Snow chains with 4WD

Discussion in 'Snow Talk' started by Tweekin, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. Tweekin

    Tweekin Active Member

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    Hi all,

    With the forecast snow next week and the fact I am heading up to Perisher Sunday - Friday what's the thoughts on chains when you have a 4WD?
    Have a Pajero and I understand they are not a legislative requirement but if there is a lot of snow are they a good idea?

    Thanks
     
  2. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture
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    Yes. They are a good idea. No amount of drive wheels will make a difference on ice.
     
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  3. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    Yep, agree with above.
    I have a 4wd and just bought chains.
     
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  4. chicski

    chicski Dedicated Member
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    Or consider the skitube. Because if the weather is really shitty, your chains won't make a difference to all the other traffic.
     
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  5. Ralph_Plow

    Ralph_Plow Dedicated Member

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    If there's lots of snow I would not bother with chains on a 4wd, if there is lots of sheet ice from freeze thaw, then they are a good idea.
     
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  6. FatBoyDave

    FatBoyDave Dedicated Member
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    This must be a NSW thing. I'm pretty sure they are legal requirement south of the border, regardless of 2wd or 4wd.
     
  7. climberman

    climberman CloudRide1000 Legend
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    Yeah it is aNSW thing
    They had a go at making it same as Vicco and it blew up horribly
     
  8. chicski

    chicski Dedicated Member
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    NSW roads are pretty mellow compared to Vic snowfields. They get icy but there's no hairpin pinch turns with big drops off the side.
     
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  9. gaz35

    gaz35 Active Member

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    and the next question - front , back or both on 4WD?
     
  10. Garvs

    Garvs Active Member

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    The vehicles manual will tell you. I have a Pajero Sport and they go on the rear, which is generally the way for most true 4WD. On our old Kluger, which was AWD only it was the front as there was a bias towards the front (70-30 from memory).
     
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  11. Tweekin

    Tweekin Active Member

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    Thanks all - any recommendations for chain brand for 4WD .
     
  12. snowtyres

    snowtyres Active Member
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    For your Mitsubishi Pajero Sport fitted with 265 60 R 18 tyres we would suggest Konig XG12 series @ $440.00 delivered to you. http://roofcarriersystems.com.au/product/konig-xg-12-snow-chains/
    Check in the owners manual for correct information for fitting snow chains (front or back will be specified) and follow the instructions.

    Wheel chains need to have firm compacted snow or ice to penetrate to provide the maximum amount of traction. Traction is often lost when the snow and /or ice begins to break up or melts and wheel slip/spin is experienced or in certain situations the vehicle can slide on the wheel chains. In order for wheel chains to work effectively they must penetrate into a compacted surface.
    Wheel chains fitted to tyres on the front wheels will increase traction for take off and driving but can not assist with lateral stability. Because of the inadequate grip on the rear tyres the vehicle may oversteer and when braking the ABS system will be activated, further increasing the stopping distance. The problems are always worse when driving down hill than up hill.
    Wheel chains fitted to tyres on the rear wheels will increase traction for take off and driving but can not assist with steering or lateral stability. Because of inadequate grip on the front tyres the vehicle may not ‘turn in’, it will understeer and when braking the ABS system will be activated, further increasing the stopping distance. Again the problems are always worse when driving down hill than up hill.
     
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  13. gareth_oau

    gareth_oau Old And Crusty
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    4WDs help you go.

    Chains help you stop.
     
    #13 gareth_oau, Jul 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2017
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  14. teckel

    teckel Old And Crusty
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    Konig or Rud are the way to go. You should be able to hire them or buy them at decent ski shops/hires.
     
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  15. Tweekin

    Tweekin Active Member

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    thanks all
     
  16. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    I didn't know that. (I have a pajero sport as well). I would have put them on the front...
     
  17. Tweekin

    Tweekin Active Member

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    Yep just looked in the Manuel , says rear - I would have thought front as well
     
  18. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture
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    As chains are not compulsory something I would consider are Autosocks or similar. They are a fabric wrap for your tyres that enhance traction. Easy to fit and remove and a much smoother ride than chains. I have used them on the back streets of Val d'Isere.
     
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  19. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Bought chains to get over Hotham legally (thought it would be cheaper than constantly hiring) and had to fit them to the Nissan Patrol with AT tyres at Hotham same day as I could not get traction. A good thing to have. Have fitted them to front and rear of a Landy in some pretty severe stuff. One set would not have been enough. I agree the socks are a good alternative for NSW. I now have a set of chains for a 265/75/16 which have been used twice briefly and no longer need. Shop around on price for a set and do not buy Aldi chains. $440 sound a bit large for a set but that could be due to a special sizing. Normally around $200. Hoys charging $195.
     
  20. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    $440 for Konig 12mm is fairly standard.
     
  21. CarveMan

    CarveMan aussieskier.com
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    You get what you pay for with chains IMO.
     
  22. nfip

    nfip Part of the Furniture
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    same thoughts here.
    I'd prefer the additional steer traction rather than rear drive.
    You still get drive from the front when in 4WD so....
    Ice is generally the biggest issue here on the roads.
    Bit of snow not so much. IMO.
     
  23. JeremyG

    JeremyG Active Member

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    I carry them but have never had to fit them in NSW on a 4wd and we drive up to Perisher most weekends. By the time most cars are required to fit chains, provided you drive appropriately, you should have no issues as the traffic crawls. If you tailgate or fly past everyone else driving with chains, well that is a different story.

    I got some from Aldi, I think they were only $49. Suspect they are not the best, but if it is something you only ever need once in a few years, they will do.

    Roads in Victoria are a totally different story. Have had to fit chains a few times going up to Hotham. Had a different car then and we paid a fair bit for the chains.
     
  24. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo
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    35 years of driving to driving to Perisher. 10 years with an AWD. Never fitted chains to the AWD.

    Astro's Perisher AWD tips.

    On slippery bits, especially downhill, just slow right down. I'm talking 20kph or less if it's nasty. Don't let your car gain any speed on any downhill sections. Put in 1st gear. Use your revs to slow down and speed up. And watch your speedo. Looking down to find you've gained 20kph, means you now need to loose 20kph. And slowing down is where you'll come undone in a AWD. Maintain a massive gap, to the guy infront.

    Lots of snow doesn't actually always mean slippery. A bit of snow adds traction to icy bits especially in an AWD. The wind blowing the snow off the road, usually exposes large patches of ice, making it really slippery. Look for this and slow down early.
     
  25. dawooduck

    dawooduck Pool Room
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    and on the uphill maintain smooth speed to carry you over the top
     
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  26. chicski

    chicski Dedicated Member
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    And once you've left your nice safe gap, some ******** goes speeding past and fills it. That annoys me.
     
  27. snowtyres

    snowtyres Active Member
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  28. snowtyres

    snowtyres Active Member
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  29. Astro66

    Astro66 Still looking for a park in Thredbo
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    The OP asked specifically about driving to Perisher. VICs apparently haave the most dangerous roads in the world, banning everything but diamond pattern chains, even for AWDs.

    It's not remotely relative to Perisher. Perisher access is a very gentle gradient and camber.

    And posting it in the same thread as a Perisher specific question, will only lead to confusion and mis-information.

    Hothan information is good stuff. But put it elsewhere This guy is trying to get to Perisher in an AWD.
     
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  30. rollyz

    rollyz Dedicated Member

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    I was a passenger in a mates 4WD some years back, camping at Island Bend for the week, so we drove to Guthega. Road was snowed covered, and was fine to drive on without chains. But one afternoon, must have hit an icey patch and we were all over the road. After changing our undies, the discussion was about getting proper snow tyers or chains for the 4WD.
     
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  31. GS

    GS Addicted Member
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    Most 4WDs with independent front suspension don't have enough clearance between tyre and suspension components for chains so they must be fitted to the rear. Definitely follow the Owners Manual.

    Another option for chains...
    http://www.piranhaoffroad.com.au/product/recovery/snow-mud-chains-4wd
     
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  32. snowtyres

    snowtyres Active Member
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    More correctly ALWAYS follow the owners manual as many AWD only bring in drive to the rear axle after the front wheels are slipping because of loss of traction of the front tyres. It has been said that fitting of snow chains to the rear wheels of this type of vehicle is a bit like fitting chains to a trailer !
     
  33. snowtyres

    snowtyres Active Member
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  34. Ziggy

    Ziggy Addicted Member
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    One of the hirers in Mt Beauty has V2 Traction Chains that seem to work OK.
    I've carried them for years having given up on the euro brands due to regular wheel or vehicle changes. Never had to fit them so no experience to go off but I wouldn't bet on their strength in rough conditions.
     
  35. railuke

    railuke Just Registered

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    Snow chains are a cheap insurance. Although there are less pricey winter tires like Goodyear, Bridgestone and Toyo tires, getting a snow chain is a more practical solution especially if you don't live near the snow line.
     
  36. Annabuzzy

    Annabuzzy Part of the Furniture
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    I've used chains on an AWD once (a Subaru Forrester). Snow had started just out of Canberra. By the time we got to Cooma we realised it would be good to hire some chains. It was absolute carnage driving in that night, both 4WD and 2WD. We got through Jindabyne without chains but on the Alpine Way to Thredbo realised we should probably put them on. That first steep hill before you enter the National Park (the one with the overtaking lane) I had cars sliding backwards toward me. Quite scary.

    We plugged on, never above 40kph, and no less revthan a handful of cars successfully got into Thredbo that night

    Sadly the 1m of new snow was elephant snot
     
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  37. blutek

    blutek Dedicated Member

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    Firstly, tread depth. Avoid using tyres with less than 4mm tread depth.
     
    #37 blutek, Jul 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  38. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    I have been looking into this this afternoon, as it may not be so clear cut.
    reading the manual for the PS...

    "that on 4wd's in which the driving power is distributed preferentially to the rear wheels, ensure that the tyre chains are fitted on the rear."
    It doesn't actually say that it refers to the pajero sport.
    In 4wd mode, I would have thought power transfer was fairly equal between front and rear.
    I have repeatedly rung Mitsubishi Australia, who refuse to answer!
    3 different dealers I have talked to have given 3 different answers!

    Who would have thought it so hard...
     
  39. chicski

    chicski Dedicated Member
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    It's not in your manual?
     
  40. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    No, only what I quoted above.
     
  41. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    Hah, just talked to a 4th dealer, and now have a 4th answer!

    (One might wonder, when the question is front or rear wheels for chain fitting, how you get 4 different answers???)
     
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  42. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture
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    Diagonals.
     
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  43. gettingtooold

    gettingtooold Dedicated Member
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    Would it not be obvious to fit to the front wheels, if in doubt to have steering, brakes and drive rather than rear?
    Dunno I'm a numpty but driven FWD with chains for years and never a problem.
     
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  44. Legs Akimbo

    Legs Akimbo Part of the Furniture
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    I think the argument is that drive is not symmetrical front to rear. If the drive is mainly to the rear wheels until there is slippage it may make sense to put chains on the rear wheels.
     
  45. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Part of the Furniture
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    Drive you 4wd sensibly and leave the chains at home.
     
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  46. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    Pretty much.
    One dealer said front wheels, one dealer said rear wheels, one said all four (!) and one said one on the front, one one back !!
     
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  47. Snow Blowey

    Snow Blowey Part of the Furniture
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    I took my van onto a snow covered section of the alpine way last week to test out traction.

    Found a straight uphill stretch. Smashed pedal to the floor. Before there was any loss of traction it had cut the revs and was applying drive all around the tyres in a very short period of time such that the car never moved off a straight line and i didn't get any noticeable wheel spin. Couldn't even get it sideways when trying.

    The message being - you'd have to do something really dumb to lose traction in these things on the way up.

    Of course braking is different altogether. But using low gears when descending and braking before the hill sorts that out.

    Chains for 4wd only when in deep stuff or off-road.
     
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  48. alexd

    alexd Dedicated Member

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    The last time I drove down the alpine way I didn't use my brakes at all. That's why I bought a petrol manual car.
     
  49. Xplora

    Xplora Active Member

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    Not all car manuals have chain fitting listed. I have a Peugeot AWD and found nothing although it does say that when snow driving it may be necessary to turn the traction control off. Mitsubishi in a country where there is more snow may have a better idea or contact head office. Don't bother with dealers. I fitted chains to the front of the Nissan Patrol and prefer to have steer. The dual cab ute needs better traction on the rear unless it is loaded.
     
  50. Gimped

    Gimped Active Member

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    Tried that for 3 hours.
    All I got was a message saying that they were too busy, and leave a message , which I did but never received a reply.