Snow chains for Disco Sport MY17

whatnamedoiuse

Hard Yards
Aug 31, 2016
5
1
53
Melbourne
Anyone else got a Disco Sport and rocking snow chains? If so, what brand/size did you get? Mine is MY17 and I reckon there is a good 25mm clearance at top rear of tyre to drop the chains over.

I have read in the manual that only half chains are supported. So where does this leave diamond pattern chains that are required for Hotham/Falls?

Spoke to the local experts in Melbs and they are concerned with clearance on R19s. Too far to drive to try on easily.
 

snow drive solutions

One of Us
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Nov 26, 2019
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Anyone else got a Disco Sport and rocking snow chains? If so, what brand/size did you get? Mine is MY17 and I reckon there is a good 25mm clearance at top rear of tyre to drop the chains over.

I have read in the manual that only half chains are supported. So where does this leave diamond pattern chains that are required for Hotham/Falls?

Spoke to the local experts in Melbs and they are concerned with clearance on R19s. Too far to drive to try on easily.


Call or visit RCS and they can provide the correct fitting and chain size from their extensive data base
https://roofcarriersystems.com.au/products/snow-chains/


Ladder chains, spider chains (half chains) Konig K-Summit and snow socks do not comply with the new wheel chain definition that applies to ALL victorian resort areas
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/saf...er-safety/snow-and-winter-driving/snow-chains
On pages 24 – 25 of the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations, the following definitions are given for wheel chains, snow tyres and 4WD-AWD vehicles
  • “wheel chains mean devices made up of chains in a diamond pattern that are designed to be fitted to wheels of a motor vehicle to increase the directional stability and traction of the wheels of that vehicle on a road affected by snow or ice.”
 

crackson

Part of the Furniture
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Oct 20, 2006
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Can you get your hands into the top of the wheel arch and touch the inner sidewall?

If you can't get your hands in then you won't be able to connect the inside loop to do them up.

25mm is a tiny space and doesn't allow for any suspension travel.
 

whatnamedoiuse

Hard Yards
Aug 31, 2016
5
1
53
Melbourne

whatnamedoiuse

Hard Yards
Aug 31, 2016
5
1
53
Melbourne
Can you get your hands into the top of the wheel arch and touch the inner sidewall?

The 25mm is space between the top of inner sidewall and suspension...once you are through that there is plenty of space behind. You can see in the photo the space between the suspension and inner sidewall of tyre.

IMG_7776.jpg
 
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burchie

Hard Yards
Jul 12, 2018
24
26
68
Ladder chains, spider chains (half chains) Konig K-Summit and snow socks do not comply with the new wheel chain definition that applies to ALL victorian resort areas
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/saf...er-safety/snow-and-winter-driving/snow-chains
On pages 24 – 25 of the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations, the following definitions are given for wheel chains, snow tyres and 4WD-AWD vehicles
  • “wheel chains mean devices made up of chains in a diamond pattern that are designed to be fitted to wheels of a motor vehicle to increase the directional stability and traction of the wheels of that vehicle on a road affected by snow or ice.”
I have seen this a few times, and I’m not saying its wrong, but after my enquires (as someone affected who has spent more time on this than I would like) it is not that clear cut. And that all comes down to the ambiguity in the policy and the definition of ‘diamond pattern’.

Konig see K-Summit chains as hybrid-diamond pattern and would probably like to see them included (good for business). They are still sold in Victoria after all.

Hotham’s local policy is clear and well established now. Falls Creek not so much (don’t know about Buller). After enquiring, Falls’ guidance was they don’t prevent the use of K-Summits, but they clearly recommend against their use for the reasons noted by Snow Drive elsewhere here (fitting to summer tyres is less effective, not covering full width of tyre etc). This is something they may change next season and maybe Falls Creek will be more in line with Hotham.

It is the first season the new regulations have been in place so teething problems should probably be expected (they have only known about it since December to gets comms ready…), but so much for a single Regulation for ALL resorts, it looks like local interpretations still apply.
 

teckel

Pool Room
Ski Pass
Oct 16, 2004
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Narbethong, Vic
www.mysticmountainsskihire.com.au
The 25mm is space between the top of inner sidewall and suspension...once you are through that there is plenty of space behind. You can see in the photo the space between the suspension and inner sidewall of tyre.

IMG_7776.jpg
There are ways and means of getting chains on - eg: do up the inner ring at the side and then rotate it to the top. From that pic, all looks well, and honestly, if you didn't read the manual, you would fit chains, and probably be OK. But ...
 
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Every2years

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Jul 7, 2017
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I have seen this a few times, and I’m not saying its wrong, but after my enquires (as someone affected who has spent more time on this than I would like) it is not that clear cut. And that all comes down to the ambiguity in the policy and the definition of ‘diamond pattern’.

Konig see K-Summit chains as hybrid-diamond pattern and would probably like to see them included (good for business). They are still sold in Victoria after all.

Hotham’s local policy is clear and well established now. Falls Creek not so much (don’t know about Buller). After enquiring, Falls’ guidance was they don’t prevent the use of K-Summits, but they clearly recommend against their use for the reasons noted by Snow Drive elsewhere here (fitting to summer tyres is less effective, not covering full width of tyre etc). This is something they may change next season and maybe Falls Creek will be more in line with Hotham.

It is the first season the new regulations have been in place so teething problems should probably be expected (they have only known about it since December to gets comms ready…), but so much for a single Regulation for ALL resorts, it looks like local interpretations still apply.
I'm in the same position. We go to Falls and bought new K summits last year for a new vehicle before the season got shut down. Going again this year to only just stumble upon this thread - glad I did. I also emailed Falls before seeing this post. Will be interesting to see what they say.

Who would make the decision about whether the Ksummits comply at Falls? The local police officer on the day?
 

snow drive solutions

One of Us
Ski Pass
Nov 26, 2019
119
276
163
MELBOURNE
www.snowdrivesolutions.com.au
I have seen this a few times, and I’m not saying its wrong, but after my enquires (as someone affected who has spent more time on this than I would like) it is not that clear cut. And that all comes down to the ambiguity in the policy and the definition of ‘diamond pattern’.

Konig see K-Summit chains as hybrid-diamond pattern and would probably like to see them included (good for business). They are still sold in Victoria after all.

Hotham’s local policy is clear and well established now. Falls Creek not so much (don’t know about Buller). After enquiring, Falls’ guidance was they don’t prevent the use of K-Summits, but they clearly recommend against their use for the reasons noted by Snow Drive elsewhere here (fitting to summer tyres is less effective, not covering full width of tyre etc). This is something they may change next season and maybe Falls Creek will be more in line with Hotham.

It is the first season the new regulations have been in place so teething problems should probably be expected (they have only known about it since December to gets comms ready…), but so much for a single Regulation for ALL resorts, it looks like local interpretations still apply.

These images will help to illustrate why Konig K-Summit spider chains, which are not a diamond pattern wheel chain, are are not permitted at Mt Hotham and why they do not comply with the wheel chain definition Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020.

Konig K-Summit spider chains do not comply with the new Alpine Resorts Regulations definition - "wheel chains mean devices made up of chains in a diamond pattern that are designed to be fitted to wheels of a motor vehicle to increase the directional stability and traction of the wheels of that vehicle on a road affected by snow or ice."

I don't see how any RMB, or Victorian Police, could 'over ride' the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020 wheel chain definition without there being a published & documented change to the Regulation that is applicable for all resort areas from November 2020


The Konig K-Summit spring loaded adjuster bolt assembly is used to reduce the overall diameter of the chain mesh to suit the diameter of the tyre that is fitted to the vehicle and to compensate for chain wear. It does not make the K-Summit "ladder" chain a diamond pattern wheel chain.

This Konig K-Summit wheel chain, size XXL, is shown fitted to 275/40 R20 Volvo XC90 summer tyre - note the chain is not central to the tyre tread. Volvo do not approve this type of wheel chain to this tyre size.

img_1868-png.png




Konig K-Summit wheel chain fitted to wide summer tyre shows more than half of the tyre tread uncovered by the
‘ladder mesh' of the K-Summit chain.

1624175943673-png.png
 

snow drive solutions

One of Us
Ski Pass
Nov 26, 2019
119
276
163
MELBOURNE
www.snowdrivesolutions.com.au
I'm in the same position. We go to Falls and bought new K summits last year for a new vehicle before the season got shut down. Going again this year to only just stumble upon this thread - glad I did. I also emailed Falls before seeing this post. Will be interesting to see what they say.

Who would make the decision about whether the Ksummits comply at Falls? The local police officer on the day?
I don't see how any RMB, or Victorian Police, could 'over ride' the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020 wheel chain definition without there being a published & documented change to the Regulation that is applicable for all resort areas from November 2020
 

crackson

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Oct 20, 2006
12,774
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Xg12pro is suv/motorhome rated. Also available in a 16.

I think you'll find they're very similiar to the aussie bogan spec t2's but with added traction plates. Cost is almost identical but xg12pro would have better clearance and ride quality.
 
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burchie

Hard Yards
Jul 12, 2018
24
26
68
Konig K-Summit spider chains do not comply with the new Alpine Resorts Regulations definition - "wheel chains mean devices made up of chains in a diamond pattern that are designed to be fitted to wheels of a motor vehicle to increase the directional stability and traction of the wheels of that vehicle on a road affected by snow or ice."

I don't see how any RMB, or Victorian Police, could 'over ride' the Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020 wheel chain definition without there being a published & documented change to the Regulation that is applicable for all resort areas from November 2020

The Konig K-Summit spring loaded adjuster bolt assembly is used to reduce the overall diameter of the chain mesh to suit the diameter of the tyre that is fitted to the vehicle and to compensate for chain wear. It does not make the K-Summit "ladder" chain a diamond pattern wheel chain.
These images will help to illustrate why Konig K-Summit spider chains, which are not a diamond pattern wheel chain, are are not permitted at Mt Hotham and why they do not comply with the wheel chain definition Alpine Resorts (Management) Regulations 2020.
I have no interest in this policy or its application, other than being someone who wants to get to the snow this year, and owns and has used K-Summits in previous seasons. I am not commenting on safety, as my trouble free experience alone is not enough for that, any chains can be used appropriately or inappropriately and driving plays a part.

I am sharing my experience having been in touch with VicRoads, multiple retailers and Falls Creek Resort Management to get some clarity. None have said they can’t be used. Others can do the same, it will be interesting to see what response Every2years gets.

The issue is the ambiguity in the policy and no clear information on Resort websites on its application. If the sole determining factor is a shape, e.g. “diamond pattern”, then that is a pretty important piece of the puzzle. K-Summits can have diamond patterns depending on the size, links used/removed and spring tension. Not all will, that is just how they are fitted. If this is an issue, then the policy needs to be clearer. It is not simple for resort visitors at the moment, especially existing K-Summit owners.

Given the ambiguity and the cost of K-summits, I certainly wouldn’t be recommending them to new buyers (and if there is clarity they don’t comply, retailers need to be informed to stop selling them to Victorian buyers). I don’t think they are a good solution for whatnamedoiuse. Hopefully you can work something out for the Disco.
A0CDD271-451B-4D00-A49C-0F8F18141C8A.jpeg
 

Every2years

Addicted
Jul 7, 2017
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This Konig K-Summit wheel chain, size XXL, is shown fitted to 275/40 R20 Volvo XC90 summer tyre - note the chain is not central to the tyre tread. Volvo do not approve this type of wheel chain to this tyre size.

img_1868-png.png



Konig K-Summit wheel chain fitted to wide summer tyre shows more than half of the tyre tread uncovered by the
‘ladder mesh' of the K-Summit chain.
1624175943673-png.png

Top pic - Why does it matter if the chain is exactly center? The contact patch of chain is the contact patch of the chain regardless of whether it is perfectly centered on the width of the tyre or not. As long as the chain is sufficiently on the tyre as to not fall off, which it clearly is, I can't see how it matters if it s absolutely centered.

Bottom pic - this looks like the K-summit size is just too small for that rim diameter (not tyre width) and so is struggling to climb up onto the tyre properly (compare with top image where chain has climbed on properly). The plastic arms are clearly clearly flexed out trying to reach big enough. No doubt this isn; a good fitment but this isn't just a Ksummit thing. Any ill fitting chain is a problem - K summit or other design. We've all seen other other types of chains half hanging off because they weren't the right size or were poorly fitted. (Looking at the plastic in that image look like it has seen some use - if the driver is still using them I assume that means they haven't crashed and despite the less than optimal fitment the chains then have done their job).

Calling K Summits a ladder chain is a bit disingenuous. They are not the same as an old school ladder - they are more advanced in their design that that. The key point is that there is always chain in contact with the bitumen unlike the old school ladders. Sure they aren't the exact same pattern as a 'diamond' chain but they achieve the same purpose - chain contact with the bitumen (and the K Summit chain pattern does include some diamond shape).

All chains have to be sized and fitted properly - no argument there. Just banning K summits is spurious though (having followed this topic on these forums for a while).
 

whatnamedoiuse

Hard Yards
Aug 31, 2016
5
1
53
Melbourne
Discos are heavy vehicles. I'd be going for a heavier chain than 12mm. Maybe T2 Magic?

Yeah that is what I am being told. Just looking for fellow owners who know firsthand what fits. I am confident space is not an issue on my MY17 model. But sellers are always cautious with chains I guess and want to fit first. Especially when they know they have had issues on this particular model. A couple of different places in Vic have all said the same thing, it sounds like its the newer Discos with certain rim sizes.
 

teckel

Pool Room
Ski Pass
Oct 16, 2004
50,991
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Narbethong, Vic
www.mysticmountainsskihire.com.au
Yeah that is what I am being told. Just looking for fellow owners who know firsthand what fits. I am confident space is not an issue on my MY17 model. But sellers are always cautious with chains I guess and want to fit first. Especially when they know they have had issues on this particular model. A couple of different places in Vic have all said the same thing, it sounds like its the newer Discos with certain rim sizes.
What are your rims? Manual only suggests spider chains for 21", but full chains for 19" & 20".
  • Full chain traction devices can be fitted to the rear wheels of vehicles fitted with 19 and 20 inch diameter wheels.
  • Half chain traction devices can be fitted to the rear wheels of vehicles fitted with 21 inch diameter wheels.
 
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Spyder_Man

Hard Yards
Oct 17, 2011
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Top pic - Why does it matter if the chain is exactly center? The contact patch of chain is the contact patch of the chain regardless of whether it is perfectly centered on the width of the tyre or not. As long as the chain is sufficiently on the tyre as to not fall off, which it clearly is, I can't see how it matters if it s absolutely centered.

Bottom pic - this looks like the K-summit size is just too small for that rim diameter (not tyre width) and so is struggling to climb up onto the tyre properly (compare with top image where chain has climbed on properly). The plastic arms are clearly clearly flexed out trying to reach big enough. No doubt this isn; a good fitment but this isn't just a Ksummit thing. Any ill fitting chain is a problem - K summit or other design. We've all seen other other types of chains half hanging off because they weren't the right size or were poorly fitted. (Looking at the plastic in that image look like it has seen some use - if the driver is still using them I assume that means they haven't crashed and despite the less than optimal fitment the chains then have done their job).

Calling K Summits a ladder chain is a bit disingenuous. They are not the same as an old school ladder - they are more advanced in their design that that. The key point is that there is always chain in contact with the bitumen unlike the old school ladders. Sure they aren't the exact same pattern as a 'diamond' chain but they achieve the same purpose - chain contact with the bitumen (and the K Summit chain pattern does include some diamond shape).

All chains have to be sized and fitted properly - no argument there. Just banning K summits is spurious though (having followed this topic on these forums for a while).
Well said buddy...
I've been battling with everyone on this topic since 2018 when we got our VW tiguan, we have used K-summits at Hotham multiple times ( Hotham will tell you there speil , that their use is banned at Hotham) I have driven in absolutely terrible conditions and the chains have worked brilliantly, I have even been stopped by police telling me they are banned and I said to him, which of the 2 evils is better now, for me to pull them off now or allow me to get to the bottom of the hill ? I even showed the police written correspondence from Konig regarding the use of k-summits and weather they are designed for winter or summer tyres with their response saying either tyre made no difference to the effectiveness of the K-summit chains in snow.
The police at Hotham did name drop a fellow at Roofcarrier systems who can help me out with advice etc... ( seemed a little odd police and this guy from Roofcarrier systems are so chummy) anywsys so I call this guy and he is very keen to sell you "winter tyres" and a smaller diameter aftermarket wheel set , which as you can imagine is a couple of thousand dollars later.... now if you take note of this forum, same individual is lurking around promoting his letter of the law... something sounds fishy to me....
These chains are perfectly safe, if fitted correctly and have been set up by professionals on your car... I found them to be a brilliant bit of kit.
If all resorts in Victoria ban these chains, then they have a serious problem on their hands with the ever growing Euro SUV market, which are becoming increasingly difficult to fit diamond pattern chains.
 
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