier grounds then you have to abide by thier rules regardless of whether it makes sense to you or not.

    However the best way to keep people safe from runaway equipment is education of the user of said equipment. Information provided when people are hiring (because you KNOW they won't all take lessons) and a decent emphasis when learning on safety.

    I would also recommend long cord leashes that stay on when walking with the board for total beginners, while they learn how to best manage a board in snow.
     
  3. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    what if you are sat on a chair, with only one foot strapped in and the binding or ratchet fails?

    I've seen plenty of bindings that have seen better days
     
    #53 gareth_oau, Aug 24, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  4. Tassie Tiger

    Tassie Tiger Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Q: what if you are sat on a chair, with only one foot strapped in and the binding or ratchet fails?

    The answer to that Gareth is - you would not be skiing here in Tassie - Pomas and T-Bars only, our feet don't leave the ground !!!
     
  5. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    ah ok, tassie only issue, that solution doesnt address!
     
  6. xecute

    xecute Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Haha a chair... yeah... a chair. Yes, well, that would make sense. I would be very happy to wear a strap on a chair lift at Ben Lomond.
     
  7. criminal_minded

    criminal_minded First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    I wonder if the kid who was thrown 10ft into the air and then flat-panned onto the tow path by the lift on Saturday was wearing a life-saving leash.

    By far the dodgiest thing I have seen on a lift, and as a 3 season lifty I've seen a fair bit. I hope the kid was ok, it was quite violent and he was laying on the ground not moving last I saw of him. Ski patrol attended very quickly to their credit.
     
  8. LittleHell

    LittleHell First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    That incident was terrible! I hope the kid ends up OK as well..

    On a less serious but still outrageous note, if I get abusively instructed to share a T-bar when there is only one other person in the line again I will not be held accountable for my actions.. The actions of a few ruin it for all. One lifty on Saturday was so bad I nearly hit him! Forcing boarders to share when there was no line is just ridiculous! I mean he was even swinging vacant T-bars past my face until I shared... Interestingly though he thought it fine to let skiers ride solo when there was a line! Most people I know will instinctively share when there is a line, no need to hound them, abuse people though and the first thing they will do is get angry. Nothing like double standards to piss people off! That being said the rest of the lift staff were great, they put up with the MANY trip wire shutoffs and held their calm about it..
     
  9. criminal_minded

    criminal_minded First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    LittleHell, you aren't the only person who has noticed that one d*ck lifty. 3 weeks ago he made my mate and I buddy on T-bar. No big deal, I worked on a T-bar in the states for a year and had to enforce this myself when there was a crowd, but then I noticed that every T in front and behind us had a single skier on it.

    At first I thought it was an oversight, force of habit or I was just being paranoid, but I checked the lift line several times that day and sure enough he was making boarders double when there was no line but skiers were riding single. The tow path was TERRIBLE, to the point there were metal straps poking up out of the snow at the top, and so I saw a lot of boarders come off and return to the line which of course then added to the queues (when there were queues).

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of BL and appreciate the effort for often little return that the AE employees put in, but I've paid my $55 bucks every time I go up and I expect to get equal treatment for it if nothing else. This guy is blatantly discriminating against boarders, and his attitude stinks. I thought ski resorts gave up hating snowboarders years ago? Later in the day a girl took over running the lift and the BS stopped.

    At the end of the day it isn't worth losing sleep over, I was mostly surprised that someone would openly be such a knob. I guess he thought he was clever.
     
  10. Powder_skier

    Powder_skier First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    The kid is fine, which is good news. It was a massive fall too!!

    All in all a good day to be had on the Ben. good work team!
     
    #60 Powder_skier, Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  11. criminal_minded

    criminal_minded First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Glad to hear he(?) was ok. Massive is right, to my eyes he wasn't far short of the haul rope before he began his whiplash-plummet to earth. Did his board get hung up on something? I saw the platter got virtually torn out of the sheath. Nuts.
     
    #61 criminal_minded, Sep 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  12. Powder_skier

    Powder_skier First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    He yes.

    In my eyes he was higher than the haul rope. Epic. Only has a few bruises!!!! I saw that his board got stuck underneath his leg which got stuck underneath the platter (thing you sit on).
     
    #62 Powder_skier, Sep 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  13. Bulldozer

    Bulldozer First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    It would appear that he tracked to the left after loading and passed into the path of the the down travelling Poma which hooked on the poma on which he was travelling, possibly a combination of inexperience, lack of concentration or what I am not sure, just glad that he was not seriously injured and that at worst the rest of his day was buggered. Hopefully we can all learn from this and realise that Lifts of any type need to be taken seriously and understand that sometimes it is necesary to send rank beginners back to Ski School as the lift is not the place to be learning and Lifties are not trained instructors. (not saying that the young fellow was a total novice)
    BD
     
  14. Flea Foot

    Flea Foot Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    ALL our hire skis have brakes.... safety straps on skis went out about 25 years ago, and trust me our ALL our boards and skis are NOW no older than 4/5 seasons. Geoff and I have a rule between us...If it is not safe enough our children or us to use it gets a trip to the tip, no exceptions. That is why we rarely sell off any of our eauipment at the end iof a season. Flea
     
  15. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Spot on. Skiers never used to object to wearing straps (old leather ones with buckles). What's the problem, boarders? Is it not 'cool' enough? If them's the rules, them's the rules; just do it. Not worth getting your knickers in a knot over it.
     
    #65 teckel, Sep 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  16. Tezwah

    Tezwah Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Boarders issue with the leashes is simply that on Ben Lomond you are not riding a chair, your front foot is strapped in and sliding on the ground unless you are walking through the village. The leashes typically available down here in Tassie are less than 10cm long so you cannot remain attached to your board while you walk which seems to be the most likely time that you may drop/lose your board. Most people just buy a tiny little leash which does nothing and this is enough to keep everyone happy.. If you can manage to stack and get out of your bindings while riding a snowboard there is something wrong haha The obvious old danger (pre brakes) with skis was that crashing meant instant loss of skis in a lot of cases. That danger is not present with boards.
     
  17. Flea Foot

    Flea Foot Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    only board straps we have here on Ben Lomond are under $10 and are 90cm long and we would not sell the little tiny ones that were presented to us ! Most of our hires are to beginner to intermediates and they are the people that are most likely to have problems with the board getting away from them. Flea
     
  18. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    hey Tecks..
    do you ski? or even snowboard?...just wondering.
    cause some of the stuff you say is epically clueless.
     
    #68 Donza, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  19. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Oh c'mon Donza,
    It really isn't worth pulling out the personal insults.

    Having said that, I agree with your feelings about the sentiment.

    The thing being discussed is Tassie enforcing leashes when the large majority of bigger resorts have realized the futility of the device. What is happening here is a discussion of the device, from users, regarding its efficiency and usefulness.

    If I were to visit Ben Lomond, I would take and use a leash - because that is the rules of playing there - but that doesn't mean that I can't (and others can't) discuss what seems like a ridiculous and antiquated rule. Without reasoned and sensible debate, and people actually considering what others have to say, we would still be living like the Amish!
     
  20. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    I'm not insulting...and if I was I apologise.
    The statement for lack of a better expression is clueless.
    ie it has no appreciation of the issue.

    I get so so fed up with the anti snowboard sentiment from people who barely have any experience with the sport.
     
  21. Tezwah

    Tezwah Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Yeah I agree Flea, you guys now have the big ones. The leash i bought a few years ago (not from the hill) is tiny and serves no purpose but its enough to ease the minds of the lifties.
     
  22. Bulldozer

    Bulldozer First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Donza, before I start; I board and Ski but have seen the light and prefer to Ski
    The issue in Tassie is the number of pedestrian snowboarders that we get on our hill.
    Unfotunately the nature of our location means that we are well exposed to the roaring 40s and so with no trees on the hill it is very hard to get snow to stick and build on the crest of our lift lines. As a result we always have customers (more frequently boarders) hike the last 100 meters, up and across, to get that perfect run. Also with 100% surface lifts we have a high percentage of novice boarders who choose to hike rather then take the time to practice and /or have a lesson from an accredited instructor. This is where on a number of occasions due to the "Gnarly" terain, boards get dropped when people slip or trip and we have had runaway boards, Beleive me our open terain offers no resistance and with no trees or foliage to catch it they quickly descend the 350 metre vertical and up to 1k run through lift lines, ski school , village and carpark very quickly. As with any work place safety equipment and or policy, if it saves only one injury it is wothwhile, remembering that as a worker I have every right and expectancy to return home each evening in the same physical and mental condition in which I presented to work that morning.

    Enougth Said
    BD
     
    #72 Bulldozer, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  23. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    OK i'll counter
    How are the leashes attached?
    what design?

    Most commercial snowboard leashes are around 10cm of length. Attach via the binding via a loop to perhaps a ring on the boot.
    Impossible to walk in.
    The longer surf style leashes are just stupid. Dangerous to walk in.
    IMO the most dangerous aspect of a leash is taking it off and putting it on a slope.
    Ive seen countless times beginners go to put on their leash before strapping in. The only thing they have hold of is the leash buckle. This action takes two hands. Ie no hands on the board Usually the board is downhill from them. Swinging at the end of a small length of daniher webbing.
    two hands grasping. trying to join, or latch..or velcro.






    Your topography and wildness is no different to a what I learnt to ski on..small spots in NZ. Regardless a snowboard sliding away is dangerous anywhere. I witnesses a slideaway on Perisher front valley a month back. Now that slope had more people, learners and kids mainly at that one moment than you'd see in a month.
    This slideway was caused by a leash.Touche. It could have killed someone.
     
  24. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    [​IMG]
    The small ones are actually safer to hike in.
    Alot of people don't realise that you attach the small leash to your glove via the loop. Or alternately the loop inside your jacket arm. Its right beside your hand.
    When you strap in you transfer the leash from the loop to your boot.
     
    #74 Donza, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  25. Bulldozer

    Bulldozer First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Donza
    Old and Crusty [​IMG]

    Registered: 21-04-2004
    Posts: 28611
    Loc: wollongong 21-08-2012 08:41 - ID#1735469 - [Re: Bulldozer]
    A ski with brakes can easily runaway
    Ive seen it tonnes of time.
    Binding not enabled properly. Brake up
    bye bye ski


    snowboard leashes don't stop boards running away. Period
    i'm a model,"right so your mate with a camera who thinks he's a photog got you to get your tits out"
    So lack of consistency here Donza
     
    #75 Bulldozer, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  26. Ben Lomond Brad

    Ben Lomond Brad Part of the Furniture Moderator

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    I actually have one of each on my two boards - one on each board.

    I've boarded (and skied and still do both, even in the same day) for over 20 years on Ben Lomond and in other mainland resorts.

    Not once have I had a board run away. Much of it has nothing to do with a leash, but what was once known as common sense............

    I guess I've always worn a leash, and don't see the issue with not using it. The long one actually works well as a shoulder strap to carry the board [​IMG] and I'd never thought of attaching the short one to a glove - might give it a try [​IMG]

    If that's the rules the lift compnay make, that's the ones we have to follow, pretty simple really. I can see both sides of the arguement, but don't get all hot under the collar about it (unlike some discussions that have been had on the hill and in my ski club this year).

    As a mod note, lets keep discussing the issue, not the posters thoughts on the issue.

    BLB
     
    #76 Ben Lomond Brad, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  27. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Yes I ski. And I was skiing back in the days when leather safety straps were mandatory - probably before you were even a twinkle in your father's eye. So, who is epically clueless?
     
    #77 teckel, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2013
  28. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    The thing is tecks.. the straps prevented skis running away cause up the skis detached.
    Snowboards don't detach.
    Its a seperate issue.
    The only way a snowboard can detach from someones feet is
    if the board rips all 8 inserts out, or all for straps snap.
    if either of these things occured. The rider would be in a coma more that likely.
     
    #78 Donza, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2013
  29. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Bulldozer..I won't quote your horrendous quoting. As its all over the place.

    First of all.
    Yes i've seen more skis than boards runaway. Ski brakes are not the be all and end all. Its very possible for a ski to detach or rather incorrecty be attached. I witnessed it this weekend with my very daughter. She pushed down disengaging the brake. Yet due to snow build up around her boot the binding didn't enable..Though it was locked down.

    re the smaller leash. the point I was making was that its at most use attached to the glove while hiking. I'm 99% most people don't know this. Its pointless attached to the boot. As required.
     
  30. cin

    cin Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    I've seen a couple of boards shooting down the slope on their own
    ****en scary
    would chop a head off like a knife through butter
    I think we all get the short leash doesn't work because its detached before you unbuckle, but its also been made clear by people like flea and BD that the longer ones can remain on when hiking, which I reckon is probably the cause of most of the boards I've seen doin a runna.
    And IMO BD also explained the scenarios clearly, but several seem to keep going back to the same old short leash is useless and we have no chairlifts arguements that have already been discounted.
     
  31. Charlie

    Charlie Still the most depraved poster here Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Is there an opportunity for someone to design a board brake similar to a ski brake that will automatically deploy when the board is detached?
    Swingbows, an earlier contraption, now rarely seen, except on the wall of Kelly's Cafe, used to have such a device!
     
  32. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Ahhh...
    NEW INFO! Gotta love this open discussion thing...it does bring out the salient points when the finger pointing and name calling is laid to res.

    The information Newly presented by Bulldozer is important. It says 'hey guys, due to the uniqueness of our location we have a problem with runaway boards and are trying to find a solution'.

    Donza, I had also never heard about or thought of attaching the short leash to my glove, although I have used the wrist tighteners on my jacket to add a level of extra security to my board when hiking in a scary howling wind. This too is excellent information.

    I think the problem is that BL rules are that a snowboarder must be using a leash to ride the surface lifts... When they get to the top are they keeping that leash engaged while they hike? My guess would be not in most cases.

    Perhaps a better approach would be informational posters at the resort, and short message on the piste map, or similar that simply states - due to the high winds and high incidence of runaway snowboards it is a requirement at BL that all snowboarders have a leash attaching thier board to thier person whilst not strapped into bindings. On the posters you can educate about using the short leash clipped to a glove or sleeve or jacket when hiking, and safe use of the longer leash. Runaway incidents should reduce (which is the goal), boarders became more aware and informed about alternate uses for the leash, and those that already ride responsibly and have never had a runaway board will accept the specific and special ruling because there is rational reason, well explained, behind it.

    Simply demanding that they are a requirement to ride the lift misses the real point, the real problem, and creates confusion.

    IMHO
    And I AM feeling very opinionated today. [​IMG]
     
    #82 LMB, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  33. Powder_skier

    Powder_skier First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Here is a solution, how about we ban all snowboarding on the hill
    And only make it a skiing mt, that's problem sovled [​IMG]
     
    #83 Powder_skier, Sep 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  34. damian

    damian A Local

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    I remember a local surfer from the NW coast who wasn't even allowed to use the lifts at the Ben on his snowboard. That was in 1987. The leash thing will probably last until 2019.
     
  35. Rimey

    Rimey One of Us

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Ahh memories, Tecks.

    Leather leashes gave way to the elastic ones for convinence. Then the elastic ones were banned. Then the woven nylon type non stretchy ones came in.
    Leashes were banned when ski brakes came in. Seemed that on a slide, skis could windmill and if your edges were reasonably sharp, they could cut the skier's flesh.
    Happened to me when I lost it on the Wall of Death at Hotham decades ago. A few stiches in the elbow. No big deal.
     
  36. xecute

    xecute Hard Yards

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    I bought my leash on the mountain and I can not walk with my leash on because it is too short. Therefore I take it off to walk, and put it on to ride the lifts.

    The silly thing is; the leash adds no safety when riding the lifts because my board is strapped to my leg with the bindings. When the leash would be useful, I take it off because it is impractical.

    I know the boss hates signs, however I think a sign explaining why we need leashes (e.g. for walking not riding) will inform people so they can adjust their behaviour and also inform them to buy a leash that is actually beneficial to mountain safety.
     
  37. MisterMxyzptlk

    MisterMxyzptlk Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Interesting timing
    I was nearly cut in half by a rogue board obviously launched from the top of Merrett's at Thredbo last Friday in that bowl that leads to Boundary Rider
    Only avoided it because I heard a slight scrape as it hit some exposed surface...
    2 things occurred to me
    1) it was travelling fast and heavy
    2) how could it happen

    Didn't see the owner because he/she was above the ridge

    I could only surmise that someone had come down the Cruiser lift line, found themselves looking at somewhere they didn't want to be, unclipped to walk back up and lost the board
    Not sure if a leash would help that situation anyway.
    Tell you what..whoever owned it was up for a long walk down in soft snow to retrieve it, and an even longer walk back to the nearest lift
     
  38. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    I saw a runaway board on Buller's Summit plough into the lift hut at high speed - 2m either left or right and it would have speared into either the lift load or lift queue at head height. Results would not have been pretty.
     
  39. Heinz

    Heinz Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    That reminds me of last month at Treble Cone.

    Saw a runaway board while riding the 6 seater chair - it was rapidly sliding down the hill and presumably went all the way to the base. Don't know if anyone got hit. Got off the chair at the top and saw a guy standing there with snowboard boots and no board - assumed he was the one and possibly lost it while getting off the chair or before?

    Did a lap and next time up saw that someone else had carried it up, saving him the long walk down - lucky for him.
     
  40. ghost

    ghost First Runs

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Jez some blasts from the pasts here. Skiers being anti-boards is so 1990's. I have just as many stories of skis, poles(have you seen the points on them buggers), goggles, packs, sunnies, ipods, and wallets dropped from chairs with some then flying down the slope and just as many stories of beginners flying down slope out of control. Perhaps they should all have leashes. How about some personal responsibility to look after your own gear, and if you see some-one else being a dickhe*d with their gear, tell them!
     
  41. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    or we could just enforce rules for leashes on wallets... [​IMG]
     
    #91 gareth_oau, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 12, 2013
  42. LMB

    LMB Old but definitely not Crusty! Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    Reminded me of a funny incident last week!
    Kosi lift - howling gale (as often is the case on the best days) and a complete rock hard and polished ice slick at the top. It took me a few times getting blown from left of chair right the way across to the right hand side to work out that it was WAY safer for me to get off without my back foot anywhere near the board and use that free rubber soled boot to hold my line in the winds... was feeling confident of a successful exit from chair, despite the conditions.
    Skier on the left of me, two boarders on the right.
    I held onto the chair for a second to let the skier go, especially as he had pretty much pushed me out of the way getting on... well off he went again, wide duck feet battling into the winds (mmmm...not a lot of space for me yet..hold, hold).
    Then he has his incredible brain wave. Not going anywhere fast - I know - I'll pole plant and propel foreword.... [​IMG]
    ...on glossy see through ice...
    YEP thats gonna work.

    He hit them to the ice so hard that they ricocheted back wards and his right hand pole TOOK ME OUT! Winded, butt scraping on the ice, elbow to upper arm gripping the chair as it started to swing around. Fortunately the other boarders had got away safely by this time and I was able to pull myself to my feet and scoot away before crashing or causing the chair to have to be stopped.

    All 3 boarders were laughing with that slightly crazed laugh of a near miss ... skier skied off without any awareness of the mess he had caused behind him. Didn't once look behind. I was quite happy to do my ski lessons without poles - those things are a nightmare! [​IMG]
     
    #92 LMB, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2013
  43. MisterMxyzptlk

    MisterMxyzptlk Old n' Crusty Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    [​IMG]
     
    #93 MisterMxyzptlk, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 26, 2013
  44. CarveMan

    CarveMan Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Re: Snow Board Please Read

    iPods don't weigh 10kg, have sharp metal edges and a slippery bottom.