South Face Road - trucks and trees and demonstrations.
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Sure looks like this is causing more grief than a few iron plaques scattered in the high country.
Seems I have insufficient privileges..to contribute elsewhere....
Keep those reports coming Bawbawbel they are alerting us to problems....to major significant misuse issues.....your discussions should be getting more exposure in this forum than some of the silly things being discussed elsewhere...
I wrote and sent this letter and got zero replies from the State Govt. on this issue.
"
To
The Hon Lily D'Ambrosio,
Minister for Energy, Environment and Climate Change
Level 17, 8 Nicholson Street, East Melbourne, VIC 3002
Phone (03) 9637 9504
Fax (03) 9637 7580
lily.d'ambrosio@parliament.vic.gov.au
Sender :
Mr. T. On Snow shoes
name and address supplied.
5.3.17
REGARDING: The logging of Old Growth Mountain Ash forests in Victoria.
Dear Minister
I am deeply concerned about The logging of Old Growth Mountain Ash forests in Victoria.
On February 8th 2017 I went and visited the Rubicon state forest. It is being clear felled and logged at an alarming rate and the Royston range in particular is being turned into a wasteland denuded of vegetation.
I was shocked and saddened by what I saw. The sight of numerous logging trucks was unsettling and the sounds of chainsaws echoed throughout what should be an unspoiled and peaceful place.
The Old growth Mountain ash forests of Victoria and in particular of the central highlands need to be protected by the creation of a Great National park listing.
These beautiful old eco systems cannot be allowed to be clear felled until there is nothing left.
Melbourne’s water supply in part is derived from these areas. Removal of large tracts of old growth forests in what is Australia’s most heavily deforested state ( Victoria) cannot have a positive effect on the water supply or habitats for natural and endangered flora and fauna.
The state faunal emblem , an endangered species ,the Lead beater’s possum inhabits these areas but not for long it would seem.
The climate will also suffer as necessary areas of old growth forest capture pollution , carbon dioxide in particular and convert it into oxygen. The result will be that fewer dense old growth forests that remain intact then the hotter and drier these areas will become.
The Mountain Ash tree is the tallest flowering plant on Earth. They are a natural wonder.
Once these forests are logged they do not grown back the same way and they take over 300 years to return to something that is more or less what was there before they were logged. The bush quickly becomes scrubbier and more prone to fire.
Sadly the planet does not have another 300 years for today’s people in power to see that all this destruction must stop if we are all to survive at all.
Melbourne is growing and urban density and urban sprawl is increasing. Having beautiful old growth mountain ash forests close to Melbourne can only be a positive thing for all people who need to retreat to somewhere natural, serene and peaceful and interact with nature for maintaining good mental and physical health.
This ties into the eco-tourism potential in the mountain ash forests that are close to the North East of Melbourne that is being destroyed. It seems to me that as long as the trees along the roadside of the Black spur and Dom Dom saddle scenic drive remain intact , then the rest can be all chopped down.
My friend and I walked along the old Rubicon aqua duct and tramway. This sort of easy and scenic forest walk could easily be part of a greater tourist plan to preserve the old growth mountain ash forests for low environmental impact recreation. Our day with nature left us feeling both revived and incensed about the destruction of the old growth forests in the area that spans from Healsville to Lake Eildon.
Later I looked into this matter and found that the State Government of Victoria is both the conservation legislator and is a financial backer of the firm known as “Vic Logging”.
What is more the old growth logs are being sent to Japan to make paper.
Furthermore the Japanese own a large share of the company that is logging the old growth mountain ash forests of Victoria and particular in the Rubicon state forest .
This is a clear conflict of interest when examining the state government of Victoria’s approach to preserving our living treasures of the natural world.
In effect it is like putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank.
This is a travesty. This is sickening. This is wrong! .
I am telling people to see the Rubicon state forest or what is left of it now , before it is all gone. Once it is clear felled then it will be gone for good since you and I will not live 300 years to see it grow back and nor will our planet!.
This is also aboriginal land which is the home of many traditions and stories of importance to the indigenous Australians of the area . Their ancestral home is being turned into a wasteland just add insult to over 200 years of injury and dispossession .
I urge you as minister not give into bellicose and blinkered unions who jump up and down on the spot about job losses in 19th century environmentally exploitative industries that clear fell old growth mountain ash forests. These people could all potentially retrain and get a job in eco tourist areas if there is any forest left for them to make the vocational transition from logging and saw milling old growth forests into a sustainable range of employment possibilities.
The only ethical and environmentally sustainable decision any sane person could make regarding this matter is to include and gazette all remaining old growth mountain ash forests of Victoria into new national parks, national Parks that will be properly funded so that these living treasures can be preserved for posterity.
Yours Faithfully
Mr. T . on Snow shoes."
You people can cut and paste this letter into an e mail and send it to the State minister for destruction of our old growth forests .It won't take long and then you too can be ignored by somebody who answers to vested interests rather than concerned citizens.
I read your letter with interest....a passionate plea..
Now though I don't support the transition of this area into a National Park I do have reservations like yourself into areas of the hardwood logging regime.
I like wise acknowledge that several factors other than Saw Log Volume need to be given a greater priority.
Recreational use from these existing stands of old growth can be potentially a good source of jobs in future years.
i would acknowledge that the unions seem to be having a greater ability to place jobs ahead of fauna,flora,water catchment values and future recreational usage .
The green house gas emissions and global warming are also positions that need to be taken into account in future land use.
Asthetically the time frame to produce the diversity shown in old growth forests is long.These areas need to be conserved so we don't lose them all.
Well done MtT.
I am sure there are some within the DSE and also Vic Forests that are also concerned with some schemes and allocations for timber harvesting .Not only in regard to sustainable yield but in relation to the other important values that our forests provide.These issues are of far more importance than turning up the odd memorial plaque.These isssues should involve more of the forums time and energy.
I hear you Bel, With the next election only a ~16 months away and seemingly in the balance its time to rattle a few cages & write to a few ministers, premiers and mps - esp if its a marginal seat.
Was getting a bit despondent with the (over) logging issues - esp fauna habitat but feeling energised / anger?? Over the dead- koala image. It maybe just one anmal - & not rare in Vic but I understand not overly common in the alps/foothills.
To me this is a symbol - calling to do something. To change our logging practices and make the activity truly sustainable. If it means winding back in the obvious hotspots, then so be it. Likwise - employ more botanists on site! And swap fom pulp logging/ chipping to whole logs etc...
Time for me to sit down & write this week - evn if it means less looking at snow cams or predictions!
...is there anybody here with a contact at ABC ( Four Corners)?
Hi
I got no reply after months of silence ..... so I have sent it again to that useless Tory hack in the Labourals.
"
To
The Hon Lily D'Ambrosio,
Minister for Energy, Environment and Climate Change
Level 17, 8 Nicholson Street, East Melbourne, VIC 3002
Phone (03) 9637 9504
Fax (03) 9637 7580
lily.d'ambrosio@parliament.vic.gov.au
Sender :
Mr. T.
26.6.17
REGARDING: The logging of Old Growth Mountain Ash forests in Victoria.
Dear Minister
I am deeply concerned about The logging of Old Growth Mountain Ash forests in Victoria.
On February 8th 2017 I went and visited the Rubicon state forest. It is being clear felled and logged at an alarming rate and the Royston range in particular is being turned into a wasteland denuded of vegetation.
I was shocked and saddened by what I saw. The sight of numerous logging trucks was unsettling and the sounds of chainsaws echoed throughout what should be an unspoiled and peaceful place.
The Old growth Mountain ash forests of Victoria and in particular of the central highlands need to be protected by the creation of a Great National park listing.
These beautiful old eco systems cannot be allowed to be clear felled until there is nothing left.
Melbourne’s water supply in part is derived from these areas. Removal of large tracts of old growth forests in what is Australia’s most heavily deforested state ( Victoria) cannot have a positive effect on the water supply or habitats for natural and endangered flora and fauna.
The state faunal emblem , an endangered species ,the Lead beater’s possum inhabits these areas but not for long it would seem.
The climate will also suffer as necessary areas of old growth forest capture pollution , carbon dioxide in particular and convert it into oxygen. The result will be that fewer dense old growth forests that remain intact then the hotter and drier these areas will become.
The Mountain Ash tree is the tallest flowering plant on Earth. They are a natural wonder.
Once these forests are logged they do not grown back the same way and they take over 300 years to return to something that is more or less what was there before they were logged. The bush quickly becomes scrubbier and more prone to fire.
Sadly the planet does not have another 300 years for today’s people in power to see that all this destruction must stop if we are all to survive at all.
Melbourne is growing and urban density and urban sprawl is increasing. Having beautiful old growth mountain ash forests close to Melbourne can only be a positive thing for all people who need to retreat to somewhere natural, serene and peaceful and interact with nature for maintaining good mental and physical health.
This ties into the eco-tourism potential in the mountain ash forests that are close to the North East of Melbourne that is being destroyed. It seems to me that as long as the trees along the roadside of the Black spur and Dom Dom saddle scenic drive remain intact , then the rest can be all chopped down.
My friend and I walked along the old Rubicon aqua duct and tramway. This sort of easy and scenic forest walk could easily be part of a greater tourist plan to preserve the old growth mountain ash forests for low environmental impact recreation. Our day with nature left us feeling both revived and incensed about the destruction of the old growth forests in the area that spans from Healsville to Lake Eildon.
Later I looked into this matter and found that the State Government of Victoria is both the conservation legislator and is a financial backer of the firm known as “Vic Logging”.
What is more the old growth logs are being sent to Japan to make paper.
Furthermore the Japanese own a large share of the company that is logging the old growth mountain ash forests of Victoria and particular in the Rubicon state forest .
This is a clear conflict of interest when examining the state government of Victoria’s approach to preserving our living treasures of the natural world.
In effect it is like putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank.
This is a travesty. This is sickening. This is wrong! .
I am telling people to see the Rubicon state forest or what is left of it now , before it is all gone. Once it is clear felled then it will be gone for good since you and I will not live 300 years to see it grow back and nor will our planet!.
This is also aboriginal land which is the home of many traditions and stories of importance to the indigenous Australians of the area . Their ancestral home is being turned into a wasteland just add to insult to over 200 years of injury and dispossession .
I urge you as minister not give into bellicose and blinkered unions who jump up and down on the spot about job losses in out dated 19th century environmentally exploitative industries that clear fell old growth mountain ash forests. These people could all potentially retrain and get a job in eco tourist areas if there is any forest left for them to make the vocational transition from logging and saw milling old growth forests into a sustainable range of employment possibilities.
The only ethical and environmentally sustainable decision any sane person could make regarding this matter is to include and gazette all remaining old growth mountain ash forests of Victoria into new national parks, national Parks that will be properly funded so that these living treasures can be preserved for posterity.
I am not alone in my concerns and we the people know there are no jobs on a dead planet and we vote!
I demand a reply to this letter as soon as possible.
Yours Faithfully
Mr. T. on Snow shoes
--
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Write your letter by email
to The tory Labourals hack in charge of logging ....
lily.d'ambrosio@parliament.vic.gov.au
Haven't read the whole thread, but there's still OG rainforest in this area, as well as out of Warburton. (or are you claiming that as BB territory?)
Tecks, I think the general view us that OGF is steadily diminishing in many areas of the Cent Highlands - both the NW & SE side of the divide.
It most certainly is. Sorry, I was responding to the comment in the OP that said "only Victorian example of Wet Rainforest".
Hey thats fair enough. There's some good maps of rainforest on line From DELWP. Just as a BTW.
Maps of Rainforest, Pictures of Possums. Thanks for the memory.
Protected only by hundred meter buffer zones, eventually.
Step right up, ladies and gentlemen, you might see see live possums in our ten acre fully protected rainforest.
Attachments
Hi peeps. I'm a lifelong LV resident, Baw Baw was where I grew up skiing starting back in the 70s on the old rope tow. I've been a member of Friends of Baw Baw NP in the past & have sadly seen the rape of the recovering ash forests of the South face area after the South Face (Logging) Road was put in. This road was put in without proper soil testing & engineering done & during it's construction caused several silt flows to flow into the Tyers River & down into Moondarra dam. There was a belated hydrological study done on the Moondarra catchment by Prof. Tim Ealey who showed that since it takes up to 150 years for water yield to return to normal after a Mountain Ash forest is burnt or removed, this whole upper catchment was a long way from recovery since the 1939 Black Friday fires. Up to 80% of flows into Moondarra dam come from this upper catchment.
A lot of this timber is taken for chipping to Maryvale paper mill. This mill is also one of the biggest users of Moondarra water. If I can find the report I shall upload it for anyone interested. Timber mill owners & the paper plant don't seem to care about the long term as long as they can get cheap timber to make huge profits from. Not only have we lost these somewhat young ash forests, we've lost the biodiversity & more valuable micro climate that gave us decent winter snows & stream flows.Every time I visit Baw Baw I imagine how it would be now if there had been an altitude cap on logging.
The National Park boundaries were created after Logging agreed that it was not worth while working in that area.
The report would be interesting, if only to highlight how it was ignored.
It will be Teckel's turn to show concurn when the South Face Road is extended to Marysville.
VicForests even recently avoided committing to the "cut one, plant one" rule. That should have been headlines.
What about the Thompson Dam catchment? Too big to pollute? Not many years ago it ran dry.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/dam-water-levels-dwindling-to-historic-low-20090Where are we up too?
There was a call to protect the 100,000 hectare of ash forests due to be logged.
"100,000 hectares sounds like a lot but is actually only an area 32km square. It is about 0.4% of the area of Victoria. Just do it."
That would leave 400,000 hectare ( 64 km square ) to go before there is NOTHING left at all.
Hmm.. Buying Heyfield might not result in a profit for the government in a few years from now.
And I don't think that the possum will last 40 years.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...atorium-logging-endangered-leadbeaters-possum
I got a reply from the Ministry of truth (sic) regarding my letter and it was full of the usual wankery and BS you would expect. Let 's face it. We as a species are doomed and chopping down ancient forests is just part of the squillion reasons why we are doomed.
It's amazing how rosy the world looks from behind a city desk.
Someone needs to get of the office buttocks and go and see how the code of practice is being ignored.
A short trip into the Rubicon region is all that is needed.
The widespread destruction of the Rubicon state forest is horrific.Don't remind me of it. I was shocked by it.
That's what the Govt count on - so very few people bother to leave the city to visit these sites. And let's face it most folks are busy with work, kids and survival...
To make things more certain, the Govt allows the operators to lock gates around many of the active coupes - and right-wingers have the audacity to accuse 'greens' of wanting to lock up the forests!
Such destruction would never be allowed in the city or suburbs - half of Melbourne would be marching on Spring St.
To increase awareness of logging and hence pressure on Govt, we need Key stakeholders to do more things like the recent helicopter flyovers (was it Wilderness Society?), use of drones, etc...
Then this footage needs widespread exposure. Prime time TV would be good but expensive, so the web and still shots in the major papers would be the go. Especially in the lead up to the next state election.
I get out into the bush a fair bit...... Well I admit , I go out into the Forests a lot !!! . Most people I talk to have never heard of Mt. Bogong for example and very many don't know where Moe is let alone Mt. Baw Baw. They could not show you on a map where these places might be located and they have no idea what is there that might be of any interest to them. The great unwashed are an indoor suburban tribe."Uncle, what were forests like?". I can hear it being asked by my nephews when I am 80 .( I 'm aged 47 now ).Uncle: " You could walk for a day and not come to their end. But greedy governments continued to allocate logging at five times the regrowth rate, and even bought timber mills themselves. Protesters were made to feel like criminals."
http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/4922967/logging-fears-on-meeting-agenda/
http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/4928220/heyfield-mill-sale-finalised/
Went past on Wednesday. Ugly business- can't believe how close this destruction is to the "State Park"!All around the world, governments are being called to account.
Logging must continue but this should be our line in the sand:
1. Full Transparency. No more ducking responsibility by department reorganization, no more spins, allowing us tiny wins to shut us up. Independent monitoring.
2. Cut a tree, plant and guarantee a tree. Back to the golden rule.
3. Sustainability. It's easy: If the average age of lumber is 40 years, the TOTAL yearly non plantation Mountain Ash allocation must be less than one 40th of the area of the previously logged coupes.Not a win, a delay .
Agreed to leave any trees larger than 2 and a half meters in diameter. Must be bigger than they can handle...
Enough is too much, even the gagging of publicity will no longer work soon..
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/vic...-to-log-untouched-forest-20171101-gzcjtl.html
I signed it - ski mates too!
...when you think - if we save Kuark, in a hundred years our grandkids & their kids will be able to walk /visit and say our forebears had the sense to save this gem.
If Vicforests log it, it will be just another hybrid regrowth forest ready to be logged every, what 40-50 years. Major wildlife vanished.
And the so called wealth & riches from this plunder will be long gone! Lasting what? A few months at best! Not much of a deal for forest thousands of years old!
I just have to go bush every fortnight. It keeps me sane in an insane world. It interesting to see how many overgrown bench cut former logging tracks can be found in upper King, Howqua and Jamieson river catchment areas of the Alpine N.P..The loggers gave those areas a good going over before they were protected by law from further deforestation.I note the pitiful projected yearly reduction in logging allocation, timed to coincide with zero old growth forest.
I note the Victorian Government divide and destroy tactics, one small community at a time, since they bought into Heyfield and are now pretending that 80 year old mountain ash coups are all going into fine furniture.
I contemplate with horror how the remaining 100 meter buffer zones are being claimed to be aesthetic protection of the environment.
" We stand with Noojee as another town and community under attack from VicForests, Mirboo North. Bring on the state election and the ALP will hear and see our anger."
Social media blanket coverage is probably the only hope?
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/...ound-tiny-gippsland-town-20180420-p4zapc.html
If Mt. Baw Baw is going to get any snow in the future then all the forests in the vicinity of the resort skiing areas need to be preserved or the whole area will become hotter , scrubbier and drier.
The same can be said about water catchments in the area which rely on snow melt and rainfall from rainforests and snow gum areas to remain viable for filling up dams and reservoirs .
I think people of my age (48 ) are the last generation to see a natural world that is not totally stuffed and being rapidly killed off faster than it can regenerate.
I know what i would like to do to Dan The Man , sadly i would be in jail !! Yes bring on the election ....And so it goes. State control is more ravenous than private. Unaccountable.
I thought it odd that they were now committed to "small" coupes.
Why? Well, if a single tree was removed after 1920, the lot can be felled !
http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/story/5630399/baw-baw-tree-sit-delays-logging/
I an nit defending Andrews or his mobs lack of action re ending logging in old growth forest.
But the aren’t the other mob er, worse?
I’m pretty sure that under Naptime, the libs threatened to remove NP status from a number of nth Vic Box Irronbark areas and allow ‘linited’ logging in selected NPs.
I mean its the bad or the attrocious!
Yes?Greens ? We not got Scott Ludlam anymore. Sent back where he come from by deep state planners or short sighted schemers who seem to have us by the balls..
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...aigners-fights-to-save-the-south-west-forests
I’m a green supporter but they seem to need a few seats upper & lower to make s difference.
A hung P come Nov. would be interesting.
Fwiw: Under Bracks & Brumby Labor had the guts to go ‘cold turkey’ re logging in Otways
and create the Otways NP.
But despite some social policy gains in Vic under Andrews’ Govt, they’ve been v dissapinting on the logging front generally and the GFNP ussue in particular.
I can only hope the looming election helps them decide!!
If you are worried about levels of CO2 in the atmosphere, it is important to know that the best trees for absorbing CO2 are young, vigorously growing trees. As a tree ages its ability to absorb CO2 reduces and eventually stops altogether. So, if an area is logged and replanted, then it may actually be better than letting the trees grow old.
Howdy ‘other Oldie’,
I certainly do care. But our fauna are not so able to recover from logging. VicForrsts & loggers know this as they step over carcasses.
(Yes emotive but we’re talking survival for the last thousands of some species that have lived for perhaps millions of years. Then wiped from planet in > 200 years. That sits poorly for me - esp as I try to teach my 9 year old how we should respect nature and people.
In addition re cyclical logging:
- young trees also absorb water at a much higher rate than old growth, so we reduce our water yield when its already really dry in our catchments.
I also note major burning of the plentiful post logging waste. Thats heaps of CO2. And since the majority of our timber is pulped (not fine furniture or housing frames), I figure it will leach CO2 eventually from waterever paper product it ends up. (Cant be recycled forever).
See who wins the fight for the last few % of unburnt old growth left??"Protecting and restoring forests would achieve 18% of the emissions mitigation needed by 2030 to avoid irreversible climate change, a group of 40 scientists said last month."
"From 2020 Bunnings and Officeworks will only sell products certified by FSC (Forests Stewardship Council)."
Nice article in local paper, but then it is missing from the archives. Why ?
"VicForests timber which includes Gippsland products such as Reflex copy paper (real cheap !) is certified only through the "Responsible Wood Australian Forestry Standard."
Is this a big deal ?
Yes.
The difference is in restoration after logging.
We will eventually be left with years of cumulative coups (3000 hectares per year) as the monster winds down, which will be nothing but sun baked devastation, never to recover.
The barbarians:
Boycott of Bunnings advocated by Dalidakis (State minister )
Colbeck (Federal assistant minister )
What to do with that crew ?
He's correct though!A very skillful and well thought out reply Mr. Tee.
The last ultimatum by Bunnings etc was in 2014. "Certification by 2017, or else !"
No doubt the next one will be "Certification by 2023, or else !"
And this is for the lowest level possible, "Forest Stewardship Initiative". Mainly just agreeing to do stuff.
Full FSC as adopted worldwide bans logging old growth forest and bans clearfelling (VicForests "initiative" of leaving one big, useless, dead tree in the middle of a coup is apparently not sufficient).
We need an ultimatum from the public. Cancel the pulp supply guarantee and face the music, if necessary.Doesn't it make us all so proud that 'we' can reduce millions of years of faunal and floral evolution in our forests in just a few days or weeks (per coup).
And interesting that while some logging advocates are skeptical about anthropogenic warming (AW), they happy to accept logging because it 'may' help mitigate against AW. Now in that I'm very skeptical, myself.
This has been covered before. Not sure about the 'stops altogether' bit but the general theme has merit.
What if the replanting "stops altogether". VicForests have announced that they will not even honour "one for one" replanting , let alone the three to one requirement of the FSC.
No wonder they have no intention of passing their lowest criteria. (Third "try" failed ).
The Maryvale pulp guarantee goes to 2030. Then they will have plantations ready for harvest and will leave an unfixable devastation.
Sad day when it was discovered that mountain ash makes superior paper.
http://woodpulpagreement.org/
I am advised that we have just signed the TPP, which allows multinationals to sue governments if they pass any legislation which might affect their bottom line. Your taxes at work.....
VicForests so don't impress me. Based on an employee claim: VF are basically never wrong (my words). If they miss detection of threatened species (that are subsequently detected by the public), it's basically down to bad luck not bad management and poor systems.
It doesn't wash for me - it's like a bad work program that never ends and trashes the high country for such minuscule economic benefit (when govt subs and real land restoration are considered).
Clear-felling is ecological vandalism. QED.
The stone age did not end because they ran out of stones. The same idea applies to logging our old growth native forests.Similar threads
