Snow industry on brink of collapse after second winter of COVID-19 lockdowns and no trade

teckel

"I'm not a cat"
Ski Pass
Oct 16, 2004
50,770
25,145
1,515
Narbethong, Vic
www.mysticmountainsskihire.com.au
Significant ski gear sales offerings from the large local outlets (end of season) and from the American and European retailers (season start) at the moment - larger discounts than normal - suggesting a need for larger sales volumes because of the lockdowns….
May I suggest that people, particularly at the moment, look at purchasing from Aussie retailers rather than OS ones. The industry here is on the brink, and if Aussies don't support it, offerings in future years may be slim. Especially those who've been WFH. They can more than afford to support the local retailers who haven't had the luxury of WFH.
 

CarveMan

I Never Slice
Ski Pass
May 12, 2000
86,257
73,509
1,515
Les Hautes Montagnes
aussieskier.com
May I suggest that people, particularly at the moment, look at purchasing from Aussie retailers rather than OS ones. The industry here is on the brink, and if Aussies don't support it, offerings in future years may be slim. Especially those who've been WFH. They can more than afford to support the local retailers who haven't had the luxury of WFH.
Don’t worry, @Chaeron has been buying locally ;)
 

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
16,988
11,919
813
Taungurung Country
The choice for us is to either continue the stupidity in voting for them or that other stupid mob, or vote for a sensible independent - someone who'll listen to us when we tell them our volunteer club community is hurting.
Thanks goodness I live in Indi, it makes federal voting a very easy proposition, for me and for the local ski communities :)
 

Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
After not one but two consecutive years/seasons now of this covid crap there would be people hurting for sure, however, let's not forget there were some big, consecutively good seasons during 2016, 2017, 2018 AND 2019 with large visitor numbers to the resorts and their surrounding towns & I have no doubt businesses did well during those years. OK so we can't predict a pandemic, but for people who run businesses in these areas / regions, this should be a wake up call that they need to plan better for disasters because they could easily happen again and they need to have money set aside to weather these storms.

On another unrelated note, I also have no sympathy for things like Universities who continue to cry poor, yet, year on year they announce huge profits in to the 10s to 100s of millions of dollars, plus they continue to not only charge an absolute fortune in fees that increase significantly year on year every year, but run a terrible business model relying so heavily on international students to rip off. Where all those record years of $$$ profits gone?! Why don't they have a disaster fund set up in case of these events?!
 

climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
46,176
41,848
1,563
the sunny illawarra
After not one but two consecutive years/seasons now of this covid crap there would be people hurting for sure, however, let's not forget there were some big, consecutively good seasons during 2016, 2017, 2018 AND 2019 with large visitor numbers to the resorts and their surrounding towns & I have no doubt businesses did well during those years. OK so we can't predict a pandemic, but for people who run businesses in these areas / regions, this should be a wake up call that they need to plan better for disasters because they could easily happen again and they need to have money set aside to weather these storms.

On another unrelated note, I also have no sympathy for things like Universities who continue to cry poor, yet, year on year they announce huge profits in to the 10s to 100s of millions of dollars, plus they continue to not only charge an absolute fortune in fees that increase significantly year on year every year, but run a terrible business model relying so heavily on international students to rip off. Where all those record years of $$$ profits gone?! Why don't they have a disaster fund set up in case of these events?!
40,000 people out of work, wages reduced, billion dollar+ wages bills, etc, etc
 
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mr

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Oct 24, 2003
19,887
14,803
813
melbourne
I'm working with melbourne uni ATM and regardless of the business-model issue (to which i somewhat agree) i must say its pretty spooky. I live not far away and the impact is profound on the neighbourhood. It does seem like a version of detroit but with degrees instead of cars
 

mr

Part of the Furniture
Ski Pass
Oct 24, 2003
19,887
14,803
813
melbourne
......and only family businesses save money for a rainy day, IMO. Corporates? Nah, doesnt work like that, would be better i agree if they did
 
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sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
16,988
11,919
813
Taungurung Country
Just imagine if they made tertiary education more affordable and Australians could head to uni instead of getting bogged down in HECS debts and the unis relying on OS students. Fancy that! I mean, Melb Uni owns pretty much all of Carlton outside of Lygon, imagine if they paid their staff to educate Australians by selling off a bit of real estate!! Nah, I'm dreamin....
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
33,594
52,009
1,063
......and only family businesses save money for a rainy day, IMO. Corporates? Nah, doesnt work like that, would be better i agree if they did
Once you are big enough, when the shit hits the fan you ask for public monies, as if you collapse the effect is so big.....Quantas.....

Uni Chancellors are on over a mil these days.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
669
445
163
Northern Beaches
After not one but two consecutive years/seasons now of this covid crap there would be people hurting for sure, however, let's not forget there were some big, consecutively good seasons during 2016, 2017, 2018 AND 2019 with large visitor numbers to the resorts and their surrounding towns & I have no doubt businesses did well during those years. OK so we can't predict a pandemic, but for people who run businesses in these areas / regions, this should be a wake up call that they need to plan better for disasters because they could easily happen again and they need to have money set aside to weather these storms.

So you're suggesting that the solutions for snow businesses are:
  1. To hope for a lucky run of good seasons ahead, and
  2. Plan better for disasters.
This assumes that there are no further wintertime restrictions in future years. It also assumes that businesses whose kitties have been emptied in 2021 will suddenly become profitable enough that they'll be able to:
  • Cover any deficits,
  • Cover all their current overhead costs,
  • Rebuild their sinking funds, AND
  • Build their own disaster contingency funds.
And if they fail to do all of these things, it's their own fault, right?

On another unrelated note, I also have no sympathy for things like Universities who continue to cry poor, yet, year on year they announce huge profits in to the 10s to 100s of millions of dollars, plus they continue to not only charge an absolute fortune in fees that increase significantly year on year every year, but run a terrible business model relying so heavily on international students to rip off. Where all those record years of $$$ profits gone?! Why don't they have a disaster fund set up in case of these events?!

You do realise that Scotty from Marketing deliberately chose to exclude universities from JobKeeper, forcing thousands of staff redundancies during the crisis? Meanwhile, private companies were overcompensated by government hand-outs to the tune of $25 billion.

To answer your question about university income, please read up on tertiary education economics:
"Since government funding [from the early 2000's] no longer covered the full costs of expensive research or the strong growth in domestic students, universities had to find funds from elsewhere.
It can be said that international student fees have become an unofficial part of the funding policy of consecutive federal governments.
Government actions and inactions that led to such a reliance on international fee income have created a system that challenges a belief many of us hold dear – public universities should be able to draw on public funds for their operations.
Where in 1989 universities derived more than 80% of their operating costs from the public purse, now it is estimated to be less than 40% – a figure well below the OECD average for public investment in tertiary education."

How universities came to rely on international students
https://theconversation.com/how-universities-came-to-rely-on-international-students-138796

And also read up on the outlook for universities from here...

Australian universities could lose $19 billion in the next 3 years. Our economy will suffer with them
https://theconversation.com/austral...ears-our-economy-will-suffer-with-them-136251
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
669
445
163
Northern Beaches
Melb Uni owns pretty much all of Carlton outside of Lygon, imagine if they paid their staff to educate Australians by selling off a bit of real estate!! Nah, I'm dreamin....

Normally a growing institution needs to be able to expand.

Instead, you're suggesting that the uni should sell its own capital investments for its future to pay for its current overheads?

Where will people go for a university education when the university has been sold off?
 

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
16,988
11,919
813
Taungurung Country
Normally a growing institution needs to be able to expand.

Instead, you're suggesting that the uni should sell its own capital investments for its future to pay for its current overheads?

Where will people go for a university education when the university has been sold off?
I didn't say all of it! The uni is the size of a suburb.
 
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climberman

CloudRide1000 Legend
Ski Pass
Jul 24, 2000
46,176
41,848
1,563
the sunny illawarra
Once you are big enough, when the shit hits the fan you ask for public monies, as if you collapse the effect is so big.....Quantas.....

Uni Chancellors are on over a mil these days.
C and VC wages are interesting, but a distraction. Syd U has a billion dollar wages expense. Others of similar size are probably similar. They employ thousands of academics, technical, support staff. These are the folks hit by Covid collapse, not VC's.
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
33,594
52,009
1,063
Where will people go for a university education when the university has been sold off?
Pretty sure you can get one online, and depending how much you pay, you can get it today!

Personally I think the most important part of Unis is the research functions, which are also underfunded unless there is a business case for that research.

We have enough lawyers.
 

Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
Normally a growing institution needs to be able to expand.

Instead, you're suggesting that the uni should sell its own capital investments for its future to pay for its current overheads?

Where will people go for a university education when the university has been sold off?

You're right in that growing institutions need to be able to expand, but some of the schools & Universities I know of in Sydney are sitting on HUGE parcels of (very valuable) land with a lot of it unused even after many, many years have passed. I know for a fact the public high school I went to in Sydney was forced into doing this by either education department and / or State Gov in order to be able to afford to build a school hall so it's not unheard of nor is it unpractical. Perhaps, given the current climate, this could have been (may have already been) considered to whether such a huge storm....
 

Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
youre back in the 90s dude! :)

ill never forget seeing krista hughes from machine gun fellatio do a backflip on roller skates in the nude

Those were the days! Haha

I've actually been listening to a bit of MGF recently flashing back to the old JJJ H100's. I'll also never forget my first music festival - Summersault at Mac Uni 1997 I think it was.....
 
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Annabuzzy

That's 'ma Lord Buzzy to you
Ski Pass
Jul 31, 2012
24,384
23,514
1,063
Sydney
Pretty sure I’ve done my bit too
Yep

I‘ve ended up with far more skis and bindings and goggles and jackets than I can possibly realistically use. It’s hard to remember the source there‘ve been so many, but locally Rhythm and Carveman have been the leading on line local supplier, and Inski probably for bricks and mortar visits.
 

Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
So you're suggesting that the solutions for snow businesses are:
  1. To hope for a lucky run of good seasons ahead, and
  2. Plan better for disasters.
This assumes that there are no further wintertime restrictions in future years. It also assumes that businesses whose kitties have been emptied in 2021 will suddenly become profitable enough that they'll be able to:
  • Cover any deficits,
  • Cover all their current overhead costs,
  • Rebuild their sinking funds, AND
  • Build their own disaster contingency funds.
And if they fail to do all of these things, it's their own fault, right?



You do realise that Scotty from Marketing deliberately chose to exclude universities from JobKeeper, forcing thousands of staff redundancies during the crisis? Meanwhile, private companies were overcompensated by government hand-outs to the tune of $25 billion.

To answer your question about university income, please read up on tertiary education economics:
"Since government funding [from the early 2000's] no longer covered the full costs of expensive research or the strong growth in domestic students, universities had to find funds from elsewhere.
It can be said that international student fees have become an unofficial part of the funding policy of consecutive federal governments.
Government actions and inactions that led to such a reliance on international fee income have created a system that challenges a belief many of us hold dear – public universities should be able to draw on public funds for their operations.
Where in 1989 universities derived more than 80% of their operating costs from the public purse, now it is estimated to be less than 40% – a figure well below the OECD average for public investment in tertiary education."

How universities came to rely on international students
https://theconversation.com/how-universities-came-to-rely-on-international-students-138796

And also read up on the outlook for universities from here...

Australian universities could lose $19 billion in the next 3 years. Our economy will suffer with them
https://theconversation.com/austral...ears-our-economy-will-suffer-with-them-136251

Not suggesting they 'hope' for a lucky run of good seasons, but definitely plan better for disasters for sure. I mean surely a lot of businesses must have factored in poor snow years / seasons already plus after such a good run of big seasons their accounts would be looking healthy, but a pandemic of this scale? I highly doubt it - it is 'unprecedented'

RE: Jobkeeper, I was not aware of this much detail in it but definitely aware of the flaws in it and utterly appalled that certain businesses were given such large grants who have made silly amounts of money during this whole crisis, whom of which should be made to give at least some if not all back or pass onto those that need it.
 

Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
I didn't say all of it! The uni is the size of a suburb.

Isn't this what the Governments (Particularly Libs) are doing already? They love privatising everything and selling off assets, land etc. I'm assuming this model will be used in the years to come to pay off a lot of covid debt.....
 

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
6,400
5,001
563
55
vic
the anti-intellectual vein is strong in this country, a tall poppy thing i think.

Yes, it’s almost back to the French Revolution - execute anyone with an education - especially trendy latte, lefty, learned lads and ladies.

Fluoro jackets rule this country as long as they’re on un-unionised bods!

Why would one bother to study for another 4-5 years (much more for post-grad) to incur huge debts, rent overpriced dives, while watching your tradie mates buy their first or second dwelling? And get nothing but flak from the gutter press and various politicians- most of whom enjoyed a free or low-cost tertiary education.

We’re becoming (or are) a dumb country, run by dim-witted, backward-thinking, fossil-fuel lovers and cheered/ backed by a sycophantic Murdoch press and their associates. And if you question this descent, you’re woke, cancel-culture or a privileged lefty?
 

Chaeron

Ski-Hike-Blade-Bike-Kayak
Ski Pass
Jun 24, 2014
7,737
14,892
563
Dandenong Ranges
Given the need for ‘budget repair’ we’re going to see tax hikes after the next election for sure, not only a reversal of tax cuts. This is going to have to coincide with higher interest rates…. (less discretionary spending as a result - impacting recreational spending)

AND this will coincide with significant changes in our tourism and international services exports sector due to the changing relationship with China.

For a time there was a thought the Beijing Winter Olympics would drive increased Chinese snow tourism for Aussie resorts.

Pandemic, trade war, geopolitical tensions - not going to happen.

I wonder to what degree the tensions around China will impact the Winter Olympics?

Certainly it’s an issue for some. I know people who are no longer willing to travel to the mainland - not due to ideological or ethical concerns, though that is a factor for some, but primarily because they are concerned for their safety.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
669
445
163
Northern Beaches
I didn't say all of it! The uni is the size of a suburb.

Yeah I don't know Melbourne that well, but Sydney Uni's main campus is the size of two suburbs now (Camperdown and Darlington). The uni needs all the space they've got right now, and I believe they've also bought more land for future expansion.
 

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
16,988
11,919
813
Taungurung Country
Yes, it’s almost back to the French Revolution - execute anyone with an education - especially trendy latte, lefty, learned lads and ladies.

Fluoro jackets rule this country as long as they’re on un-unionised bods!

Why would one bother to study for another 4-5 years (much more for post-grad) to incur huge debts, rent overpriced dives, while watching your tradie mates buy their first or second dwelling? And get nothing but flak from the gutter press and various politicians- most of whom enjoyed a free or low-cost tertiary education.

We’re becoming (or are) a dumb country, run by dim-witted, backward-thinking, fossil-fuel lovers and cheered/ backed by a sycophantic Murdoch press and their associates. And if you question this descent, you’re woke, cancel-culture or a privileged lefty?
And to add salt to the wounds, all your knowledge and research is treated with disdain and contempt, particularly if you work in climate sciences and epidemiology :(
 

sastrugi

I Can't Explain
Ski Pass
Jul 5, 2001
16,988
11,919
813
Taungurung Country
Yeah I don't know Melbourne that well, but Sydney Uni's main campus is the size of two suburbs now (Camperdown and Darlington). The uni needs all the space they've got right now, and I believe they've also bought more land for future expansion.
Pretty sure Sydney has as much (if not more) land and campuses than Melbourne. Pretty sure there's enough for the next decade or so while internationals are at home.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
669
445
163
Northern Beaches
Not suggesting they 'hope' for a lucky run of good seasons, but definitely plan better for disasters for sure. I mean surely a lot of businesses must have factored in poor snow years / seasons already plus after such a good run of big seasons their accounts would be looking healthy, but a pandemic of this scale? I highly doubt it - it is 'unprecedented'

Covid has had a massive impact on the snow economy, even compared to the ongoing stresses of rising insurance costs (due to bushfires) and the threat of weaker winters due to climate change.

Our not-for-profit ski club was indeed doing reasonably well before covid happened. We were up to date with regular maintenance, and had a modest kitty lined up some basic improvements - projects that have been talked about since the early 90's.

Now, we're barely solvent. We've stopped all maintenance and shelved all projects, which isn't sustainable in the long term. Our income from next season (if next season isn't impacted again by covid, such as by another variant) is already curtailed by credits issued to members for this season. Even if covid were to disappear, it'd take us years to get back on our feet.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
669
445
163
Northern Beaches
Isn't this what the Governments (Particularly Libs) are doing already? They love privatising everything and selling off assets, land etc. I'm assuming this model will be used in the years to come to pay off a lot of covid debt.....

So if we need to sell our futures to cover our cost of living today, how will we cover our cost of living in the future when everything has been sold?
 

CarveMan

I Never Slice
Ski Pass
May 12, 2000
86,257
73,509
1,515
Les Hautes Montagnes
aussieskier.com
How is covid not "unprecedented"? Covid has had a massive impact on the snow economy, even compared to the ongoing stresses of rising insurance costs (due to bushfires) and the threat of weaker winters due to climate change.

Our not-for-profit ski club was indeed doing reasonably well before covid happened. We were up to date with regular maintenance, and had a modest kitty lined up some basic improvements - projects that have been talked about since the early 90's.

Now, we're barely solvent. We've stopped all maintenance and shelved all projects, which isn't sustainable in the long term. Our income from next season (if next season isn't impacted again by covid, such as by another variant) is already curtailed by credits issued to members for this season. Even if covid were to disappear, it'd take us years to get back on our feet.
Pre-covid, snowmaking and international travel largely insulated the snow retail industry from poor seasons, they really weren't that bad at all. It was more like they were the accepted baseline and a strong season was a bonus.

Edit: I should add that this is more in relation to city-based snow retail businesses. Resort based businesses are much more directly affected by snow conditions.
 

Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
So if we need to sell our futures to cover our cost of living today, how will we cover our cost of living in the future when everything has been sold?

Exactly - not a good model IMO and 'privatising' more & more appears to be the way these mob think.....but they seem to like to think for the 'now' and not the 'future'
 
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Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
Pre-covid, snowmaking and international travel largely insulated the snow retail industry from poor seasons, they really weren't that bad at all. It was more like they were the accepted baseline and a strong season was a bonus.

And now in addition to that, the cheap season pass model
 
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Hully

One of Us
May 6, 2004
1,744
1,831
363
57
Kiewa Valley
My observations of our local ski industry, Kiewa Valley/Falls Creek, is that it has been one of boom and bust. Early season snow from the opening and school holidays pre lockdown was really busy and fully 'subscribed'. People around seemed to be spending a lot on new equipment, clothing etc. Without northern hemisphere options past year and limited holiday opportunities it seemed disposable income was high. Victorian patron caps affected food and bev.
Obviously lockdown period was huge bust.
 

Dropbear

One of Us
Aug 4, 2010
669
445
163
Northern Beaches
We’re becoming (or are) a dumb country, run by dim-witted, backward-thinking, fossil-fuel lovers and cheered/ backed by a sycophantic Murdoch press and their associates. And if you question this descent, you’re woke, cancel-culture or a privileged lefty?

Great comments. The "clever country" is long gone.

Imagine if instead of a gas-led recovery, we were to have a research-led recovery?
 

Ultra2.0

One of Us
Ski Pass
Jan 27, 2020
567
1,077
263
we have been directly affected by university job losses, my partner worked for WSU. until they started asking her to teach without pay.

remember when Universities were taxpayer funded, and didnt need to make a profit.. and as for those huge profits now, they came from selling off their real estate
 
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Formally_FS04

Early Days
Sep 13, 2021
50
49
18
we have been directly effected by university job losses, my partner workd fro WSU. until they started askin her to teach without pay.

remember when Universities were taxpayer funded, and didnt need to make a profit.. and as for those huge profits, they came from selling real estate

That's pretty rough man. Working for no coin, how do these places expect you to survive? I guess jobkeeper would have helped for some of that time but still, my take on that stance would be that it would have been a 'test of the waters' and then if most were happy to comply, I'd expect that they will suffer a significant wage deduction once things returned back to a more 'normal' state.....
 

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
6,400
5,001
563
55
vic
Covid has had a massive impact on the snow economy, even compared to the ongoing stresses of rising insurance costs (due to bushfires) and the threat of weaker winters due to climate change.

Our not-for-profit ski club was indeed doing reasonably well before covid happened. We were up to date with regular maintenance, and had a modest kitty lined up some basic improvements - projects that have been talked about since the early 90's.

Now, we're barely solvent. We've stopped all maintenance and shelved all projects, which isn't sustainable in the long term. Our income from next season (if next season isn't impacted again by covid, such as by another variant) is already curtailed by credits issued to members for this season. Even if covid were to disappear, it'd take us years to get back on our feet.
This is extremely sad and worrisome. I worry for our club - we use is extensively in the green months too. If clubs like ours were to hand back their lease, many thousands of families would largely prevented from easy access to the snow. Most commercial on/near-mountain accommodation is well beyond our means and many club members.

The green season growth of recent years will also reverse if clubs fold. The mix of mountain clientele in summer will certainly change too. I believe a lot of commercial providers, prefer low occupancy and expensive to high occupancy and affordable. (Sorry I don’t have had data - certainly scanning Christmas/New Year & Easter, prices for newer apartments are scary).

I often feel the ski/mountain sector in Australia rely (market) too heavily on the upper-end of the income groups. It’s OK when times a good, but in a downturn, higher interest rates, frankly many will cut back on mountain visits. Where’s the industry plans to attract lower-income groups? Including rapidly-growing west of Melbourne and Sydney? Where will they stay as bed rates sky-rocket?

I’m not sure respective Vic/NSW government bodies are savy to the resort/area needs to survive or grow. Perhaps each resort/mountain needs to spend some decent money and rapidly revise their marketing and ‘growth’ (survival) strategies in a Covid-recovery environment? (Including mitigation for the next terrible snow (cover) season !)
 

CarveMan

I Never Slice
Ski Pass
May 12, 2000
86,257
73,509
1,515
Les Hautes Montagnes
aussieskier.com
This is extremely sad and worrisome. I worry for our club - we use is extensively in the green months too. If clubs like ours were to hand back their lease, many thousands of families would largely prevented from easy access to the snow. Most commercial on/near-mountain accommodation is well beyond our means and many club members.

The green season growth of recent years will also reverse if clubs fold. The mix of mountain clientele in summer will certainly change too. I believe a lot of commercial providers, prefer low occupancy and expensive to high occupancy and affordable. (Sorry I don’t have had data - certainly scanning Christmas/New Year & Easter, prices for newer apartments are scary).

I often feel the ski/mountain sector in Australia rely (market) too heavily on the upper-end of the income groups. It’s OK when times a good, but in a downturn, higher interest rates, frankly many will cut back on mountain visits. Where’s the industry plans to attract lower-income groups? Including rapidly-growing west of Melbourne and Sydney? Where will they stay as bed rates sky-rocket?

I’m not sure respective Vic/NSW government bodies are savy to the resort/area needs to survive or grow. Perhaps each resort/mountain needs to spend some decent money and rapidly revise their marketing and ‘growth’ (survival) strategies in a Covid-recovery environment? (Including mitigation for the next terrible snow (cover) season !)
Every time a club folds and apartments get built, the way I see it is that I lose a lot more potential customers than I gain.
 

Hully

One of Us
May 6, 2004
1,744
1,831
363
57
Kiewa Valley
Every time a club folds and apartments get built, the way I see it is that I lose a lot more potential customers than I gain.
I can understand that. Club lodge members/stayers are generally people for whom skiing is a sport/recreation.....save on accommodation, ski more frequently, own their own equipment. Generally apartment stayers tend to be ski holiday makers, the customers of the ski companies that package everything together.....accommodation, passes, rentals, lessons for a no fuss all organised ski week.
 

snowgum

A Local
Ski Pass
May 4, 1999
6,400
5,001
563
55
vic
I can understand that. Club lodge members/stayers are generally people for whom skiing is a sport/recreation.....save on accommodation, ski more frequently, own their own equipment. Generally apartment stayers tend to be ski holiday makers, the customers of the ski companies that package everything together.....accommodation, passes, rentals, lessons for a no fuss all organised ski week.
Possibly (likely) profits heading offshore? Not just due to Vail’s presence?
Other big players with on-snow property?
 

dawooduck

relaxed and comfortable
Ski Pass
Oct 26, 2002
72,591
65,094
1,525
Mountains
Yes, it’s almost back to the French Revolution - execute anyone with an education - especially trendy latte, lefty, learned lads and ladies.

Fluoro jackets rule this country as long as they’re on un-unionised bods!

Why would one bother to study for another 4-5 years (much more for post-grad) to incur huge debts, rent overpriced dives, while watching your tradie mates buy their first or second dwelling? And get nothing but flak from the gutter press and various politicians- most of whom enjoyed a free or low-cost tertiary education.

We’re becoming (or are) a dumb country, run by dim-witted, backward-thinking, fossil-fuel lovers and cheered/ backed by a sycophantic Murdoch press and their associates. And if you question this descent, you’re woke, cancel-culture or a privileged lefty?

Wow ...... welcome to the Stralya we love and know so well :(
 

telecrag

Old n' Crusty
Ski Pass
Oct 12, 2007
33,594
52,009
1,063
Most builders I know have multiple degrees, just sayin. In fact almost everyone I know has at least one. Maybe its been devalued by this, quantitive easing.

With ski clubs, has there been no relief on lease/bed tax?
 
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