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Snow chains, Q & A for 2015

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by snowtyres, May 27, 2015.

  1. Hully

    Hully One of Us

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    I assume that if I purchase Nokian winter tread tyres from RCS to use with my spider chains which I also purchased from RCS that @snowtyres contacts Mt Hotham RMB directly and arranges for my exemption from the 'Spider Chain Ban'. :evil: :out:
     
  2. rollyz

    rollyz One of Us

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    How about these?

     
    Ubiquitous Steve, coolair and Towie97 like this.
  3. Towie97

    Towie97 Hard Yards

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    Denied.
    They don't meet the description in the regulations therefore they must be ineffective and unsafe. You would be severely fined.
    ____
    T97
     
  4. Ubiquitous Steve

    Ubiquitous Steve A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    nice gear…..yes they would go well on rodeo...LOL
     
  5. Hobber

    Hobber A Local

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    My AWD has high performance summer tyres - and there are many more of these types of car today than there were 10 - 15 years ago. I have driven many times on slushy snowy roads and these are like plastic toboggans. I have crawled down from Perisher between the Guthega Rd and Rennix trail and the car started a lovely 4 wheel slide. Judicious control resulted in a recovery (how hard is it to force yourself not hit the brakes!), but two other AWD were not so lucky and went off the side of the road. (one on the left, one on the right). Off camber corners on the Alpine Way have also been challenging.

    As I tend to be the driver of family and friends due to my familiarity with the roads and AWD, I chose to try Nokian Winter tyres. (not snow tyres, more like an all seasons with the snowflake symbol). I'd rather not have to put chains on /off / on (e.g. the patchy conditions along the Alpine Way) and I don't want to risk rim / suspension damage.

    The difference is night and day. The tyres I have are very low wearing and I got some cheap rims and swap wheels before I first go down, and pull them off a couple of months later. Or get the local tyre place to do it for me for $20. Remember the times you are using the second set of tyres you are not using the primary, so you are slightly extending their life, helping offset the cost.

    I think I am a careful driver - I am not someone who wants to slide the car, I have always hated the feeling of 'drifting' etc and am not looking to push my luck. I tested the grip of the winter tyres in the car park, and the traction loss is gradual, and quickly comes back. The ability to steer when reacting to other drivers or incidents, wildlife etc is very reassuring. These tyres give me a margin of safety for the unexpected, another layer of protection for the car and the occupants in it.

    Necessary for everyone? Of course not. Can they make a difference? Absolutely. Can they work as an All Season substitute? Yup.
     
    telecrag likes this.
  6. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    How much ?
     
  7. Hobber

    Hobber A Local

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    Bugger me I don't remember it was years ago - was well over 1k for a set through. But then all good tyres are expensive - summer, winter, all season...
     
  8. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo Ski Pass: Gold

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    Hobs

    I think you'd be better off carrying a traction control device. Eg. Snow sock, or traction devices like Sandy's, for the rare times you need it on an AWD in NSW .

    Rather than having to keep 2 sets of rims and tyres. And having to change them, when going skiing.

    You also need the space to store the tyres. Wives tend to object.
     
  9. Snowfi

    Snowfi One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    I have a question re ice on steep driveways for the coming week in Jindabyne. If there is a thin layer of ice on the steep, shaded concrete driveway with turns, will our mid-size, heavy, fully loaded AWD SUV break through it (as per my +1 is suggesting) and not require use of chains?

    Other factors - I am an incredibly nervous passenger, tyres are M&S and in good condition, +1 is a good driver but minimal ice/snow experience (with the exception of a couple of days last season with ice/snow on the road coming out from the tube - I had my eyes closed!).
     
  10. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    A high risk strategy.
     
  11. sixty_eight

    sixty_eight One of Us

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    How much ice are we talking? You could scrape it off with a spade.
     
  12. Telemark Phat

    Telemark Phat Pass the butter Ski Pass: Gold

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    Option 1: Gun it, could end badly
    Option 2: Take it easy and you'll almost certainly make it up
    Option 3: Park on the street.
     
  13. Ozgirl

    Ozgirl A Local Ski Pass: Gold

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    My parents (who live in Jindabyne) have this issue.

    It was suggested to them to reverse into their driveway.
     
  14. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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    M+S tyres are never going to help on icy alpine road conditions or even getting up an icy driveway in Jindy. Suggest your folks give Ian Arnold at Snowy River Tyrepower in Jindabyne a call (02 6457 2488) and he will explain why the Nokian Nordic range of winter tyres, Nokian Hakka R2, work so well in icy conditions on the roads to Perisher and KT. You can see these tyres on the shuttle buses at Thredbo or the ambulance and the RTA vehicles at Perisher.
    You will find the M+S symbol on most all-season tyres, on off-road and all-terrain tyres and even some high performance summer tyres may have this designation. However, there are no performance standards to meet or traction tests to pass. Any tyre with grooves at angles and with 25% of the tread void can be labelled as M+S. On icy snow and on ice covered roads the wide open tread grooves have zero effect on performance. Control of the vehicle comes strictly from equal parts of the tyre rubber compound that provides adhesion and the effects from the tread sipes.
     
  15. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Never miss an opportunity to flog your stuff, eh snowtyres? As I saw it, the question was about chains.
     
  16. themaninblack

    themaninblack Hard Yards

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    This is by far and away my favourite thread in the forum. I would definitely go out and blow $2000 for a set of Hakka's because of occasional ice on my driveway! Unfortunately they are not a tyre you will enjoy for the other 99.99% of your driving. Btw Nokian Hakka and WRG2 are marked m+s as are most tyres carrying the snowflake symbol so being marked m+s does not disqualify a tyre or mean it is incapable.
     
    #216 themaninblack, Jul 10, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2015
  17. Snowfi

    Snowfi One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Its not even my driveway.... only staying a week - but oh what a week it will be! Woohoo! Last stayed at this house two years ago and it was when it snowed down to Berridale (on the day we were leaving so we stayed put till the ice melted).

    Thankyou for suggestions. Chains are always in the car when the ski racks are on - for the whole season, even though we always use the tube. Good hint re reverse, used to have to do that up a steep driveway in my first car and had forgotten about it. Hubby has agreed to have a 'practice' putting the chains on in the garage tomorrow before we head up on Sunday. Given comments I will invoke the 'because I want it' reason if it looks too scary and assist in putting chains on if it comes to it.
    Will also pack my good non-slip Canadian winter boots (in case I can't handle it in the car) and a spade!
     
  18. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Grumblebum Ski Pass: Gold

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    It depends on whether the "ice" is real ice, like black ice, or just a frost layer. Real ice is a lot scarier.
     
  19. hipo

    hipo One of Us Ski Pass: Gold

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    Take your laptop out to the driveway, open up this thread - all the hot air is bound to melt any ice in the vicinity;)
     
  20. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Gun it and then post the footage.
     
  21. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo Ski Pass: Gold

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    If you must use the driveway.

    Take some pool salt. Sprinkle on driveway. Wait 20 minutes. Brush with coarse broom. Ice will lift straight off.
     
  22. blutek

    blutek One of Us

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    I've used chains in Jindy to get down our lodge driveway (in WRX). It was hardpacked ice.
     
  23. skinavy

    skinavy One of Us

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    :thumbs:Used to do the same thing when living in the UK to clear the front path so could walk safely to the car. Jebus I'm agreeing with Astro???
     
  24. alisha.

    alisha. Hard Yards

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    So after the last trip up the mountain i noticed this smell again.
    i engaged low gear coming down.. was a little bit of traffic so had to use brakes on occasion.. but most of the time got away with the steepest part in first gear then switching to second for the not as steep parts. no chains as no snow on road??
     
  25. Hermannator

    Hermannator One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    Legitimate question: Has anyone used diamond pattern chains on a BMW 5 series (E60, e.g. 2005-2010)?

    Tyre size varies but something like 245/40R18

    [​IMG]

    Did they fit ok, enough room to put hand under the guard to clip together etc?
     
  26. snosuushi

    snosuushi Hard Yards

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    Haven't posted here for a long time, but logged on yesterday to get some cold news to escape the hot summer here in Japan.
    And i found this thread interesting. Just a little re chains & snow tyres.

    I used to always put chains(like the rubber ones posted above - far superior) on my 4wd Hilux, but was introduced to the world of snow/ice tyres a decade or more ago. Never used chains again. Now have an AWD nissan and use snow tyres. Most people in Japan do not use chains 'cept those who only occasionally venture to snowy regions.Ardent snowies and those who live in snowy regions almost exclusively use snow tyres - from my experience & observation.

    Why? Because they are sooo good,. Grip, Control, Braking etc are excellent. Of course an alert brain, technique and common sense is also necessary. I live in a not often snowy area but often go skiing. I put tyres on in late December and take them off March. The times I'm driving on them around town means I'm not using my summer tyres, so I don't feel they are a waste.Also they are very good on cold road surfaces up to 10c or so. If the season finishes early I take the tyres off early.

    A BIG bonus here though, is they can be bought cheap. My latest Pirelli Ice Control tyres are ex and only cost me about A$85 each delivered from online shop. Cost A$12 each to change over. I'll be using them for 4 ~ 5 years I guess.

    Of course Oz is a different scenario, but if anyone gets a chance to drive with high quality ice tyres take t,because you may well be surprised. Happy driving.
     
  27. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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    From BMW/Rud
    snow chains clearance for BMW 5er E60

    205/60 R16 ja
    225/55 R16 ja
    225/50 R17 ja
    245/45 R17 ja
    245/40 R18 ja
    245/35 R19 nein
    275/35 R18 nein
    275/30 R19 nein

    Tyre size is likely to be 245 40 R 18, best to use RUD Classic chain as you do not have to connect this chain above,
    or behind the tyre. Fitting and removal with the very low clearance, especially when the car is loaded, will not be an issue as would be when fitting Thule/Konig cable chains.
    refer
    http://roofcarriersystems.com.au/item/rud-matic-classic-snow-chain/
     
  28. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Biggest trick in Japan is where to store the summer tyres..... And the tyres may cost around 8000yen each , but you still need rims as well.... or are you getting the summer/winter tyres swapped on the same rims?
     
  29. sixty_eight

    sixty_eight One of Us

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    In the shed down the back.
     
  30. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    In Japan, there is no "shed down back"..... :p
     
  31. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    So someone opens a warehouse to store wheels. And make megabucks.
     
  32. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Garages already do that in Japan, and strangely, the don't make that much.
     
  33. Donza

    Donza Pool Room

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    Well there are in Hakuba.
     
  34. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Well, that's different.... heaps of space in the country. The talk from snosuushi was more it seemed about people living in big cities("I live in a not often snowy area but often go skiing"), swapping summer & winter tyres (the bulk of the people who head up to the snow). In the big cities, most people don't have much room to store anything!!!! ;)
    I have one friend who comes up to the snow about 2-3 times a season, but he HIRES clothes because he doesn't have enough space at home to jacket/pants/gloves!!!!! LOL
     
  35. teckel

    teckel Pool Room Ski Pass: Gold

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    Should be more of it! ;)
     
  36. expatgm

    expatgm Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    Exactly ....http://img.weburbanist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/parking_3.jpg
     
  37. snosuushi

    snosuushi Hard Yards

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    Thanks Sandy. Actually I live in Shikoku - little snow in town - but venture to Western Japan resorts as often as possible. I know you know Japan well - but for those who don't and to clear up a little of the misunderstandings.

    Most people in Japan don't live in Tokyo.

    Millions upon millions live in detached homes with plenty of space esp those in regional cities,towns and rural areas (read millions)

    I bought my first snow tyres for my Serena AWD 2nd hand online (4 tyres on alloy rims) with85% tread for about A$300 all up. I used them for 4 years and bought the above mentioned tyres last year. So I have 1 full set neatly bagged & stacked in my shed (shock horror -a shed not downthe back but on the side) together with my wifes winter tyre set, plus camping gear, tools, gardening stuff etc etc. For interest my wifes set - 4 ice tyres on alloys - cost about A$280 all up - smaller size for a toyota passo. We live on a hill so good for the few snowy icy days we have. Such deals make having snow tyres a no - brainer. What people in Oz have to pay is eye watering in the least - negatively so!

    As I said before, snow tyres are not the be all to end all - nothing is perfect on snow - but if you've used good ones regularly you'd never want o go back. BTW I still carry chains but never use them. Bought them 2nd hand for A$30. Thought I might need them last January after 50 cm overnigh and our hotel is a 15 min mountain drive to the resort - but those pirelli mothers stuck like glue even on the icy bits.

    But I do try to fathom the conditons. That's as equally important.
     
  38. Sandy

    Sandy Dark Sith Lord of the Pool Room Moderator Ski Pass: Gold

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    Wow, that's some distance to drive to the snow!!!! If you're in Shikoku, I'd expect you'd have a shed!!!! ;)

    Most people in Japan don't live in Tokyo, but more than a 1/4 live there in the Kanto Plain.
     
  39. snosuushi

    snosuushi Hard Yards

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    Thanks Sandy. Yeah - most people think of Shikoku as the Tassie of Japan - faraway from it all. But my location to good snow (not the best, but good) is similar to Melbournes proximity to the vic ski fields.
    Less than 3 hours of smooth highway driving I can be at a resort like Mizuho Higland. 3 ~ 4 hours Hachi kita, 6 hours to Dynaland etc. And sometimes snow falls on the highways. I recall once a 100km+ drive on a snowy highway (San yo Okayama ~ North Horoshima) and those of us with snowtyres just calmly cruised in the centre lane while the others crawled, crawled with chains or stopped. Ahhh - the joys of snow tyres:thumbs:
     
  40. The Plowking

    The Plowking Part of the Furniture Ski Pass: Gold

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    Option 4. A bucket of sand (for next year)
     
  41. Spyder_Man

    Spyder_Man Hard Yards

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    Good read guys.... I just want to know, who has gone against manufacturer instructions and fitted diamond chains to rears instead of front wheels on a awd in my case a VW 4motion tiguan ? And was there any issues/limitations when doing so ???
    I'm seriously considering buying a k-summits for the front wheels and if Hotham doesn't allow me to go any further with them chains, to get out my 2nd option of diamond chains for the rears to satisfy Mount Hotham's requirements.... to own a 2nd set of wheels and snow tyres/ chains for the smaller diameter wheels for that 1 week a year trip doesn't seem to cost effective, all other resorts I can use my k-summits when going falls creek or mount buller.... confused on which way to go with it all ???
     
  42. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    I'm sure this has been answered before but how do people store their chains?
    And... do you apply anything to them to stop them rusting?
    I bought some konig-rallye-hd chains and store them in a waterproof pelican type waterproof case, rather than the heshian bag they originally came with but as they are all chain and no plastic, I end up covered in rusty splotches whenever I have to fit them.
     
  43. N0frilz

    N0frilz Hard Yards

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    Why not just put chains on the front????

    I seriously don’t understand why so many aussies put chains on the rear. Chains on the front unless you have a trailer on.
     
  44. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave One of Us Ski Pass: Silver

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    These days not always a lot of room at the front and lots of sensors and hoses too close to the inner wheel. I’ve got a Prado and handbook says chains on the rear as not enough room at the front.
     
  45. Alfred14

    Alfred14 Addicted Ski Pass: Silver

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    Yeah alot more clearance at the rear on my car and rear has LSD so i figure maybe a bit more grip, i do agree though the front does make more sense if practical.
     
  46. N0frilz

    N0frilz Hard Yards

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    My truck manual says the same but I just threw the chains on and checked the cleareance and never had an issue.
     
  47. Spyder_Man

    Spyder_Man Hard Yards

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    VW Tiguan has clearance issues on the front, between strut and inner wheel? Therefore I have got "spider chains" for the front which are designed for zero clearance on inside of the wheel.
    On the rear wheels, I have sufficient room to get "diamond" pattern chains...
     
  48. Spyder_Man

    Spyder_Man Hard Yards

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    Guys, also for the record, I have had lengthy discussions with Konig about the safe application of K-summit chains, to prove or disprove the myth that K-summits are designed for winter tyres and hence why they are not allowed at Hotham... for the record, Hotham doesn't allow spider chains of any sort, regardless what tyres you have on...
     

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  49. snowtyres

    snowtyres Addicted Ski Pass: Gold

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    "VW Tiguan has clearance issues on the front, between strut and inner wheel?
    Therefore I have got "spider chains" for the front which are designed for zero clearance on inside of the wheel."

    K-Summit snow chains can be fitted on the 18", 19" & 20" front wheels of VW Tiguan
    but there will be no warranty cover on the chains as the VW Tiguan Owners Manual clearly states..........
    "Snow chains may be fitted
    only to the front wheels"
    "They may be fitted only to the following tyre and wheel combinations"
    Tyre Size 215/65 R 17
    Wheel 6.5 x 17 Offset 38
    6.5 x 17 Offset 40



    Konig K-Summit snow chain Disclaimer

    READ CAREFULLY


    Before installing and using the snow chains, please read your vehicle’s use and maintenance booklet provided by the manufacturer carefully: most manufacturers provide indications on how to use snow chains. König S.p.A. will not respond for any damage to property and/or people and/or animals caused by improper use of the snow chains, or that do not comply with indications given in your vehicle’s use and maintenance booklet. The result of your research comes from compatibility tests carried out on vehicles using König snow chains. Said tests only refer to the vehicles as produced and commercialised by the manufacturer and tested by König S.p.A. The technical and manufacturing characteristics of vehicles and tyres can be varied by manufacturers. Said variations do not have to be communicated by the manufacturer. Variations can be introduced after tests carried out by König S.p.A. and can affect correct assembly and/or how snow chains work on the vehicle. König S.p.A. takes no liability for any difference in technical and/or manufacturing characteristics of vehicles and/or tyres tested to those of the customer’s vehicle and/or tyres. In any case, before using the snow chains, we advise doing a trial assembly test in safe conditions, checking, for a short stretch going slowly, that there is no interference between chain and the vehicle’s mechanical parts. The result of your research is purely indicative for the user. The latter must control and check that its vehicle and tyre characteristics allow the snow chains to be mounted and used correctly.