South Face Road - trucks and trees and demonstrations.

[bawbawbel]

Be advised that the road will be closed for two months.
This is for "safety of logging operations" but is really to prevent demonstrations as the area above the road, including the only Victorian example of Wet Rainforest is torn to pieces.

 

[Seth]

Be advised that the road will be closed for two months.
This is for "safety of logging operations" but is really to prevent demonstrations as the area above the road, including the only Victorian example of Wet Rainforest is torn to pieces.

Disgraceful.

 

[bawbawbel]

Be advised that the road will be closed for two months.
This is for "safety of logging operations" but is really to prevent demonstrations as the area above the road, including the only Victorian example of Wet Rainforest is torn to pieces.

There is no longer a sign on the SFR denoting a preserved area of wet temperate rainforest above the road towards Mt Erica and below the present park boundary. Even then it was pitifully narrow, but no longer too steep for modern logging techniques.
What will be left for The Great Forest National Park (if it even gets created)?
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/a...-park-could-be-jobs-boon-20170210-guamtm.html

 

[Serenity]

I think there is some confusion here, it sounds like the the South Face Rd.

 

[Tanuki]

Be advised that the road will be closed for two months.
This is for "safety of logging operations" but is really to prevent demonstrations as the area above the road, including the only Victorian example of Wet Rainforest is torn to pieces.

Appalling. So not Cool Temperate Rainforest? The destruction around Baw Baw is unforgivable.

 

[bawbawbel]

I think there is some confusion here, it sounds like the the South Face Rd.

Fixed. The new rule regarding anytime editing and deleting should B0LD the edit date, though, to preserve our arguments?
Visual cues rule. Scott Adams is a very dangerous man for the American complacency.
Prepare to question your perceptions.

 

[bawbawbel]

Appalling. So not Cool Temperate Rainforest? The destruction around Baw Baw is unforgivable.

Yes, Cool. Concentrate, me!

 

[bawbawbel]

Heyfield sawmill remains open on the tourist route. Millers become guides with genuine Ozzie accents. Big screen vid and theatre sound replace machinery which is blunted for safety.

 

[currawong]

Still a bastard act but I'm pleased is not the grand ridge road

 

[Belly]

Be advised that the road will be closed for two months.
This is for "safety of logging operations" but is really to prevent demonstrations as the area above the road, including the only Victorian example of Wet Rainforest is torn to pieces.

So you've personally walked the planned coupes and done your own EIS?

 

[chriscross]

I'd be just as happy to hear from people who know what's going on. The logging in this area is unjustifiable. It must be stopped.

 

[bawbawbel]

So you've personally walked the planned coupes and done your own EIS?

No, please correct me where I am wrong:
Heyfield is set up to take 70 year old mountain ash, it would need a 40 million dollar refit to take small and plantation timber.
So, your children's children might see the coups as they are before logging (in the meantime the local microclimate produced will see Bawbaw's snow go to zero )

A weak compromise will probably be "You must cease operations when all the trees are gone"

http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/4442214/heyfield-mill-closure-put-on-hold/

 

[snowgum]

It's disgusting and pathetic - selling off our few remaining (unburnt) rainforest for next to nothing - and within 2 hrs drive of 5 million Melbournians (read tourists).

Ps: check the sattlelite pics of the Greater Baw Baw forest area or look down as you fly over and you'll see just badly we've stripped the forests for just a few hundred jobs. Smart and innovative state- crapola!

 

[Charlie]

The proposed closure has been cancelled
Apparently someone discovered a Pygmy Possum or other such rare critter in the coup, so the felling has been called off!

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

Bear reckon they seen those little critters at Weston's Hut too!!!

 

[Belly]

No, please correct me where I am wrong:
Heyfield is set up to take 70 year old mountain ash, it would need a 40 million dollar refit to take small and plantation timber.
So, your children's children might see the coups as they are before logging (in the meantime the local microclimate produced will see Bawbaw's snow go to zero )

A weak compromise will probably be "You must cease operations when all the trees are gone"

http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/4442214/heyfield-mill-closure-put-on-hold/

I haven't walked the coupes either but I used to work in the industry. And I used to walk my dogs in those forests. And I used to be familiar with the modelling that shows sustainably managed forests, including hardwoods, sequester more carbon than old growth. I also love tree's and forests and having protected areas for my new son to enjoy ionto the future. But like eveything it's a balance, and my past experience is it's an emotive industry where it's easy for the armchair's to take potshots whilst not being as informed as they could be. And remember, the mill doesn't log the forests, VicForests determine's those decisions.

 

[Tanuki]

Yeah and Vic forests has belatedly determined that sustainable yield has been far exceeded.

 

[Tanuki]

There's also a strong argument that vic forests has suffered from severe 'regulatory capture' to the detriment of stewardship over the broader communities natural resources

 

[Belly]

Source or opinion?

 

[bawbawbel]

It's disgusting and pathetic - selling off our few remaining (unburnt) rainforest for next to nothing - and within 2 hrs drive of 5 million Melbournians (read tourists).
Ps: check the sattlelite pics of the Greater Baw Baw forest area or look down as you fly over and you'll see just badly we've stripped the forests for just a few hundred jobs. Smart and innovative state- crapola!

"Internal Use Only" says the rejection of my application for data on the coupes.
I am also looking for stuff on the projected South Face Road extension all the way to Marysville. Not just for giggles and tourists.
But I read the stringent "protections" that apply.
Mainly to stop tourists seeing the destruction.
You will note the occasional dead tree among the debris. These are preserved "habitats" from where possums get splendid views as they starve. Most are located in the 50 meter road buffer zone, however.
The trees in the road buffer zone then get blown down across the road.
Big tree logging is not done yet. The rainforest dries out and burns. It then becomes a "bushfire salvage " coup.

 

[Belly]

Or we could get some Indonesian teak furniture or whatever, i.e. there is global narrative here
Don't disagree the offtake 'may' have to come down a notch, but I've been far to long removed from the numbers, notwithstanding decision making should generally align to asset cycles therefore things don't move too much when the rotations are 35 years plus (not necessarily buying the 70 years but I'm commercial, not a forester or miller ).

 

[bawbawbel]

Bear reckon they seen those little critters at Weston's Hut too!!!

They better all migrate to Craig's Hut with it's 200 meter protection zone. Might even get a feed from passing Alpine Trackers!

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

Bears are not across logging operations down there.
But where we turn off on Mulhauser Track from Snowy Log Rd we observe the reforestation at the coupe logged around about 2004.Though of poor quality we took pic in 2006(pretty sure camera display was correct) and the tree height now is around say 30feet..densely stocked regrowth ...very impressive ...as for current species composition we could not enlighten forum.So ten years on it looks pretty good.This is not intended as a defence of logging ops done else where but this area was a relatively small clear felling coupe..the new one up the Mulhauser Jeep Track does look like a bomb site but hopefully will be regenerated lik the one on the lower side of the roadway.All clear felling coupes are rather confronting but remember that forests are very dynamic environments and trees fall continually ..in a very haphazard manner,so logs pile up all over the shop while other trees get hung up on each other...again this is not meant to be a defence of all hardwood logging operations.Also the regeneration around a Camp Mulhauser Saddle which apparently was hand planted has beautiful tall and straight Alpine Ash which are a magnificent stand of hardwood.Bears hoping that on reaching maturity this little stand will be preserved and left unlogged because it is of more value left alone for tourist and camping
values...These trees already are up to approx ninety foot in height.Absolutely stunning regrowth.One would have to hope that sustainability is paramount in logging considerations and that all logging coupe protocols are being followed.

 

[Tanuki]

Bears are not across logging operations down there.
But where we turn off on Mulhauser Track from Snowy Log Rd we observe the reforestation at the coupe logged around about 2004.Though of poor quality we took pic in 2006(pretty sure camera display was correct) and the tree height now is around say 30feet..densely stocked regrowth ...very impressive ...as for current species composition we could not enlighten forum.So ten years on it looks pretty good.This is not intended as a defence of logging ops done else where but this area was a relatively small clear felling coupe..the new one up the Mulhauser Jeep Track does look like a bomb site but hopefully will be regenerated lik the one on the lower side of the roadway.

The major problem with commercial logging in Victoria's native forests is that it's a conversion from a diverse, multi canopy forest ecosystem to a monoculture defacto plantation

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

The major problem with commercial logging in Victoria's native forests is that it's a conversion from a diverse, multi canopy forest ecosystem to a monoculture defacto plantation

I don't think a monoculture is the desired goal of clearing felling in alpine ash stands .Its obviously not a successful outcome in regeneration activities should this be the result.
I would rather have sustained hardwood logging than an extension of soft wood plantations.I think u need to have both to supply the resource needed by the building industry.
I donot have a love of pine plantations cos they are a definite monoculture and they bore me...Most of the commercial plantations may be interesting for those of the Nthn Hemisphere but not so for most of us locals.I cannot see myself camping in a pine plantation.

 

[bawbawbel]

I'd be just as happy to hear from people who know what's going on. The logging in this area is unjustifiable. It must be stopped.

"Internal Use Only" says the rejection of my application for data on the coupes.

The discovered usage of hardwood for paper production is the death knell for our snow mountains. I noted that BawBaw got half as much snow as Lake Mountain for some years.
But it is even again now (at the reduced level) due to monster coupe clearing on the way to LM.
First thing is to separate the doomed little trees from the endangered big trees, IMHO.
Up to 24 March, Chris, you can theoretically examine proposed changes to "small scale harvesting operations" in Victoria and make submissions. But good luck with that, like last time, THE LINKS ADVERTISED DO NOT WORK!
http://www.vicforests.com.au/proposed-timber-utilization-plan and
http://www.vicforests.com.au/timber-utilization-plan-community-feedback-form

They hope that nobody is keen enough to look further. Having a vested interest might help.....

 

[bawbawbel]

Trees already are up to approx ninety foot in height.Absolutely stunning regrowth.One would have to hope that sustainability is paramount in logging considerations and that all logging coupe protocols are being followed.

By their works you will know them. "The government is looking after this" har har. Remember when "Experimental Frog Coupe Logging" was proposed ? The idea was to afterwards make a scientific survey and see if the frog had REALLY gone.
The situation looks now be infinitely worse.
We now face a Trump style reality where NOBODY is responsible.
The public think that a few facebook tweets will keep things under control.
You will possibly note that the useless Vicforest's map does not even include the Southern BawBaw coupes !!!
"Oops! Lost in the DEPI transfer confusion"
There IS a 2012 decision included on their site to allow clearfelling around the 350 year old Ada Tree.
It will happen after the outrage has time to dissipate, mate.... 1939 regrowth is the prize. .

 

[Charlie]

F**k me
Even I would chain myself to a dozer if they went near the Ada Tree
That entire valley is magnificent

 

[bawbawbel]

F**k me
Even I would chain myself to a dozer if they went near the Ada Tree
That entire valley is magnificent

I think it is safe. It is small, after all.
Selective logging of Vancouver Island rainforest is almost complete. Half the size of Tasmania, it was left to the loggers to self regulate 80 years ago. They are still taking out thousand year old red cedars right now. Indian protesters block the last logging roads and are removed pretty quickly by heavies. (see sbs on demand).
But we must ask why only that one 2012 Ada permit is fully featured on the Vicforests website.
No doubt as a red herring to keep protesters busy and congratulating themselves while the REAL logging goes on within other large declared "safety" zones.

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

The discovered usage of hardwood for paper production is the death knell for our snow mountains. I noted that BawBaw got half as much snow as Lake Mountain for some years.
But it is even again now (at the reduced level) due to monster coupe clearing on the way to LM.
First thing is to separate the doomed little trees from the endangered big trees, IMHO.
Up to 24 March, Chris, you can theoretically examine proposed changes to "small scale harvesting operations" in Victoria and make submissions. But good luck with that, like last time, THE LINKS ADVERTISED DO NOT WORK!
http://www.vicforests.com.au/proposed-timber-utilization-plan and
http://www.vicforests.com.au/timber-utilization-plan-community-feedback-form

They hope that nobody is keen enough to look further. Having a vested interest might help.....

The logs for paper production ?where are they carted and who chips them and then where do the chips go for paper manufacture.Do the chips go overseas for paper production and if so to what country.Then the paper produced where does that go..who uses and buys this product.

 

[Tanuki]

The logs for paper production ?where are they carted and who chips them and then where do the chips go for paper manufacture.Do the chips go overseas for paper production and if so to what country.Then the paper produced where does that go..who uses and buys this product.

Reflex

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

So is reflex the only supplier of paper that is derived from chips coming from old growth logs from our native forests?Do they use recycled paper also.What percentage do they use in their papers.

 

[Tanuki]

So is reflex the only supplier of paper that is derived from chips coming from old growth logs from our native forests?Do they use recycled paper also.What percentage do they use in their papers.

No, sometimes, not much

 

[bawbawbel]

So is reflex the only supplier of paper that is derived from chips coming from old growth logs from our native forests?Do they use recycled paper also.What percentage do they use in their papers.

Maryvale paper mill in the Latrobe Valley is now owned by Japanese interests (from 2009). Maybe our gov earn ment got caught with a bad deal regarding supply? I dunno.. But it is a half billion dollar a year enterprise (600,000 tons of paper p.a). A new recycling plant there takes 80,000 tons of waste paper p.a..
I am sure that the mill would prefer plantation trees. But Portland claims to be the largest exporter of plantation blue gum chips in the world, just divert some and everybod should be happy?

But from Wikipedia:
" Australian Paper has a contract with the Victorian Government for the period 1996-2030 of buying wood at a 1996 fixed price on the logs. This includes mountain ash timber, deemed by scientists to be of high conservation value.[8] In August 2011 Australian Paper withdrew from Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) certification, in order to be able to use wood from old-growth forest logging by VicForests, but remained under the certification of the Australian Forestry Standard. Their previous auditor SmartWood was suspended in September 2011 as result of an FSC internal audit.[9] Later the company announced that its FSC certification has been retained for all products except Reflex paper.[10] As of 2013, the Reflex 100% recycled paper is FSC certified.[11]"

 

[Belly]

Haulage to Portland would kill the margins.
Not the whole tree/log to Aus Paper, it's kind of like a cow, the prime cuts go to the saw mill and cost more $, the offcuts go to AP

 

[Tanuki]

Haulage to Portland would kill the margins.
Not the whole tree/log to Aus Paper, it's kind of like a cow, the prime cuts go to the saw mill and cost more $, the offcuts go to AP

Well the problem is that in East Gippsland and Gippsland whole, first class saw logs have been and are being chipped.

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

Hey the "A Team" sounds like a group of funsters!

U gotta wonder about big business sometimes.

One can only wonder what operatives Hotham and Falls Ck have for monitoring subversion to its circus proposals of HFAC in conjunction with NE Tourism and Commercial Interests.
Team Bears wonder what they may be up to?Perhaps bears better split up
And leave some spy cams out in the West Kiewa to monitor their clandestine activities.

 

[bawbawbel]

It is either funny or frightening to hear all the pollies suddenly trying to sound like Trump.
Maybe "You wanna low level road into Hotham? Make some deals! Logging get whatever they want above and below the road, Packer pays something in return for a casino licence, I get any gold they find on the route. Done!"

 

[bawbawbel]

Similar style note to VicForests. "You don't wanna make us mad! Put up a 2017 update of this with complete legends within a week and we might forgive your unbelievably insolent treatment of the public"

 

[bawbawbel]

As full member of the 5 ize spy organization, Australia gets to hide Google Earth areas which are classified or embarrassing.
This is the latest view of the above area.

 

[chriscross]

Not sure where some people's information is coming from re: logging. I stopped and spoke with a log truck driver on Thompson Valley road yesterday (returning from a walk out of St Gwinear). Old growth logs from Yarra Track were definitely going to the mill for chipping to become paper. IMO it's an appalling waste of a valuable resource, especially when the mill which processes hardwood claims it cannot get adequate supply. Have to wonder who is "managing" the industry.

 

[bawbawbel]

Not sure where some people's information is coming from re: logging. I stopped and spoke with a log truck driver on Thompson Valley road yesterday (returning from a walk out of St Gwinear). Old growth logs from Yarra Track were definitely going to the mill for chipping to become paper. IMO it's an appalling waste of a valuable resource, especially when the mill which processes hardwood claims it cannot get adequate supply. Have to wonder who is "managing" the industry.

Woodchipping for Kleenex was banned from the Otways long ago.
VicForests have got to hold out with the status quo until 2030. No way, Hosea!
They wanted to get into the water catchment areas. Looks like that is a goer.
Facts:
Greenvale is the biggest user of natural gas in Victoria.
They claim efficiency in that half their energy comes from "natural resources" Burn those bargain priced trees, baby!
Computer paper is unbelievably cheap, ban import completely and nobody would complain?
Or at least get govt to use recycled paper, as they promised.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/inve...promise-new-oz-jobs-lost-20151001-gjzcg8.html
VicForests "will respond to all correspondence received". when. I wonder....
GPO Box 191
Melbourne 3001

 

[bawbawbel]

F**k me
Even I would chain myself to a dozer if they went near the Ada Tree
That entire valley is magnificent

Off you go. Good Luck.
http://mountainviews.mailcommunity.com.au/mail/2017-02-13/blue-vein-coupe-halted/

 

[Charlie]

I just checked on a map
There appears to be a reasonable buffer between the coupe and the Ada Tree
I wouldn't worry so much about the possum, it's probably a bit sus that possums have been seen there by 3rd parties
My concern it the Ada tree reserve
It could be argued that logging in the vicinity of the tree could help protect from bushfires!
Now I'll sit and wait for the rage!

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

Yep sometimes better to rake and burn debri around Iconic old growth monoliths to keep them safe.Once fire gets into those hollow bases their doomed.

 

[bawbawbel]

That entire valley is magnificent

Nice, indeed. So sad that the end of such nice places is nigh.
"Save The Tree" is meaningless to me. For all I care it can fall down tomorrow in it's 40 meter exclusion zone and the tourists can walk up and down it's length. Aboriginal art from China might be nailed onto it at strategic places.

 

[bawbawbel]

Vic beancounters now have a choice:
Find 40 million to upgrade Heyfield, or let VicForests have "a little bit" of National park for zero cost.
Then "everybody" should be happy.
Greenvale can expand it's newfound goldmine of selling "green" electricity, water catchments can be fenced off again, saving the cost of keeping the Melbourne Desalination Plant operating (which is needing a complete refit), and areas of Cool Temperate Rainforest (which DOES NOT rely on hot burns, by the way) can be identified with suitable exclusion zones and protected FOREVER.

 

[bawbawbel]

http://www.eastgippsland.net.au/files/documents/Vic-logging-plans-2016.pdf

 

[bawbawbel]

In Finland 14% of their electrical power comes from biomass. Sounds good, you say, it is the only form of renewable energy which can be used for baseload.
But when you look closer you see that it is coming from converted paper mills that can no longer compete with imported product, and Australia is keen to follow their lead.
Tree farms yes, but not if they are produced from our old growth forests . Crazy, crazy ,crazy.

 

[Ubiquitous Steve]

Where are things up to with Vic Govt. Vic Forests and the Heyfield Mill?

Have their recent emergency discussions achieved a solutions?
And what is the impact of that solution on both Heyfields employment and on native forest :has Vic Forest increased their allocation of timber to the Heyfield Mill.
Also research into the. uptake of CO2 from Eucalypts shows it does not increase with the increased CO2 concentrations associated with GW which is not factored into current predictions of GW.It appears that Eucalytps in our poor nutrient deficient soils will not increase their uptake of CO2 :it occurs at a fixed rate.This may cause alarm for the alarmists?